redlobstor
New member
That's a very nice looking tank Michael. Looks like Mangrove root on the right side is it real or fake? Looks real but it's so massive.
Jason
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Caribbean Biotope Seagrass Tank
- Thread starter Michael Hoaster
- Start date
Jason
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redlobstor
New member
Thanks again for the info vlangel.
I tried to go captive-bred whenever I can. You just confirmed what I've already read before about captive-bred seahorses being hard here and the plus side is that there already trained to eat mysis.
Interesting about mixing ponies from different sources never really thought about that before. What source would you recommend?
Thanks Jason
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vlangel
Premium Member
The 2 best seahorse farms are Seahorse Source in FL and Ocean Rider in Hawaii. I am very fond of Seahorse Source because they offer such good customer service and they are more reasonably priced. I bought my 1st pair of ponies from OR and all the rest from SS. My original female Eve is in with the pair of SS seahorses and they are doing well in spite of me mixing sources.
Thanks Jason! The tank isn't back to it full glory yet, but I'm on track. I'm especially encouraged by the shoal grass' recent growth spurt. Looking back only two weeks ago, you can see a big difference. Now it just needs to grow taller. I do hope to have manatee grass again soon as I expect some to be available in the near future. I think these two narrow-bladed grasses look beautiful together. Can't wait!
Yeah, that's a fake root I sculpted to hide a powerhead, in keeping with my no-visible-plumbing-in-the-tank rule. I did a build thread: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2393807
I did a build thread on my fake wall too. There are lots of walls better than mine, but mine is unique because of the gramma caves built in. I seriously doubt I'd have been able to keep a seven fish harem without it. Grammas orient themselves to vertical walls and my fake wall is just the ticket! Here's that thread: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2403722
I also wanted to point out a couple of sea horse/pipefish alternatives: Shrimp fish - they have them at live aquaria. These fish orient themselves vertically to blend in with seagrasses. They are insanely cool and I want them badly but they aren't caribbean. Yellowface pike blenny is a great alternative to pipefish, but with much bigger mouths. I had two that died in QT, thanks to fish sitter deal falling through when I was out of town. I may try to get some more of these. KP sells them.
Yeah, that's a fake root I sculpted to hide a powerhead, in keeping with my no-visible-plumbing-in-the-tank rule. I did a build thread: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2393807
I did a build thread on my fake wall too. There are lots of walls better than mine, but mine is unique because of the gramma caves built in. I seriously doubt I'd have been able to keep a seven fish harem without it. Grammas orient themselves to vertical walls and my fake wall is just the ticket! Here's that thread: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2403722
I also wanted to point out a couple of sea horse/pipefish alternatives: Shrimp fish - they have them at live aquaria. These fish orient themselves vertically to blend in with seagrasses. They are insanely cool and I want them badly but they aren't caribbean. Yellowface pike blenny is a great alternative to pipefish, but with much bigger mouths. I had two that died in QT, thanks to fish sitter deal falling through when I was out of town. I may try to get some more of these. KP sells them.
Pipefish seem very cool, and my tank isn't high flow, so I'd almost be tempted, but I think they'd be so much happier in a seagrass tank like yours. I hope you test them out.
Also I got some of those tiny snails from IPSF.
They are small enough and have the inclination to graze the surface of macroalgae and sponges in my tank. Seems like an important role that none of the many snails I've had in my system would do before.
Also, I was wondering if you ever thought more about the tiny gobies (masked gobies, I think) that you mentioned earlier. I've been eyeballing them with interest myself. My current tank "theme" is tiny peaceful pairs and social fish. See how many of them spawn in-tank.
Also I got some of those tiny snails from IPSF.
They are small enough and have the inclination to graze the surface of macroalgae and sponges in my tank. Seems like an important role that none of the many snails I've had in my system would do before.
Also, I was wondering if you ever thought more about the tiny gobies (masked gobies, I think) that you mentioned earlier. I've been eyeballing them with interest myself. My current tank "theme" is tiny peaceful pairs and social fish. See how many of them spawn in-tank.
Hey taricha!
I think I've given up on pipes, as much as I'd like to try them. It's going to be nothing but bullet proof fish for me going forward. With my emphasis on plants, and the dosing to keep them happy, I'll leave the iffy fish to others.
That's great you got the mini strombus (or whatever they are)! Small is good. Sit back and watch them clean and reproduce!
I am still considering the masked gobies, especially since they reproduce. I'm thinking four or five of them. I'm still looking at a few other small, timid fish before I restart the gramma harem.
I almost forgot, I witnessed spawning this morning! Not long after my main light came on, the female sailfin blenny approached the big male, Leroy, in his barnacle shell. She raised her dorsal and he started flagging like crazy. I thought he was going to chase her away, like he usually does, but he didn't, and she slipped right in the barnacle and disappeared for two or three minutes. While she was in there he sort of spasmed every few seconds. It looked like it was good for him!
I think I've given up on pipes, as much as I'd like to try them. It's going to be nothing but bullet proof fish for me going forward. With my emphasis on plants, and the dosing to keep them happy, I'll leave the iffy fish to others.
That's great you got the mini strombus (or whatever they are)! Small is good. Sit back and watch them clean and reproduce!
I am still considering the masked gobies, especially since they reproduce. I'm thinking four or five of them. I'm still looking at a few other small, timid fish before I restart the gramma harem.
I almost forgot, I witnessed spawning this morning! Not long after my main light came on, the female sailfin blenny approached the big male, Leroy, in his barnacle shell. She raised her dorsal and he started flagging like crazy. I thought he was going to chase her away, like he usually does, but he didn't, and she slipped right in the barnacle and disappeared for two or three minutes. While she was in there he sort of spasmed every few seconds. It looked like it was good for him!
That's awesome! I've seen these called barnacle blennies, sailfins etc. Do you have a species name?
My lawnmower blenny (salarias)- which some people also call sailfin, but it's 6" long so not similar - is currently my only fish that doesn't have a species buddy. I wonder if it's possible to figure out gender on those.
It is confusing, as there are multiple species called barnacle blennies and sailfin blennies. The sailfins that I have are the caribbean variety, Emblemaria pandionis. The males have a very large dorsal fin that they 'flag' as a display.
The barnacle blennies that I have are from Panama, and are also called Panamic Blennies among other things. The species name is Acanthemblemaria hancocki.
As for sexing lawnmower blennies, I don't think they are easily distinguishable. Someone on the web might know. From what I remember, the 'conventional wisdom' on them is only one to a tank. I haven't studied them in a while, so don't take my word for it.
I was just saying in a recent post that my male sailfins have shown no interest in the female. The dominate male chases her away whenever she gets near him. And these fish aren't herbivores. And then I witnessed them spawning this morning!
Like a lot of fish, members of the same species consider each other as fierce competition. Then suddenly a quick truce is declared for a quicky…
The barnacle blennies that I have are from Panama, and are also called Panamic Blennies among other things. The species name is Acanthemblemaria hancocki.
As for sexing lawnmower blennies, I don't think they are easily distinguishable. Someone on the web might know. From what I remember, the 'conventional wisdom' on them is only one to a tank. I haven't studied them in a while, so don't take my word for it.
I was just saying in a recent post that my male sailfins have shown no interest in the female. The dominate male chases her away whenever she gets near him. And these fish aren't herbivores. And then I witnessed them spawning this morning!
Like a lot of fish, members of the same species consider each other as fierce competition. Then suddenly a quick truce is declared for a quicky…
redlobstor
New member
I think I remember reading that basslets are this way to where they have to be separated except for when it comes time to mate.
Jason
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redlobstor
New member
Thank you for this. I only live a couple hours from Fort Pierce. That is where seahorse source is located so I can save on shipping costs by going down there and picking it up and hopefully save the horses from the rigors of shipping as I seen how shipping companies handle packages even ones marked live fish.
This would make for a nice trip with the kids as I could take them to the beach and pick up seahorses at the same time.
Jason
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redlobstor
New member
You're welcome. I'm going to start reading those two threads when I get off of work today. Those Roots look so real in the picture great job.
I will pay special attention to the thread about the grammas and the rock wall. I love keeping pairs and harems of fish. Being I like the Royal Gramma I would definitely be interested in setting up a harem of those.
Eventually I'm going to set up a harem of five to seven flame angels in a tank as reading on fishbase they live in harems of up to seven individuals.
I like the shrimp fish that you're talking about never had any but I want some. I think the way they Orient themselves in the grass is awesome matter fact on my laptop I have for a background a picture of a tank with seagrass an angelfish and some of those shrimp fish.
Jason
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vlangel
Premium Member
Michael, in the last set of pics that you posted, everything is recovering nicely! Its fun to zoom in on your pics to see what can be spotted!
The reddish yellow macro growing on the artificial roots is really cool. It kind of looks like a macro that I have that I call red titan.
The reddish yellow macro growing on the artificial roots is really cool. It kind of looks like a macro that I have that I call red titan.
I'm glad you like my fake roots and wall, Jason. Both of those projects were a PITA, but so worth it. The roots were a challenge, with people questioning my choices left and right. It was a challenge just to hold my tongue sometimes! The bottom line is I'm very happy with the results. And using the back wall in this way is a great way to maximize the space available, and provide safe havens for lots of fish-not just grammas.
There are lots of fish that occur in harems in nature. If we take the time to study up, I think there are many more that could be kept this way in aquariums. Keeping a harem of flames would be amazing. Off the top of my head, I would think that would require a pretty big tank. They all need enough space to get away from it all, occasionally, so they don't get too stressed. I have considered doing a small harem of cherub angels, but I think they are just too boisterous for my peaceful community.
I think shrimp fish would be awesome in a seagrass tank. Unfortunately, there's not much info out there on them, so you'd be in uncharted territory. If the tank was chalk-full of pods and mysis, and you were able to get them to eat frozen food, and you didn't house them with anything too boisterous, I think it could work.
It sounds like you have all kinds of ideas you want to explore. I look forward to seeing what you come up with!
There are lots of fish that occur in harems in nature. If we take the time to study up, I think there are many more that could be kept this way in aquariums. Keeping a harem of flames would be amazing. Off the top of my head, I would think that would require a pretty big tank. They all need enough space to get away from it all, occasionally, so they don't get too stressed. I have considered doing a small harem of cherub angels, but I think they are just too boisterous for my peaceful community.
I think shrimp fish would be awesome in a seagrass tank. Unfortunately, there's not much info out there on them, so you'd be in uncharted territory. If the tank was chalk-full of pods and mysis, and you were able to get them to eat frozen food, and you didn't house them with anything too boisterous, I think it could work.
It sounds like you have all kinds of ideas you want to explore. I look forward to seeing what you come up with!
Thanks vlangel! I haven't heard that macro called that before. I believe it is grasilaria hayi.
Thanks Kevin! I'm really happy with the shoal grass. I'm still having a bit of a diatom problem. Late in the day, it builds up on the blades and starts pearling like crazy. I think what happened is when the sea hares' population exploded, it knocked the mini strombus snail population back a bit, so there are fewer to keep my grasses clean. They should bounce back though. The single molly eats a lot of it but she can't quite keep up, by herself. Also, without the 'hungry' caulerpa soaking up nutrients, more are available to other things-like diatoms.
This is another fascinating aspect of ecosystem building-and management. Too many of any one member of the community throws the balance off. I have literally pulled out hundreds of sea hares! And there are more. I just have to continue to be diligent, removing them every other day, hopefully getting them out before any mature enough to make more babies!
Thanks Kevin! I'm really happy with the shoal grass. I'm still having a bit of a diatom problem. Late in the day, it builds up on the blades and starts pearling like crazy. I think what happened is when the sea hares' population exploded, it knocked the mini strombus snail population back a bit, so there are fewer to keep my grasses clean. They should bounce back though. The single molly eats a lot of it but she can't quite keep up, by herself. Also, without the 'hungry' caulerpa soaking up nutrients, more are available to other things-like diatoms.
This is another fascinating aspect of ecosystem building-and management. Too many of any one member of the community throws the balance off. I have literally pulled out hundreds of sea hares! And there are more. I just have to continue to be diligent, removing them every other day, hopefully getting them out before any mature enough to make more babies!
Chasmodes
Well-known member
Wow! That is amazing. How many did you add or did they come in with macros? I'm curious about how prolific they are. We have some naturally in our Bay and I'd like to have some, but I haven't seen any yet. It could be that where I collect isn't salty enough.
I never added them. They hitchhiked in on something. It was fine when it was just one or two, but once they made babies it was waaaaay too much. I'm guessing they laid around a thousand eggs. Be careful what you wish for…
redlobstor
New member
I have been meaning to ask what would be good fish wise to keep the grass clean. I have heard that bristletooth Tangs are good but they're not found in the Caribbean. I wonder if C. Argi and the filefish would keep it clean.
It sounds like mollies would be good and to my surprise they're actually found in the Indian River Lagoon according to that website that I posted the other day.
Is it still considered a biotope if you try to recreate a lagoon but mix fish that are found in different parts of the Lagoon for example a fish that's found in more brackish water part of the Lagoon and fish that are found closer to the inlet but still in a seagrass setting where its more full strength seawater.
Jason
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So you're going the caribbean biotope route? Obviously I'm stoked, but having been there for a while, I'll say it does kinda limit your options. You could call it a seagrass lagoon biotope (and not say caribbean) and you'll have way more options. Seagrass lagoons occur world wide. Just recently I came very close to doing this myself. Just a thought! Those shrimp fish are not caribbean…
Yep, mollies are caribbean, or floribbean biotope correct, and one of the best utility fish I can name! Their mouths are the perfect size to clean the grasses, as apposed to say, the red lipped blenny, which is the caribbean equivalent of a lawnmower blenny. Plus they are livebearers. They effectively turn algae into feeder fish! I bet a puffer would love that! They are also the only animal I have actually witnessed eating cyano bacteria. They work hardest for you if you don't feed them.
Mini strombus snails are also excellent for cleaning grasses. Indo Pacific Sea Farms is the only source I know for them. C. argi might help too, I don't know. The filefish might nibble at some epiphytes but they don't eat algae. I'm assuming you're talking about the aiptasia eating variety, which isn't caribbean. Unfortunately, they also go after worms, gorgonians and anemones.
Sure, I'd still call it a biotope. Look at mine: royal grammas are hardly considered a seagrass resident, but I believe you could find them there, hanging out by the mudbank. I've seen them in two feet of water under docks. Also remember the seagrass lagoon is the nursery for nearly every fish, so if you start with juveniles, you're good! I've taken a few liberties and the biotope police haven't come around to arrest me yet. I'm pretty close though.
My tank is brackish. I keep it at 1.018 or 25 ppt-the preferred manatee grass salinity. Fish, gorgonians, anemones and sponges all do great in it. Lower salinity actually reduces fishes' work to osmoregulate, making their lives a little easier. I doubt I will ever run a tank at natural seawater levels again. I think turtle grass does prefer higher salinity, between 30-35 ppt.
Hope this helps!
Yep, mollies are caribbean, or floribbean biotope correct, and one of the best utility fish I can name! Their mouths are the perfect size to clean the grasses, as apposed to say, the red lipped blenny, which is the caribbean equivalent of a lawnmower blenny. Plus they are livebearers. They effectively turn algae into feeder fish! I bet a puffer would love that! They are also the only animal I have actually witnessed eating cyano bacteria. They work hardest for you if you don't feed them.
Mini strombus snails are also excellent for cleaning grasses. Indo Pacific Sea Farms is the only source I know for them. C. argi might help too, I don't know. The filefish might nibble at some epiphytes but they don't eat algae. I'm assuming you're talking about the aiptasia eating variety, which isn't caribbean. Unfortunately, they also go after worms, gorgonians and anemones.
Sure, I'd still call it a biotope. Look at mine: royal grammas are hardly considered a seagrass resident, but I believe you could find them there, hanging out by the mudbank. I've seen them in two feet of water under docks. Also remember the seagrass lagoon is the nursery for nearly every fish, so if you start with juveniles, you're good! I've taken a few liberties and the biotope police haven't come around to arrest me yet. I'm pretty close though.
My tank is brackish. I keep it at 1.018 or 25 ppt-the preferred manatee grass salinity. Fish, gorgonians, anemones and sponges all do great in it. Lower salinity actually reduces fishes' work to osmoregulate, making their lives a little easier. I doubt I will ever run a tank at natural seawater levels again. I think turtle grass does prefer higher salinity, between 30-35 ppt.
Hope this helps!
Lately it seems like every time I post something about my tank, it decides to change the thing I just posted about. First it was my sailfins not getting along. They spawned. This morning I mentioned my diatom problem. Tonight, when they are usually at their peak, they appear to be almost gone. I had halted dosing sodium silicate and increased phytoplankton additions, hoping the sponges and tunicates would suck up any excess silicate. Did it work? No clue! Sounds pretty smart though, doesn't it?
I hope you folks don't have the mistaken impression that I know what I'm doing. At best, I'm confidently guessing! (Bring it, Sammy!) To my credit, I'm obsessed with this stuff, so I read a lot. I'm heavily into it, but I'm no expert. I prefer fanatic, or weirdo, please. I love giving out advice. It makes me feel like a genius. I'm not. I'm just some dude, playing the dude… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wfg1c8dyZYM
I really am having a blast, here on RC. I hope you all are having fun too!
I hope you folks don't have the mistaken impression that I know what I'm doing. At best, I'm confidently guessing! (Bring it, Sammy!) To my credit, I'm obsessed with this stuff, so I read a lot. I'm heavily into it, but I'm no expert. I prefer fanatic, or weirdo, please. I love giving out advice. It makes me feel like a genius. I'm not. I'm just some dude, playing the dude… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wfg1c8dyZYM
I really am having a blast, here on RC. I hope you all are having fun too!
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