Caribbean Biotope Seagrass Tank

[Michael Hoaster]

I've noted several threads in this forum, with folks having difficulty growing various macros in their sumps or refugiums. I think the main problem is a lack of commitment to caring for these plants. They are not foolproof. They are not filtration media, meant to fit in a small compartment in a sump. They require bright light and good flow, like corals, but more nutrients than sensitive sps corals need.

So, if you are committed to keeping nutrients low for your corals, you won't be able to grow macros. There is a happy medium in there somewhere, where there is enough nutrients to keep a few macros growing, and few enough nutrients to keep SOME corals happy. At the other end of the spectrum, you can keep nutrients higher and keep lots of macros, but fewer corals.

The more you understand the different plants' needs, the better you can taylor your "macro-filter" to your suit your ecosystem.

 

[Subsea]

Thanks, Sam! I'm getting coralline all over lately.

I'm pretty much winging it with calcium levels, but the coralline growth reveals my "calcium reactor" chamber in the canister filter is working.

I agree with Sam, the plating corraline looks very unique. Would you describe the set up of a calcium reactor section in your cannistar filter?

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks, Subsea.

First of all, I have CO2 regulator and a tank of CO2. I got these for a full size calcium reactor I was running when I had the tank set up as a reef, a few years back. Instead of running the airline tubing to a reactor, I run it to the intake tube of my canister filter. So CO2 gets sucked into the canister filter with incoming water. I put crushed coral (in a mesh media bag) in one of the media baskets. And that's about it. I usually run around a bubble a second, around the clock. I don't shut it down at night as some people do. It may be necessary to do so in a smaller, less heavily planted tank.

 

[Subsea]

Thanks, Subsea.

First of all, I have CO2 regulator and a tank of CO2. I got these for a full size calcium reactor I was running when I had the tank set up as a reef, a few years back. Instead of running the airline tubing to a reactor, I run it to the intake tube of my canister filter. So CO2 gets sucked into the canister filter with incoming water. I put crushed coral (in a mesh media bag) in one of the media baskets. And that's about it. I usually run around a bubble a second, around the clock. I don't shut it down at night as some people do. It may be necessary to do so in a smaller, less heavily planted tank.

Thank you for the explanation of the calcium rector in a cannistar.
I would expect lower pH from carbon dioxide produced by plants during lights out. I suspect this is natural in lagoons and grass flats to see fluctuating pH between day and night.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Right, pH fluctuation isn't too big a concern. The biggest concern is too much CO2 in the water column at night, stressing fish and other organisms. If your fish are gasping at the surface in the morning, you are probably accumulating too much CO2 overnight.

 

[sam.basye]

If you don't mind me asking; what is the overall cost per month to run CO² like you are? Like tank refills and how long they last.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

I'm not sure, Sam.

Let's see, I rent a 5 pound tank for around $17. I guess it lasts for around 6 months, so about $35 a year.

Are you thinking of using a similar setup for your reef tank?

 

[sam.basye]

That's way cheaper than I thought it would be. Way less CO² also. I assume it has a pressure gauge so you know when it's empty.

Who rents them out? Never even realized that was an option.

I'm considering it, as long as it conforms to my laziness.. Haha

I honestly don't remember the last time I did a water change.. Other than the water change clock going off in my head saying I should probably do one. Lol
I've been contemplating re-foaming the top of the wall during a water change intermission, but nervous about it. Soo, that's the other half of my excuse, the other is laziness.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Well that's good to hear. Yes, there are two gauges on the regulator-THAT'S where your money goes-the whole regulator assembly. I have an Airgas store in Boulder. I would think most towns would have a similar thing. Google CO2 tanks Lynchburg, VA.

Very smart of you, taking the "lazy factor" into account. When planning ahead, think the worst of yourself.

Wow, that's amazing you've gotten away without doing water changes! And your tank looks great, so try to remain slack.

What do you want to accomplish with the re-foam? God, I hope I never touch that stuff again! Though I know I'll have to do a better one on the next tank…

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Quick update on the royal gramma issue. It appears that one has turned into a male, and is now challenging the previously only male. They mostly avoid each other, but occasionally they get after each other. From what I've read this is a deadly combination, but, so far, mine haven't gotten too rough. So I wonder if it will get worse and worse, or they will reach some kind of truce. I'll keep an eye on them, but obviously I can't watch all day. I want to call it before someone gets hurt/killed.

 

[nawilson89]

Quick update on the royal gramma issue. It appears that one has turned into a male, and is now challenging the previously only male. They mostly avoid each other, but occasionally they get after each other. From what I've read this is a deadly combination, but, so far, mine haven't gotten too rough. So I wonder if it will get worse and worse, or they will reach some kind of truce. I'll keep an eye on them, but obviously I can't watch all day. I want to call it before someone gets hurt/killed.

I would hope with that much space in the tank they could make a truce. Heck, even Betta fish with enough space and enough breaks in Line of Sight they can live with multiple males in a tank. I've seen three in a 75g for years without death or serious injury.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

That's kind of what I was thinking, nawilson89. So far, their squabbles have been no more serious than any of the females', so it doesn't seem to be a problem.

But, will it escalate? Once things get out of hand, it could be too late. So I'd rather remove one before that, but it's so freaking cool having seven of them!

I guess the ideal scenario for removing one would be for it to be cowering in an upper corner of the tank, so I could easily net it out. Otherwise, it's the trap. I'll keep watching and waiting…

 

[Michael Hoaster]

It's fascinating, delegating landscaping to a fish. Mr Zippy has altered the macro algae coverage immensely. He is doing what I could never do - reduce the caulerpa biomass consistently, over time. The back wall had as much as 2/3 coverage, before Zippy. Now it has about 1/3 coverage. The left half of the DSB planter rocks are now only sparcely covered with macros. He's had the least effect on the right end. I see him graze there but these plants are outpacing his grazing, for now.

The concept of growing an abundant food source in an aquarium, and adding a consumer for it, is super neato. I was thinking about other possibilities, besides plants/herbivores. Looking at caribbean butterfly fish gave me an idea. Grow a bunch of recordia and zoas. They both tend to overgrow. Butterflies eat them. Shazam! How about xenia? What eats that? Star polyps, shrooms, maybe even sponges! Anytime we can provide a built-in natural food source for our charges, we are providing a comfy home for them. And if we do it right, our jobs are made easier.

 

[ichthyogeek]

Hmm...except how will you achieve equilibrium within the system? If Mr. Zippy's still young and has room to grow, and has already managed to cut the biomass in half, then how will you compensate for his insatiable appetite later on when he's all blue? The same applies for all fish really. How many of X food will you need to feed one fish?

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Mmhmm. I'm attempting to achieve equilibrium by dosing nitrate 'nstuff, to accelerate the growth rates of all plants in the system. It's working pretty well, but I agree, this won't last forever. It's been a fun experiment. His effect on the tank has been amazing! If my tank isn't big enough, I wonder what size tank it would require for tang/macro equilibrium. I also wonder, what if my tank had been more overgrown when Zippy arrived, instead of freshly pruned?

So, for now, I am just enjoying watching him eat naturally, and not having to prepare herbivore food, for as long as it lasts. My guess is a year plus. Hopefully, I will have gotten him to eat introduced foods by the time he finishes off the caulerpa.

I could even remove him, if he becomes too devastating to the overall system. I could add another one later, or, there are a couple other caribbean herbivores I wouldn't mind trying. The reason I got him in the first place, was to reduce caulerpa biomass, which he's done. I hope that reducing caulerpa biomass will allow the seagrasses to get more nutrients from the water column. So, this is really for the benefit of the manatee grass, my pivotal species. Ultimately, overall system health and balance are most important, so we'll see!

Thanks, icthyogeek, for the great question!

 

[ichthyogeek]

I thought your initial reason was because you wanted to see a yellow juvenile turn blue eventually?

What other types of herbivores are you considering? All the ones that are coming to mind are invertebrates, which might not be able to keep up with macro growth. Also, are you factoring in the possible macro nests the grammas will make when breeding?

 

[Michael Hoaster]

No. I did not buy the fish for its pretty color. I needed an herbivore to reduce caulerpa biomass. It's a tang I've had my eye on for a while, and caribbean biotope correct.

I'm looking at the green blotch parrot, and the doctor fish, as possible alternatives. With the parrots, you can do more than one, so there's the spawning option.

I have succeeded in accelerating the caulerpa's growth, so it could last longer than I thought. I of course will make adjustments, as things progress. I truly enjoy the journey!

 

[Xeniaamore]

I made some major changes to my seagrass tank yesterday. I added about 3 inches of reef sand where I previously used only natural substrate. This buried about 30% of the ramets. Hopefully they live. I also dramatically increased the flow with a very strong power head. I hate using cyanobacteria remover BC I lose all the natural goodness of the substrate. That is my reason for more flow; a natural remedy to cyano.
Speaking of things that are natural, seagrass tanks are not. They are a constant juggle of biotic and abiotic factors that are so far removed from nature that it is a struggle to keep species that normally live together in the same tank. I commend you for your success

 

[sam.basye]

I was showing my wife Zippy's kind after looking at my screensaver (the atlantic blue tang I took a pic of on our honeymoon) and it led me to your biotope thread to show her Zippy. She said I don't need it... like everything else. lol

This was her reaction to a FTS on here:


My wife "That's his tank??"
Me "Yeah."
My wife "Looks like nature."
Me "That was the goal."
My wife "I guess he achieved it."


Haha, she's right, kudos Michael!

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Nice to hear from you again, Xeniaamore! Thanks for the compliment!

Can you explain what you mean, regarding reef sand v natural substrate? Are you referring to calcerous v silica sand?

I had a brutal, three month struggle with cyanobacteria. I finally gave in and got some Chemiclean. I combined that with four day black outs and finally escaped its slimy grip. I don't miss those days much! Every time I carefully removed cyano from my grasses, they came uprooted-far from ideal!

I hope your increased flow will help. It should, but I doubt it will eradicate it. Please keep us informed. Everybody likes to hear an overcoming cyano success story!

After hearing conflicting info on whether or not to grow macros in a seagrass tank, I think I have settled on it being a good thing. With all the dosing, etcetera I do to to facilitate seagrass growth, it's nice to know there is a buffer of sorts, ready to suck up the accesses. Sure they compete, but they also help prevent less desirable micro algae from moving in.