Caribbean Biotope Seagrass Tank

[Michael Hoaster]

I've got a couple more sponges on order. A ridge sponge and a fan sponge. Maybe I'll have better luck with these.

All attempts at bringing in sponges have failed, even though the sponges that came with my live rock have flourished. I'm pretty sure there is plenty for them to eat. I've decided to up the dose of sodium silicate, to see if that helps. Given there is a fair amount of sponge growing already, there could be competition for available silicate. And then there's the snails. They use silicate to build their shells. And I've got a lot of them.

If upping the dosage is successful, then I think competition for silicates is the problem.

 

[jraker]

I know what you mean about the sponges. Lots of people tend to have a difficult time with sponges that they actually buy, but the ones that hitchhike on live rock do fine. I have some in my reef tank that are super bright and are growing quickly, but I imagine if I added a ball sponge, it would die.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

True that, jraker!

On more than one occasion, I have read that if a sponge is not collected with the rock it is attached to, it is doomed. So far, none of the sponges I've ordered has come with rock, and none have survived.

It seems like collecting sponges attached would be a simple solution, but I'm of two minds on this. On one hand, I'd like to get them attached to rock, and flourish in my tank. On the other, by removing the sponge from the rock, collectors leave behind sponge tissue, so a new sponge will likely regrow in its place, which is much more sustainable.

So what's the solution? I think it's fragging. Does anyone still buy wild collected coral? I'm even seeing macro algae frags now. The time has come for sponge frags! It seems to me, if you've got a sponge growing well, you could prune it and glue the frags to rocks. Give them some time to establish, and they're good to go. Of course it's not that simple. The air issue is a problem. I've also had no luck gluing them to rocks. Sponges seem to defy all attempts at domestication.

I'll keep trying a bit longer, but I think maybe the best way to get sponges to survive is just to get farmed Florida live rock, and ask for "sponge rock".

 

[Michael Hoaster]

I took the scissors to the tallest manatee grasses. They were getting all tangled up with each other. Several blades were in the 4 foot range. A lot of them are getting encrusted with coralline algae too. I'm kinda hoping the tufted joint algae will take up some of that calcium, so the grasses have less. It's doing well, and appears to be growing.

The dictoya has vanished without a trace. I may be the first aquarist EVER to kill dictoya. Makes me feel special. I'm seeing some slight signs of growth from the blue scroll algae. It's a slow grower and keeping it in dim lighting probably makes it slower. One of the fragments in the best light looks to have added a petal. But it is small, barely peaking out around the push pin. But hey, it's growth! As I keep repeating, this one is going to be cool. Imagine a cross between a tree fungus and a plating montipora.

All the other macros are pretty much exploding in growth right now. Why? I'm not sure. I've been dosing ammonia instead of potassium nitrate, for the last month or so. I'm alternating the two forms of iron lately. The CO2 injection continues as well. I haven't done a water change in a while. I'm getting some detritus accumulation. I know it's not pretty, but I think it benefits the bottom of the food chain and the plants as well. In nature, seagrass beds accumulate a ton of it. I did add those micro stars the other day to help straighten up the bottom a little. Cherub Angelfish eat detritus too, so when I get around to adding them, that will help as well.

I have considered adding a caribbean cucumber, but I'm holding off on that. I've kept them before, and they gradually starved. Like keeping a tang in a planted tank, I think they need a really large tank to support only one.

It's strange, looking at reef tanks now. They seem so sterile and artificial to me. And the lengths people go to make their tank water invisible! I prefer my water alive, like in the ocean…

 

[sam.basye]

I took the scissors to the tallest manatee grasses. They were getting all tangled up with each other. Several blades were in the 4 foot range. A lot of them are getting encrusted with coralline algae too. I'm kinda hoping the tufted joint algae will take up some of that calcium, so the grasses have less. It's doing well, and appears to be growing.

The dictoya has vanished without a trace. I may be the first aquarist EVER to kill dictoya. Makes me feel special. I'm seeing some slight signs of growth from the blue scroll algae. It's a slow grower and keeping it in dim lighting probably makes it slower. One of the fragments in the best light looks to have added a petal. But it is small, barely peaking out around the push pin. But hey, it's growth! As I keep repeating, this one is going to be cool. Imagine a cross between a tree fungus and a plating montipora.

All the other macros are pretty much exploding in growth right now. Why? I'm not sure. I've been dosing ammonia instead of potassium nitrate, for the last month or so. I'm alternating the two forms of iron lately. The CO2 injection continues as well. I haven't done a water change in a while. I'm getting some detritus accumulation. I know it's not pretty, but I think it benefits the bottom of the food chain and the plants as well. In nature, seagrass beds accumulate a ton of it. I did add those micro stars the other day to help straighten up the bottom a little. Cherub Angelfish eat detritus too, so when I get around to adding them, that will help as well.

I have considered adding a caribbean cucumber, but I'm holding off on that. I've kept them before, and they gradually starved. Like keeping a tang in a planted tank, I think they need a really large tank to support only one.

It's strange, looking at reef tanks now. They seem so sterile and artificial to me. And the lengths people go to make their tank water invisible! I prefer my water alive, like in the ocean"¦

That's a lot of grass...
(CO reference )

Just remember; when you kill something you think is an easy addition and that you're the only one who ever has - you're not. You may be the only one to openly admit you have though. Lol
I've killed gsp, xenia, and cheap zoa's. Lol you're not alone...

Are you sure you're not staring at that blue scroll so much you're imagining growth?? Haha

 

[jraker]

Just remember; when you kill something you think is an easy addition and that you're the only one who ever has - you're not. You may be the only one to openly admit you have though. Lol
I've killed gsp, xenia, and cheap zoa's. Lol you're not alone...

Exactly. Fungia and favia have died quickly in my reef tank, but acropora and other SPS corals flourish.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks guys. I'm not too bummed. I think it's healthy to admit failure. It doesn't happen that often. It's humbling.

I may have stared at the blue scroll algae enough to believe it's grown. Could be a Colorado thing…

 

[McPuff]

Perhaps I missed this but have you considered the Molly Miller blenny? It has been shown to consume aiptasia and cyanobacteria. And it's a funny little CARIBBEAN fish (very wide distribution in fact). :0)

 

[Chasmodes]

Michael, your tank is amazing. I haven't read every post on here, but have read many of yours from the beginning. When I get more time, I want to go back and study them. I'm interested in incorporating some of your ideas into my tank build. My biggest difference is that my current plan has a sump and that I'll have a heavier fish load. Well, the entire concept is different, but what I mean is your simple approach and letting nature take its course with your tank.

I really love the blennies and the gramma harem too. Another cool blenny would be the pike blenny sold on the site where you've obtained your other fish. I have never kept one, but have read great things about them. Also, that website sells a dartfish which might help full the middle of the water column. Gobies also do well and shouldn't be a problem with your other fish. The cherub angel might be a cool addition too and hopefully wouldn't be a bully.

Good luck with this tank and I will be following. I have some catch up reading to do though to fill in the blanks before I ask any questions. No need to rehash old stuff

 

[Chasmodes]

Perhaps I missed this but have you considered the Molly Miller blenny? It has been shown to consume aiptasia and cyanobacteria. And it's a funny little CARIBBEAN fish (very wide distribution in fact). :0)

Now I did have a molly miller for years, great fish and I agree with that choice!

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks for the suggestion, McPuff.

I've considered the molly miller blenny, but I figured with six barnacle blennies already… I had no idea they eat aiptasia and cyanobacteria! I'll reconsider them.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Welcome Chasmodes and thanks for the compliments!

I'm glad to hear you like the concept of nature's solutions. I had originally planned to have a sump below and a refugium above the tank. But after some thought, I realized they weren't necessary for this type of tank, so I went on a simplification binge. In a world where everything is computerized, I just wanted a very simple aquarium situation, where I could rely on my experience and my giant head, and see if Mother Nature could be employed to "replace" all the gizmos.

Eventually, I'd like to have more fish, but I'm kind of picky, with the biotope thing and many other factors. Right now, I'm patiently waiting for the berghia nudibranchs to take out the aiptasias. Since predation is a concern, I have to wait on new fish.

That Pike Blenny is cool! What have you heard about it? All I've read is what they have on the KP's site. Also, can you tell me more about the Molly Miller? Does it perch and hop, like a lawnmower blenny? Can I have more than one? Herbivore? Omnivore? Anything you could pass along would be great. I've looked at the dart fish as well. It sounds like they live in association with jawfish, which I don't plan to keep. I bet they would adapt nicely to the gramma caves in the back wall.

I'm impressed you plan to read the whole thread! There's some great discussion in there. I look forward to discussing more with you!

 

[sellmecorals]

Not able to see the pics for some reason =(

 

[Chasmodes]

Oh, I understand where you're coming from. I read about the first 30 pages of the thread, then kind of skipped around for updates, and finally cheated to see where you are today Now I need to go back and find what I missed.

Pike Blennies: I think that they're similar in behavior and diet to your barnacle blennies, but they have bigger mouths, so I'm not sure if they eat shrimp or not, or even small fish. They don't forage much, rather, they're ambush predators. Males put on quite a show when they have their battles for dominance, but they're all bark and no bite. Other than that, not aggressive to other fish that they can't swallow. They find a tube or bottle or something that they like to hide in and pretty much hang out there. Check out the "Pike Blenny Ocean Realm" on YouTube.

Molly Millers: I kept only one, so I can't answer about more than one, but I think I remember a site that sells them and they captive breed them. They had a video with literally hundreds in a tank. They are omnivores. Mine preferred meaty foods, but once in a while it would graze on algae. They might be a problem with shrimp. My blenny had its favorite perches and did hop around like a lawnmower blenny. I also had a red spotted hawkfish, and although they did chase each other now and then, they seemed to get along OK with no damage to each other. The blenny can hold its own against larger fish, but it didn't pick on anything other than the hawk but only when it came too close. As far as blennies go, they aren't shy and you'll see them move throughout your tank and find places to perch. My molly miller lived for 4 years until a power outage wiped out my fish. It was nice and fat, and grew to about four inches. It was one of my favorites. They aren't colorful, but they would look really cool, blend in, and feel right at home along with your macros and manatee grass.

I don't know much about dartfish, but I was thinking that they'd fill out the middle of your water column some.

I love the idea of having silversides. You might find some info on the NANFA forum about their husbandry.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Yeah, reading long threads is kinda tedious. I've done it with threads I'm particularly interested in, but not many. Feel free to ask me anything. I consider this a running discussion.

I checked out the NANFA forum. I found some info on silversides. It sounds like they are disease magnets and pretty fragile. Hmm… I'd really like to do a schooling fish, but yikes! This kinda puts me back on blue chromises or copper sweepers.

I also saw your thread. An oyster reef sounds very cool! After setting up this tank, I found some small mussels, but they disappeared. The tank was still cycling and I didn't have much plankton yet. It's refreshing to see someone else doing something other than the same old coral reef!

Thanks for the info on those fish!

 

[Chasmodes]

If I can ever get my tank going, once established, I will try to keep silversides perhaps. I think that the hard part is keeping them alive from the water to the aquarium. Once in a tank, I think that they do OK. I'm lucky that I think that I live close enough to collect them and keep them alive. We'll see. I'll let you know how it goes.

The clingfish that I catch locally are really cool. If you can find a Caribbean species, maybe that might be a neat odd thing to add. They aren't destructive, but their mouths are big for their size, and they will eat whatever they can catch and swallow.

Thanks for checking out my thread. Hopefully I will have something good to share soon. I'm now debating having a sump at all. My problem is what to do about an overflow. I have quite a bit of bracing all the way around my tank, so a C2C would be tough. Your success has me thinking if I need it at all. Maybe I'll save it for a future tank.

By the way, I meant to mention that the picture in your post 1902 is fantastic. I love that little blenny peeking out of the barnacle in the distance!

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Cool. I haven't given up on silversides, but what I read today gave me pause for sure.

Good luck with your tank!

On the overflow/sump question, if you're not putting the filtration in the sump, it has to be in the display. I did it with plants and detrivores and the food chain. What will you do it with? How about plants from the bay? That would be cool!

Thanks for complimenting the photo! I get a good one every now and then.

 

[cHRoNzZe 619]

Amazing looking tank .... I tried to go threw most of your comments/threads and wow I must say I learn a lot just by following this thread, it's great to see a big system with no skimmer(wait Im sure you don't have a skimmer right lol) hard to soak in all this info at once so I'll be stalking your thread for a while... I'm currently setting up a 150 tank for macro's and now I feel a bit more comfortable doing so after seeing how much info is in here... Really enjoy the look of a natural type system

 

[cHRoNzZe 619]

The dictoya didn't make it??? Wow that's a first I had a small piece that went ape $$$T on my display had to get 4 tangs in a 120 to control it .... I think I still have a few small batching growing in my macro tank but I also keep that algae trimmed ...

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks cHRoNzZe 619!

Yeah, there's a lot to take in! A lot of good discussion.

No skimmer, no sump, no mechanical filtration. I am using a canister filter as a multi-reactor, with CO2 injection and calcium carbonate media, bio-pellets for bacteria generation for sponges, and regular bio-media for nitrate generation. The rest is handled by the plants and various food-chain organisms.

A 150 macro tank sounds awesome! Got a thread for it? I'd love to follow along.

Yeah, the dictoya didn't make it. It was a bit ragged when I got it, and my tiny strombus snails just devoured it all in about 3 days. This wasn't that indestructible dictoya that overruns tanks, it was much more delicate and pretty. I have some hope that it may come back, but with the way those snails went after it, I kind of doubt it.