Caribbean Biotope Seagrass Tank

[Chasmodes]

On Cyptic Zone filtration thread in reef discussion, a reasearch paper was linked that indicated the benefit of adding acetic acid as carbon source to ehance macro production. I have done it for about six months and it has worked for me.

I just started following that thread, but I have a lot of reading to catch up on. I found a tunicate in my tank that I didn't know was there. So, of course, I started researching how to keep it alive. It's amazing how the approaches in that thread relate to what Michael and I are trying to accomplish. Much to learn (at least for me, because I'm also learning from you guys).

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks Chasmodes. That's always nice to hear!

 

[Michael Hoaster]

I'm bumping my 'nem hunts up to daily, in full obsessive-compulsive mode. I'd really like to be rid of them! I think if I stay after them for several days straight, I might just get 'em.

I ordered a new metal halide bulb. Lightbulbsdotcom had a free shipping deal. I picked up a 400 watt 5200 K Ushio bulb for forty bucks. It'll be interesting to see if it is brighter than my old bulb. That would be great-brighter light and no additional heat.

I'm really jonesin' for some new fish! Since the blue chromis seem to be too fragile, I'm thinking of getting some chalk bass. They're kind of blue. I'm thinking of adding four or five of them before I add the royal grammas again. I think they'll get along because they don't hang in the same areas. Grammas like the wall and Chalks cruise the sand bed. If anyone out there has experience keeping both these fish together, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Remember when I realized my Barnacle Blennies aren't Caribbean? Well, I've broken the biotope rules again today. I was down at my LFS and came across a nice school-sized group of chromis. They are a mix of yellow and blue and quite pretty in my opinion. They are Vanderbilt Chromis-eight of them. They don't get big and ugly, but I read mixed revues on their aggressiveness. It seems they're best kept in schools. They are also supposed to be very hardy and long-lived.

I guess I'll need to remove Caribbean Biotope from my tank info.

After the Blue Chromis debacle, I have pretty much given up on them, but I really wanted chromis - but not the usual blue greens. I have admired the Vanderbilts before and today was just serendipity. They are in QT, looking very active and curious. They taste every speck passing by.

Assuming all goes well, these guys will go in the display right after Halloween.

 

[Chasmodes]

Cool! It's your biotope now

I think that chalk bass might have mouths large enough to prey on your blennies, but don't have any idea about their temperment. That was my only worry about them. The look cool though.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Right! So it's no longer Caribbean-specific, but it's still a seagrass lagoon biotope. I'll probably try and still keep it as Caribbean as is practical, but it does open up new possibilities!

 

[JZinCO]

Noooooo!

Just kidding. I guess you can refer to it as a Caribeean-analogue or 'themed' tank.

I have mentioned my future plans more than once for a Caribbean tank (I took my 20 gallon down last winter). Now I have a 270 gallon tank whose job will be to collect dust for a couple years.
Because I love barnacle blennies and chromis, I am planning for the Roughhead blenny (Acanthemblemaria aspera) in lieu of the more common barnacle blennies. Same genus and habits. And one or more of blue chromis (Chromis cyanea), purple chromis (Chromis scotti) or yellowtail reeffish (Chromis enchrsysura).

 

[Michael Hoaster]

I ordered another plant - chondria, and a purple sea whip. The chondria sounds pretty cool, with some iridescence as a feature, as well a lot of variation in color. Could be invasive. I say welcome to the party! It's kind of turfy. We'll see what I get.

I wanted to try another gorgonian. This one sounds like an easy one, from the description, but that's what they all say!

These two additions should be a nice injection of color, plus with the racemosa coming back, I'm expecting things to get much more colorful very soon!

 

[Michael Hoaster]

I knooooow, JZinCO.

I think biotopes are awesome and kind of a higher calling, and a great way to really learn about the species of a region. So, it is kind of a bummer to break biotope rules, but in hindsight, I never was super serious about following them. I made numerous infractions, starting with the mini strombus snails, which I still don't know their origin. I just assumed that if they weren't Caribbean, that there was probably a Caribbean equivalent. So I let it slide. I had the barnacle blennies for years before I realized they came from the Pacific side of Panama. D'oh! I brought the aiptasia-eating file fish in as a temp. I'd love to get a small school of those! And I would, but they go after worms, which is a big no-no.

I guess at this point in the project (three years!), my priorities are on the success of the ecosystem, and what characters are available to me to fill all the roles in the show. It's very important to me to 'prove the concept' of my low-tech, Mother Nature methods, I yammer on and on about. I'm still looking for some performers at the bottom of the trophic pyramid. For instance, I'd like to get some mini brittle stars, and I'd take some from any ocean, as long as they're reasonably priced. Indo-Pacific Sea Farms has them, but the price is too steep! I may have a Florida source for them soon.

Buying fish outside of the biotope is the most flagrant foul, I guess because it's more obvious. "I noticed your pods are not biotope-specific", said nobody ever. The Vanderbilt Chromis are just my non-caribbean equivalent of Blue Chromis, which may need to be moved to the no-buy zone, or expert only. I wanted a sturdy, pretty, chromis to fill that upper water column niche. The Vanderbilts should do nicely.

 

[taricha]

Glad you brought up those mini strombus snails again.
Been thinking about them. Versatile algae grazers that will reproduce in a tank and therefore scale up to whatever algae production the tank puts out should be much more sought after, IMO.
Any chance you could give some direction on the source?
Or post some clear detailed close ups of the snails for those who might want to take a whack at chasing down an ID?

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[Michael Hoaster]

Hey taricha! Ah yes, the elusive mini-strombus snails. I first came across these on Indo-Pacific Sea Farms' site, a few years back, when I was attempting a reef tank. They are in Hawaii, so I'm guessing the snails are too. IPSF called them mini strombus, so they must be in the strombus family. However, I don't think they sell them any more. You might enquire with them to see what happened.

Also, I should point out that Cerith snails also reproduce in aquariums, but not quite as prolifically, in my experience. But they are readily available and cheap. I keep both, and I shudder to think what my tank would be like without them! Having new snails hatching all the time means there are many different sizes at any given time, which is very good in a planted tank. Tiny snails are superb macro and seagrass cleaners.

Highly sought after? I'm not sure. Their population swells to plague proportions, which is not a look everyone likes. I've gotten so used to it, I don't even notice them anymore. But some folks don't like to see so many snails in their tank.

This time around, I just happened to notice some in a tank at my LFS. I bought around ten of them. I'm always snooping around, looking for overlooked jewels whenever I'm in a fish store. That's how I found them.

 

[taricha]

Thanks for the lead - awesome!
IPSF had this description in an old page, and no it seems they no longer sell these on the site. I'll inquire directly.
"12 Strombus Grazers tm (Strombus maculatus). The marine aquarium industry's hottest new grazer. Reef-safe, highly active, approx. 1/4 inch shell. These are miniature Pacific relatives of the famous Queen Conch known from Caribbean waters. Hawaiian Strombus Grazers stay small and never exceed about 1/2 inch in length. They are the perfect size for reef aquariums! Many customers report that our Strombus Grazers lay eggs on the front glass, giving rise about 2 weeks later to hundreds of baby snails. An army of small algae eaters working day and night to keep your tank free of problem algae! Of course ours are 100% captive-bred. Grow your own! Add right-side-up to sand at bottom of tank, after acclimation."


and from another defunct page on IPSF
"Species: Strombus maculatus
Taxonomy: prosobranch gastropod mollusc
Maximum size: 1/2 inch
Diet: diatoms, algal films, low turf algae
Method of production: 100% Captive-Bred at Indo-Pacific Sea Farms
Benefit to reef tank: algal grazing and egg production*, cyanobacteria control**
Number of egg capsules produced: 2-4 per spawning event
Number of eggs per capsule: 4-10
Time to hatching: 3-4 weeks
Type of development: benthic, direct (no planktonic phase)
Available in the Mix and Match Special or the Reef Tank Tuneup"

I wonder if they are actually these Columbellids mentioned here...
"Interestingly enough, at least one species has been marketed quite successfully as a herbivore, and indeed this species is a good algae-eating snail. This species, although sold as the Pacific spotted conch, Strombus maculatus, is not that species, and actually is a columbellid snail, probably in the genus Euplica or Pyrene. The taxonomic status of that particular genus is uncertain, but in any case, it is a columbellid, similar to what is illustrated as Pyrene versicolor (Note: the linked image is reversed, the aperture should be on the right) by Abbot and Dance, 1982; p161. This particular species reproduces well in aquaria by laying capsules on the walls of the aquarium. Successful reproduction in aquaria is frequent, and these nice little snails are becoming quite commonly found in marine aquaria throughout the United States."

What you think?

 

[taricha]

Also, I should point out that Cerith snails also reproduce in aquariums, but not quite as prolifically, in my experience. But they are readily available and cheap. I keep both, and I shudder to think what my tank would be like without them!

I've also had ceriths reproduce. Has been awesome. My sand for a year and a half now has had tiny ceriths everywhere.
the reproducers were of this form.

Having new snails hatching all the time means there are many different sizes at any given time, which is very good in a planted tank. Tiny snails are superb macro and seagrass cleaners.

Highly sought after? I'm not sure. Their population swells to plague proportions, which is not a look everyone likes. I've gotten so used to it, I don't even notice them anymore. But some folks don't like to see so many snails in their tank.

yep, 4 kinds of snails that reproduce in my system - ceriths mentioned earlier, stomatella, and hitchhiker chitons (weird & great, they graze glass and rock ONLY UNDER the sand), and limpets (totally slow and useless, don't make a dent in anything - glad they almost got wiped out by asterinas)

My point about in-tank reproducers being undervalued is that a grazer that scales up to algae production is going to make algae management easier (and I'd argue healthier for the tank) than having to chase low nutrient numbers as the control switch for algae.

So yeah, I'm interested in finding different species of algae grazers - especially less picky ones - that can reproduce in a tank. BTW, did you find that your tank could have a hermit or two that occasionally killed snails and your snail population still thrive? Sorry to hijack your seagrass thread to talk about snails no one cares about

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Boy, do I agree! It's much easier to employ multiple, reproducing herbivores, than to keep nutrients low. And in my heavily planted tank, I struggle to keep nutrients HIGH enough.

A couple years ago, I was concerned their population would crash, so I tried a few snail predators, including hermits. Eventually, I came to the conclusion that the snails' population would self-regulate, so I removed them. So, to answer your question, I didn't keep the hermits long enough to find out if the snails could maintain their populations. It wasn't worth the risk to me.

Hijack any time!

 

[taricha]

IPSF says they still have them in limited numbers and this week are throwing a half dozen in as freebies with a $99 order. So they are gettable by inquiry and purchase of a pack.

Everyone says their snails eat cyano. Very few organisms actually eat noticeable amounts of cyano, but something that grazes surface of grass and macroalgae probably eats a fair bit of the stuff. Any thoughts on cyano grazing with these snails or others in your system?

 

[Michael Hoaster]

That's great to here! Nicely done! A half dozen should be enough to get a herd going.

I'm not sure whether they eat cyano or not, honestly. I think I may have some cyano on the back wall, mixed in with the other stuff. So it's hard to tell what they're eating, but I would guess they do eat some. It would be an interesting experiment to remove all my snails, and see what pops up. Probably a lot! I should go back through this thread to see the time line of my big cyano phase and when I added the minis.

I have seen mollies eat cyano, even recently. You just don't feed them for awhile and they remember how to graze naturally. Mollies are the only herbivore that I have personally witnessed, eating cyano. I think a key factor for any potential cyanovore is for them to have little else to eat. Even old, stale flake food is preferable.

I think you are doing it right, adding diversity to your crew. I'm still diversifying too. The more the merrier!

 

[Subsea]

Great discussion on herbivores. Snails in particular. The first time that I received an order from IPSF, I wanted to see the critters up close. Following their directions, I set up a viewing station at my workbench in the garage. By shinning a light thru each bag, changing background from white to black and waiting patiently; I was able to see squiggle things.

You might be a reef addict if you stare into numerous bags to see squiggle things.

 

[McPuff]

I didn't know that ceriths would reproduce so "easily" in the aquarium. I may have to get a couple dozen of these guys. I have never had them in big numbers before so I didn't know how efficient they were/are. Have been focused more on trochus because they tend to be better than astreas and do not die as easily. Turbos have never done super well for me although I do have a few of them now that have lived for over a year (that's a record!).

I definitely realize that my CUC is way too low and needs to be built back up.

Thanks for the info!

 

[taricha]

I posted that pic of the cerith, because I've had about 3 different kinds, and that was the only one that reproduced in my tank.


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[JZinCO]

Thanks for your thoughts. Definitely no hating on this end because you've done well for yourself as a reefer and contributed to the community via your journaling.

I look forward to watching your experience with the chalk basslet when/if you get it. I have heard they are territorial and they are one of those 'last fish added' type of fish (much like the chomis I had mentioned). But, some other authoritative sources have claimed these to be good community fish. Basslets on average are semiaggressive so some might be overly attributing genus-level characterizations.

edit: I missed the whole discussion on CUCs! now to catch up...