Caribbean Biotope Seagrass Tank

Their feeding process does sound balletic! All, while they breath through their anus!

Here is the best article I found on sea apples: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/3/inverts

I agree with Dr. Toonen's assessment of them. I'm sure they catch a lot of particulates, but their gut contents are all phytoplankton basically. So their needs are beyond my level of care.
 
Michael Hoaster said:
Pretty quiet, here in the macro section lately! Me, I have to keep posting. It's therapeutic! And it helps me keep up with all my ideas"¦
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Sorry, been away from the PC for several days. I went on a fishing trip one day, while the others were occupied by family happenings. I'm caught up now. After adding those mysis shrimp, you should have a really fat gramma! How big are the shrimp that you'll be adding?

I like the idea, similar to me adding grass shrimp. In my tank, my numbers of shrimp have dropped. Some of that could be predation, but I suspect that some are dying of old age, then being eaten. I read that they only live about a year, so since most were adult shrimp when I collected them, I should only expect about 6 months or so. I need to keep collecting all winter perhaps, to keep the numbers up. The most I've had at a time in one tank was a couple dozen.
 
Glad you liked the article, Subsea. Good info.

They're sending me adults, so I'm guessing they're in the half inch range, Chasmodes. Yes, I agree, all the fish should enjoy them! I'm also hoping I can maintain a population that will aide in detritus consumption. Ideally, they'll become important members of the crew.

I had some of the shrimp in the one inch range, that brineshrimpdotcom sells. They lasted awhile, but eventually got wiped out. I'm hoping the mysids' speed and small size, combined with heavy macro growth, will allow them to survive predation.

I should have them tomorrow!
 
I like the idea of having a thriving population of shrimp to serve multiple purposes. I'm not sure I could accomplish this in my current set up but I suppose it's possible in a chaeto-filled refugium? Would be a great source of food for the fish. :0)
 
Yeah, McPuff, I'm kind of venturing into the unknown with the mysis. But I have wanted to try them in my tank for a long time. Detritus consumption, live fish food, additional diversity and additional visual interest are all reasons to try them. I think the key to their survival long term is reproduction. From what I've read, they can be prolific. I hope so!
 
I noticed in my 20g high that one of my grass shrimp has a ton of eggs... we will see. If they hatch, I might have to cut off the mechanical filtration for a while. That is, if the mummichogs don't eat all of the new born shrimp first. The blennies used to eat the eggs right off the abdomen of the shrimp and not eat the shrimp. Weird, but the eggs must be a lot more tasty than the adult shrimp.
 
Chasmodes said:
I noticed in my 20g high that one of my grass shrimp has a ton of eggs... we will see. If they hatch, I might have to cut off the mechanical filtration for a while. That is, if the mummichogs don't eat all of the new born shrimp first. The blennies used to eat the eggs right off the abdomen of the shrimp and not eat the shrimp. Weird, but the eggs must be a lot more tasty than the adult shrimp.
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Caviar! Good for them. Too salty for me.
 
Michael Hoaster said:
Glad you liked the article, Subsea. Good info.

They're sending me adults, so I'm guessing they're in the half inch range, Chasmodes. Yes, I agree, all the fish should enjoy them! I'm also hoping I can maintain a population that will aide in detritus consumption. Ideally, they'll become important members of the crew.

I had some of the shrimp in the one inch range, that brineshrimpdotcom sells. They lasted awhile, but eventually got wiped out. I'm hoping the mysids' speed and small size, combined with heavy macro growth, will allow them to survive predation.

I should have them tomorrow!
Click to expand...

With respect to grass shrimp, is it this species? I have collected these in both fresh water and salt water marshes. These feeder janitors are winter hardy and will solve my outside growout production of live food. They are collected from Long Island to the Gulf of Mexico. I will attempt to quick start the process by collecting in the Austin area and adjust shrimp to full strength salt. Mollies and shrimp will be the “apex predators” in their own tanks with macro and pods.

https://www.livebrineshrimp.com/ShrimpJanitor.htm
 
Macro Refugiums Produce Phyto ?

Macro Refugiums Produce Phyto ?

Michael Hoaster said:
Their feeding process does sound balletic! All, while they breath through their anus!

Here is the best article I found on sea apples: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/3/inverts

I agree with Dr. Toonen's assessment of them. I'm sure they catch a lot of particulates, but their gut contents are all phytoplankton basically. So their needs are beyond my level of care.
Click to expand...

Interesting comment on the apples anus. Two days ago, I saw the new Thor movie. Toward the end, Thor comes to the rescue through "œThe Devils's Anus".

Twenty years ago, I read an article by Anthony Calfo on macro refugiums producing a "œtype of phytoplankton". He called them "œVegetable Filters".

This link discusses those dynamics.
http://www.fondriest.com/environmen...ality/algae-phytoplankton-chlorophyll/#algae5
 
The Mysis are in!

Tiny little guys swarming in places, looks natural. Time will tell if they can integrate into the local ecosystem and sustain their population. It looks cool now!
 
picture.php

Seagrass with ulva.

It's cool how it's coming back lately-looks natural. On the bottom, you may be able to make out the female sailfin blenny. She's lighter, like the substrate. She's definitely stalking mysids! There are so many, she can't decide. I couldn't get any decent pics of them.
 
Michael Hoaster said:
picture.php

Seagrass with ulva.

It's cool how it's coming back lately-looks natural. On the bottom, you may be able to make out the female sailfin blenny. She's lighter, like the substrate. She's definitely stalking mysids! There are so many, she can't decide. I couldn't get any decent pics of them.
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I so much like that back wall. What light spectrum is this picture? Is it any differrent than your full daytime lighting.
 
You may be psychic.

You may be psychic.

Michael Hoaster said:
Yes, I think bristle worms would help. I had them in my last tank, and they just got out of hand-they were everywhere! I admit I think they are ugly, and I'm pretty happy that none have shown up. I'm hoping to get some reproducing micro brittle stars instead. Spaghetti and other sand-dwelling worms do capture particulates. I'm trying to diversify my particulate/detritus crew, to see if I can get the buildup to stop. I'm hoping that a diverse crew can accomplish this.

I see in another thread, you are attempting a Chili Coral, in your new cryptic refugium. I look forward to following your progress, as they are another particulate filter feeder that Steve Tyree mentioned in his book. Good luck!

The red tree sponge should be right at home in the dimmer end of my tank. I'm hoping this one is attached to a rock. Otherwise, it is difficult to get the sponge 'planted' in a stable position. Given that hitchhiker live rock sponges have done well in my tank, I think there is plenty of food for them to eat.

The duster clusters and sponge should be here tomorrow. Stoked!
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With respect to Chilli, a rock wall crash on the first night started a ripple effect that put him in my unlit refugium, mud cryptic refugium. Mostly due to neglect on a 25 year old 6" deep Jaubert Plenum I am dealing with much detritus as I gradually siphon sandbed down. A 120G new build will not see a 6" sandbed. I am not interested in de-nitrification chemistry. I want nitrogen to go into growing desirable biomass. Instead, I will copy cat PaulB. Reverse flow undergravel filter with 2" of aroggonite sandbed.
 
Video would be great, Pandagobyguy! I couldn't get a good focus on them for stills, but I'll give it a try. I read a few things, but nothing worth noting. They did appear to be feeding on detritus on the bottom, which is good, and the reason I got them. They look so natural!

Thanks Subsea, the wall is coming along nicely. The new MH bulb is 5200K, which is noticeably yellower than the 5500K it replaced, but brighter. Other than a lunar LED for nighttime, that is my only light source.
 
It looks like my shoal grass is finally putting up new shoots! As usual it's a mystery. My theory is that the shoal grass actually LIKED hypo salinity, while my manatee grass died. When I brought salinity back up, it took months to readjust, and now it's ready to grow again. I'm still toying with 'the soup' dosing-wise. As plant biomass increases, I'm dealing with a 'bigger mouth to feed', so I have to stay on top of dosing.

I really love plants, and how they fit into ecosystems. This whole ecosystem approach is so much fun! Now I have these cool, tiny shrimp. Will they survive and reproduce? Will they impact detritus buildup? I'm already seeing hunting behavior in the female sailfin blenny. So fun to watch! She doesn't appear to be fast enough to catch any, but I imagine she succeeds occasionally.

I still have a bit of a diatom bloom, but it seems to be diminishing. Between the back wall, the seagrass and ulva, I'm seeing a welcome return of green to the tank's color palate. Greens make the reds look better, reds make the greens look better.
 
Christmas colors: Red & Green

Christmas colors: Red & Green

Michael Hoaster said:
It looks like my shoal grass is finally putting up new shoots! As usual it's a mystery. My theory is that the shoal grass actually LIKED hypo salinity, while my manatee grass died. When I brought salinity back up, it took months to readjust, and now it's ready to grow again. I'm still toying with 'the soup' dosing-wise. As plant biomass increases, I'm dealing with a 'bigger mouth to feed', so I have to stay on top of dosing.

I really love plants, and how they fit into ecosystems. This whole ecosystem approach is so much fun! Now I have these cool, tiny shrimp. Will they survive and reproduce? Will they impact detritus buildup? I'm already seeing hunting behavior in the female sailfin blenny. So fun to watch! She doesn't appear to be fast enough to catch any, but I imagine she succeeds occasionally.

I still have a bit of a diatom bloom, but it seems to be diminishing. Between the back wall, the seagrass and ulva, I'm seeing a welcome return of green to the tank's color palate. Greens make the reds look better, reds make the greens look better.
Click to expand...

Favorite colors.
 
I read that culturing mysis requires pods or other mysis to eat. So I didn't attempt any.
I'll have to read the sea apple info.
Cucumbers are also talked about as sensitive time bombs, but mine (common cuke from KP) has been a model citizen, great worker, and survived tank overheating disaster that killed most of the fish.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
It was a pretty cheap experiment. I found a place nearby to sell me some. They are cannibalistic but also eat detritus. I've got plenty of pods as well. I feed the tank frozen mysis, rotifers, cyclops and some other plankton, so I'm guessing they will get some of that. This is good, since the tiny barnacle blennies go after the larger frozen mysis. I have added two new nassarius snails for excess food clean up too.

I'm not certain mysis will survive long term, but I've wanted to try them forever. I think they would make a excellent addition to the crew. I do think there is room in the trophic structure of the system for them. I just don't know if they can match predation with reproduction, given that ALL the fish eat them. But hey, I've got pods all over, so who knows!

Yes, I agree Taricha-cucumbers often starve to death, but like the sea apples, it takes years. Unless you have a huge sand bed, one should be plenty. I waited for the tank to accumulate a lot of detritus, before adding mine. It was hard not to tidy up but I think allowing some buildup, then adding various detrivores to let THEM whittle it down, was good idea. What a beautiful, lazy excuse! Seriously, I have really enjoyed working on the bottom of the food chain. (Of course I personally don't do any of the actual work)

This way of doing things, employing natural beings, teaches me so much!
 
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