Casper's health is declining

[melev]

So you are saying I should have my hands full for a while. Once the meds arrive (it's 11:35am here), I'll reread what Dan posted and what the packages say to make sure I understand it.

Casper is in the corner of the tank breathing slowly, almost like she's still sleeping. The light over her tank comes on at noon each day, so this isn't unusual although the ambient room lighting is pretty bright right now. I'll do the water change before I try the new meds.

Speaking of which - should I pull casper out in a small container of the water (like a specimen box full), then drain the tank completely and refill? I could then reacclimate her to the newer water. I'm not sure what you meant by 100% water change with her still in the tank.

Btw, I hope this thread helps others in the future, as they read how all of this was accomplished.

 

[LisaD]

yes, unfortunately, you will have your hands full. my tanks are very low maintenance when all is well, but if I am going to heroic efforts to save a fish, the work seems to ramp up exponentially.

Speaking of which - should I pull casper out in a small container of the water (like a specimen box full), then drain the tank completely and refill? I could then reacclimate her to the newer water. I'm not sure what you meant by 100% water change with her still in the tank.

This is what I do when a 100 percent water change is called for, when switching medications or trying to outrun/dilute a parasite.

I'll PM you the track number for the meds.

 

[melev]

One more question, semi-related. How do you keep your equipment clean to avoid cross contamination - pH probe, pipette for refractometer, thermometer probe, etc?

Soak everything in vinegar?

 

[LisaD]

I have separate siphon hoses, buckets (for newly mixed vs. taken out water) and hydrometers. I'm not sure vinegar would do the trick, maybe an overnight soak in 10 percent Chlorox, then a thorough freshwater rinse.

 

[melev]

Wouldn't that damage the pH probe? I was just thinking stuff that I have to use from tank to tank should have a soak in something, to avoid introduce meds into the other tanks, or disease.

Btw, I should have asked this earlier - if Casper and the other horse have Vibrio, what does that say about the water quality in their tank? Does that tank need to run fallow for a while? And how did I not think to ask this sooner?

 

[NanoLurker]

ahhhhh, a subject dear to my heart - avoiding cross contamination! just remember, i'm fighting a protozoa infestation and can't afford to let one of those little beasts get out of my QT tanks. also, cross contamination is something i deal with at work and get paid to avoid so i probably go way overboard.

i admit i'm weird and a glutton for punishment, i usually set up two identical QT tanks. one is the current treatment tank, the second the backup emergency tank. if i need to switch meds or tanks for any reason i simply transfer horse from one to the other then scrub down, sterilize with bleach, and set it back up.

as far as the pH probe is concerned i use those plastic 1 oz. condiment cups. my probe never goes from tank to tank directly, if i have to use several condiment cups so be it, i never dip the same cup in any tank twice. i also use them for the refractometer pipette. you can throw them in a container with bleach and sterilize them for reuse.

edit: i have duplicate/triplicate hoses like lisa and they get sterilized in between treatments as well. to me, hose is cheap and when in doubt i'll throw it away and replace with new.

 

[LisaD]

It might damage the probe - I am low tech with pH test kits, and my pH is usually right on, so I don't test it much.

many people believe in letting a tank with Vibrio lie fallow. however, infection with Vibrio seems to vary with individuals, even in the same tank. the safe thing would be to let it lie fallow, with hyposalinity if possible.

 

[DanU]

Nano's suggestion with the condiment cups is a very easy way to prevent cross-contamination. The more tanks you have, the more this method makes sense. All your basic parameters can be tested this way.

Dan

 

[melev]

Lisa, the meds arrived. Thanks.

I just did a 100% water change, after putting Casper in a bag with her green-tinted water. Of course the make-up water was too warm, so I have a bunch of icepacks floating to get it down near what it was. It is 72.2F. Sg 1.023

pH was 7.0 in the mixing barrel, which isn't unusual when it is full like that. One day I'll figure out a way to aerate the barrel. I added some pH booster to the tank, and it was 8.6 instantly. argh. I waited a bit, and it didn't drop. So I added a little vinegar. 5.6! Back to the booster again, adding a tiny bit at a time, mixing and watching, and finally got it to 7.6 I'm going to leave it alone now.

The whole time, Casper's been floating in the bag dealing with my mad scientist situation. I just opened it up and added a small amount of the water from the tank. I'll do this for the next 20 minutes, then release her. I better float the Kuda as well, so I can release them together.

Now I have to reread the posts to figure out the new medication.

 

[melev]

Here are some images. The meds that arrived, plus my Beta Glucin.

The LFS called and my ghost shrimp are ready to pick up. I'm planning on putting them in a goldfish bowl with fresh water (and Prime), an airstone, and that's it. Right? I never keep freshwater anything, so I'm having to figure all of this out at once. I assume I can sprinkle in some flake food and the beta glucin, or maybe a few pellets. That will get them to eat the vitamin before Casper can eat them, right?

Here's the 100% water change.

It's amazing how much waste was on the bottom of the tank. You don't see it until you siphon. I was looking for obvious chunks, not the light dusting that was siphoned up.

Then trying to cool the water to 72F.

So I just have to figure out the dosages now. Dan suggested 1.5 teaspoons of Triple Sulfa and 1.5 teaspoons of Neomycin Sulfate.

 

[NanoLurker]

marc,

the 1.5 tsp for NFP's neomycin is right, i believe the triple sulfa dosage you listed as 1.5 tsp is too much. check with dan but i believe it should be dosed per label.

as for the ghost shrimp they should be fine that way, they're little jumpers though so i suggest covering the top.

 

[melev]

Good catch! Glad I didn't do anything yet!

Okay, Triple Sulfa 1/4 tsp. Neomycin 1.5 tsp. Got it - and will go mix it up now, unless I'm told I got it wrong again.

 

[DanU]

Okay, Triple Sulfa 1/4 tsp. Neomycin 1.5 tsp. Got it - and will go mix it up now, unless I'm told I got it wrong again.

That would be correct.

Don't forget, when adding the ghost shrimp, to count how many so you will know what is being ingested. Just helpful in case you are wondering if they are eating.

Dan

 

[melev]

Okay, off to mix it up.

 

[NanoLurker]

the ghost shrimp will eat almost anything, cyclopeeze, spirulina, etc. i gut load them pretty good before feeding to the horses.

helpful hint - put your blue ice/etc. in zip loc bags. keeps them clean and if you need to use them in another tank just put them in fresh zip locs.

 

[melev]

Tank is medicated.

The very last 3/8" of Casper's tail seems rotted, and ready to drop off. I just read a post on our club's board stating their horse did the same, and they seemed to believe that was a good thing.

Both horses are released into the tank now.

 

[LisaD]

Marc,

You have been very busy! You're doing all the right things, hope it works out okay and that you can save Casper. Total rot of the tail is not good, but seahorses have been known to recover. A perusal of seahorse.org's Emergency forum has a lot of interesting (and often sad) cases.

Good luck!

Lisa

 

[melev]

Update: After adding the horses to the tank, I was about to leave to get the ghost shrimp. I looked in the tank and the Kuda was lying flat on the bottom of the tank. I stared hard, and it was breathing and its eyes were moving looking around a lot, but I panicked and called Dan to see what he'd advise.

pH was raised up to 7.95, since it was down to 7.1 once the medicine was added. Coincidence, perhaps, but it was too low. Alkalinity was around 6 dKH, so raising it up was safe.

I put the ghost shrimp in a large goldfish jar with RO/DI water, and opened up a Beta Glucin capsule and sprinkled in some of the powder for the shrimp to snack upon. Next I'll add an airstone. After the shrimp have had 1.5 hours to eat the vitamin, I'll put a few in the hospital tank. There are several sizes, and some seem too large to me but who knows...

 

[melev]

The Kuda is laying flat again. I dropped in 4 ghost shrimp, and watched. The Kuda scooted toward it and ate the whole thing in one bite! I figured it would hit it like a mantis and eat it in halves or something. Amazing.

Casper just sat there. I keep hoping this will all work out, but they aren't given me a lot of hope by their lack of activity.

 

[NanoLurker]

hang in there marc, i know it's hard and despite our efforts sometimes it's not enough, but don't lose hope. they can go real quiet on you when they're sick. they kind of retreat into themselves. i mentioned this to someone on the org but if you have any other animals you've probably noticed similar reactions. not much different from humans in a way, when you've got the flu what do you want to do? get up and move around? eat? it's not something i like doing but will actually be doing it tonight with two of my horses - tube feeding. you may want to read up on it

i've had pH drops with neo3 and was going to warn you about them but saw that you were sent NFP's stuff. i've never had that kind of drop with their meds, and i used the combo you're using just last month. strange. i don't know but maybe it's because you had problems adjusting the pH before you added the meds? just a thought anyhow.