Catching your own Reef fish

[BigAirHarper]

I was wondering if anyone had tried this, and if so, how did you do it? I'm an avid lobster catcher however fish seem like they would be much more tricky, especially since I would like to keep them alive and not eat them. Any tips and tricks you can offer me?

 

[r-balljunkie]

I was wondering if anyone had tried this, and if so, how did you do it? I'm an avid lobster catcher however fish seem like they would be much more tricky, especially since I would like to keep them alive and not eat them. Any tips and tricks you can offer me?

i collect at least twice a month. went diving yesterday and caught four fish. I've been at it about a year, and have to tell you it is not easy to catch even the most diminutive fish. the lowly damsel is twice as smart and fast as you in the water. the best fish are usually caught a bit deeper. i start collecting at around 110', and work my way up. when I hit 50', it's time to call it quits and cruise around a bit and enjoy the rest of my dive.

firstly you need special nets. don't bother with sucker guns, or clear plastic nets. materials needed are fine clear nylon mesh netting, 1/4" is ideal. 3/16" is too big for smaller fish. a metal rim/hoop. preference is for stainless steel around 1/8" or less. it cannot be too thick, or you wont be able to form it. handle, something you can attach the hoop to. you can use hose clamps to affix it, or use epoxy to permanently affix it. you'll need thin gage wire as well. use the wire to wrap the frame of the hoop, so you can attach the netting to this on the inside of the hoop. if you put net around the metal hoop, you'll tear em up and end up having to repair them after every dive. I'll try to post a pic if you're interested.

two nets are required to catch a fish. you can flip one net over to poke and prod. when you see a fish you want, you have to read the terrain and see where it will 'want' to go. it's a guessing game. you can't readily 'scoop' a fish up, rather coax him into taking a path where you've set a net at. once you scoop a net you give it a twist to make sure it doesn't get out. we use the yellow bait buckets attached to our BCD to deposit the fish into, keep on trucking.

all said, it's taken me over a year of trying to get to halfway decent. ive done plenty of dives where I blanked. my buddy has the ability to collect what he wants when he wants. I collect what I can get it's hard to discern species when you're at 110' and all the colors are washed out. I don't have the eye to do so"¦"¦..sort out whats keepable when I get it on the boat.

your pushing a rope up a hill when you try to collect on the reef as the fish just dart into a coral head or back into the rocks. ive only caught one fish on the reef (moorish idol). the best bet is on the slope of the reef deeper since the terrain is more in your favor and the best fish are at depths.

when you collect your fish, we tie off at 30-40 feet or so to let the fish decompress. this gives you some time between dives too. some fish come up bent if you collect them at 100' or so. you will have to 'needle' them. this is a skill I don't have, but I've seen it done.


you can also use a set net but this normally requires at least two people.

all said you're gonna spend some money to collect your own fish. you might also require a permit to collect too. we don't require one out here to collect for personal use. it's a lot harder than you think. fish are smart.

good luck

C

 

[BigAirHarper]

Thanks for the info. If you could post a pic of your net that would be awesome. Also, any idea where would be the best here in the state to get the materials to build your own nets like you did? Also, when using the drop net/set net technique, you basically just use the net to create a U or V shape in the water, corral the fish into the net area, wait till he gets in the big net then scoop him out with your catch net. Is this correct? The idea seems complicated to me.

 

[salsipuedes]

Thanks for the info. If you could post a pic of your net that would be awesome. Also, any idea where would be the best here in the state to get the materials to build your own nets like you did? Also, when using the drop net/set net technique, you basically just use the net to create a U or V shape in the water, corral the fish into the net area, wait till he gets in the big net then scoop him out with your catch net. Is this correct? The idea seems complicated to me.

You could try what I've seen my friends do, swimming along with a large diameter cast net open above a reef, and drop both ends at the same time, trapping the fish under it. They collected a few surgeon fish, wrasses, damsels, etc by that manuver. Not sure on the legality so I would check with your local law enforcement / fish & wildlife, especially on collectible species & bag limits. I have used a slurp gun with limited success, seems like its only good on blennies who dart into a crevice or highhats who cant swim well.

 

[keydiver]

I've been collecting for about a year now as well. Its pretty hard to get eh hang of but definitely do-able. I also use mesh netting, but I have a few sized nets that have a clear acrylic frame. They really seem to do that trick.

 

[BigAirHarper]

I've been collecting for about a year now as well. Its pretty hard to get eh hang of but definitely do-able. I also use mesh netting, but I have a few sized nets that have a clear acrylic frame. They really seem to do that trick.

Where did you get these nets with a clear frame?

 

[r-balljunkie]

here;'s my nets. their ghetto fab right now, waiting on some new materials to come in the mail. the tough part is finding the 1/4" mesh nylon netting. there's some shops in hawaii that sell it, and some larger fish netting companies out there. its really important to get the 1/4" mesh.

catch bucket and set net pictured. noticed the catch net is dyed.
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[ackee]

In my experience the nylon mesh nets snag on things. The mesh also tends to close in on itself, making it necessary to actively swoop it down on a fish. This is much less efficient than getting a fish to swim into the net. The reason that so many people use these mesh nets is because there are a lot of them offered for sale, advertised as fish collecting nets. They work best on larger fish that are swimming in the open, and are almost useless for fish that are hiding in rocky cover, as most of them do. The nylon mesh nets are also good for scooping fish off a fence or barrier net.

Getting as fish to swim into the net is best accomplished with nets made from transparent strong flexible vinyl with a screen bottom. The frame is usually about 6 to 8 inches across, with a depth from the opening to the bottom of about 12 to 15 inches. Most reef fishes will hide in a hole or in cover of some kind when pursued. The vinyl net is positioned about where you expect the fish to run when you chase it from its hiding place. As often as not the fish will run straight into the net and become trapped when you quickly bend net, closing off the opening.

I make my own nets using the frame from the kind of nets used in bait shops. I remove the cotton mesh and attach the vynyl bag with its screen bottom. There are a few of these vinyl nets commercially made, though these tend not to be deep enough. Still, they are much better than those stiff nylon mesh things.

I've been collecting fish this way for many years. I learned the technique from commercial fish collectors in places like Curacao, Mexico, and the Keys. Rodney Jonklass told me only fools chase fish. "Let them trap themselves" The late Bob Straughan from Miami was one of the first commercial marine fish collectors. His books on the subject are still available and very useful.

 

[r-balljunkie]

In my experience the nylon mesh nets snag on things. The mesh also tends to close in on itself, making it necessary to actively swoop it down on a fish. This is much less efficient than getting a fish to swim into the net. The reason that so many people use these mesh nets is because there are a lot of them offered for sale, advertised as fish collecting nets. They work best on larger fish that are swimming in the open, and are almost useless for fish that are hiding in rocky cover, as most of them do. The nylon mesh nets are also good for scooping fish off a fence or barrier net.

Getting as fish to swim into the net is best accomplished with nets made from transparent strong flexible vinyl with a screen bottom. The frame is usually about 6 to 8 inches across, with a depth from the opening to the bottom of about 12 to 15 inches. Most reef fishes will hide in a hole or in cover of some kind when pursued. The vinyl net is positioned about where you expect the fish to run when you chase it from its hiding place. As often as not the fish will run straight into the net and become trapped when you quickly bend net, closing off the opening.

I make my own nets using the frame from the kind of nets used in bait shops. I remove the cotton mesh and attach the vynyl bag with its screen bottom. There are a few of these vinyl nets commercially made, though these tend not to be deep enough. Still, they are much better than those stiff nylon mesh things.

I've been collecting fish this way for many years. I learned the technique from commercial fish collectors in places like Curacao, Mexico, and the Keys. Rodney Jonklass told me only fools chase fish. "Let them trap themselves" The late Bob Straughan from Miami was one of the first commercial marine fish collectors. His books on the subject are still available and very useful.

i have a couple of those clear vinyl nets. way to bulky and sluggish in the water.
time is money when your down at 110 feet collecting. i had relatively little success with these nets, and have now been relegated to my kid for beach days, i let him play with them.

the design of my nets is not mines. it comes from my buddy who is literally a 'pro' collector. dont want to name drop but he's one of the best in the biz.

-BUT-

with that said, if the clear vinyl nets work for you, go for it!!! sure there's more than one way to skin a cat.

i do agree with you on the chasing fish aspect, your wasting your time. its all about reading the terrain and the guessing game.


Rhomboids anyone?

 

[ackee]

Bulky and sluggish in the water is hardly relevant when you are not trying to net a fish. The point is to get the fish to net itself. Some fishes can only be captured that way. Take Royal Grammas and Blackcaps. They hover very close to their small hole, usually on the underside of a reef structure. They immediately disappear if you get within 5 feet. The way I caught them when I worked with some Dutch collectors one summer on Curacao in the 70s was to suspend a clear vinyl bag under the hole and probe the with a thin semi-flexible plastic straw that was poked through the catch bag. You had to be fast. Reading the site is vital, I completely agree, but how do you get a small angel or butterfly to swim out of it's lair so you can scoop it up without catching the net on coral?

I've seen people catch many fish with your sort of nets after setting up a barrier net, preferably with a team of collectors, or after using an anaesthetic. That's how I saw them employed in Mexico.

If I had a small kid I'd give him one of the mesh nets to play with in shallow water, but I don't so I'll have to do without that experience. I'd also give my hypothetical pre-schooler that bait bucket. There are much more efficient ways to hold fish than one of those things with the spring loaded door and the floats cut open so they sink.

But, as you say, whatever works for you is the best way to go. In any case, I'm not a professional. I never made my living collecting fish. I just enjoy it as a sport of sorts, helping out various collectors and researchers. I've gotten pretty good at it over the past 50 years, but I recognize my limitations.

 

[r-balljunkie]

I'd also give my hypothetical pre-schooler that bait bucket. There are much more efficient ways to hold fish than one of those things with the spring loaded door and the floats cut open so they sink.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1904881
scroll down
bucket look familiar?

nets too im sure

If I had a small kid I'd give him one of the mesh nets to play with in shallow water, but I don't so I'll have to do without that experience.

Little man knows better than to touch daddies good collecting nets :love1:


i dont want to mince semantics. im just putting it out there for general information because the question was asked, tools of trade TODAY, not 40 years ago :lolspin:. all species require different tactics. by no means am i a pro...but im lucky enough to go collecting with one of the premier collectors in the world, and these are examples of his working tools.

when i first started flailing away trying to catch fish, i made a lot of mistakes, including what to buy.

end of the day, just trying to help out.:wave:

c

 

[ackee]

Sure that bucket looks familiar. It's the same as yours. It's still second rate equipment, which, btw, was in use back in the 60s. It was considered a good idea at the time. Not anymore. Still, they are very cheap (so are the nets) so I suspect that's why they are so ubiquitous, standard issue in an industry where profit margins are very thin, and where a lot of mossbacks cling to stuff they are familiar with, stuff they can buy in any sporting goods store.

I must apologize. After reading your long post I realized that you wrote very clearly that you do not collect on the reef. You collect on the much less structured cleaner slope at the reef front. It's much easier to herd free swimming fishes that do not immediately hole up in the coral. Much of what you collect there is different from the kinds of kinds of fish that inhabit the reef.

Most of my collecting has been reef fishes, collected with much less of an economic imperative. I've collected for myself and for researchers who are usually financed by grants. The other thing is that back when I collected for commercial operators as an unpaid volunteer the prices of some fish that are now pretty low were astronomically high, making tedious collecting methods financially possible.

I'll assume that the comment about the collecting methods I use as being old technology, 40 year old methods, not the tools of today, etc are simply manifestations of ignorance. I get the impression you are rather new at this, and know little or nothing about what serious scientific collectors do. I'm guessing what you are familiar with is only what you have learned at your current location.

I'll be doing some work in the Lesser Antilles next month with a group of pampered well financed researchers. They let me tag along because I know the island extremely well, speak the local patois, am able to dive trimix with low 02 levels, allowing deeper dives, and also because, as an academic, I understand what they are doing. Equipment is state of the art, including collecting techniques. It happens that fish are not the objective next month, but they have been once or twice in the past. I'm not a professional, but I am very familiar with the technology. All of it.

Much of what is new in commercial collecting is what is cheap, what can turn the fastest profit. I fully understand this. Good luck, and don't get bent.

 

[r-balljunkie]

Sure that bucket looks familiar. It's the same as yours. It's still second rate equipment, which, btw, was in use back in the 60s. It was considered a good idea at the time.

do you have a pic of what would be a 'superb' bucket to hold fish at depths? I have very very low expectations of a catch bucket. hold fish, fish dont get out.

wow, the 60's!! have you really been diving/collecting that long. you're definitely seaworthy in my book!

standard issue in an industry where profit margins are very thin, and where a lot of mossbacks cling to stuff they are familiar with, stuff they can buy in any sporting goods store.

First off, whats a mossback? I really need to up my vocabulary.

Secondly, yes you can get a bait bucket at any ole sporting goods store. no secret fish collectors website with secure access to the latest and greatest equipment"¦.just a minnow bucket my friend.
what do profit margins have to do with the original posters question. I'm sure he is collecting for fun, or he wouldn't have posted here. I too collect for fun. if I'm lucky, I help out the guy that's dragging me along to cover some gas money and wear and tear on his boat with what I've caught. unfortunately I have paid him nothing but cash, since my skills aren't there yet there to catch anything desirable and worth shipping. it's all relegated back into my display tank to enjoy.

. Much of what you collect there is different from the kinds of kinds of fish that inhabit the reef.
Most of my collecting has been reef fishes, collected with much less of an economic imperative.

umm, no. going for reef fishies. what else would we be going for? didn't you see the bucket of rhomboids? I have a variety of fish in my tank johnsoni's, ornamental wrasses, scorpionfish, long nose butterfly, flame angel, moorish idol, clowns etc. most of them have been collected at depth. you know fish can actually swim pretty darn deep?

I don't collect for money, I do it because I'm a reef geek and its fun

The other thing is that back when I collected for commercial operators as an unpaid volunteer the prices of some fish that are now pretty low were astronomically high, making tedious collecting methods financially possible.

yes indeed, there's a financial motive now. like I said, I'm doing it for fun. I have a day job as a mechanical engineer"¦.I'm doing OK.

I'll assume that the comment about the collecting methods I use as being old technology, 40 year old methods, not the tools of today, etc are simply manifestations of ignorance. I get the impression you are rather new at this, and know little or nothing about what serious scientific collectors do. I'm guessing what you are familiar with is only what you have learned at your current location.
I'll be doing some work in the Lesser Antilles next month with a group of pampered well financed researchers.

My oh my. you hang out with pampered people? please pass the grey poupon and the caviar.
I hang out with beer drinking, cursing and belly laughing rec divers. we dive a lot, buts it's on regular tank air and nitrox"¦.we are definitely not pampered. I've never said im an old hat at collecting, rather new at it. I'm sorry but no one where I live 'collects' using the nets as you describe. we all use the nets as I described"¦.everyone, everyone, everyone.
is it the only way or means of collecting? no. it's what I am familiar with.
it seems you're a bit more salty ("¦"¦"¦one summer on Curacao in the 70s) than me and offer another method or means"¦.well heck feel free to present it. it's an open forum my friend.
my point is that ive had more success using nylon netting verses clear plastic nets to catch fish. literally day and night when I switched. I used to blank, now I catch fish on every dive.
if you ever pass thru the Marshall Islands, please please do look me up, we can do some diving together, perhaps catch some fish. Boat and tanks are one me.

 :wave:

 

[r-balljunkie]

Daddies little reefing assistant and his play nets. already well versed in the art of snorkeling. He'll be bagging em in no time at all

i go and catch fish at the local beach and lil man and his possey of friends play with them for hours. hilarity always ensues as they argue on who gets to grab the fish out of the net and put him in the bucket

 

[Mrs. Music]

Oh, my, gosh! is he cute!

 

[ackee]

Rball, you seem a trifle defensive and hostile. What's up? Heat and humidity?

A mossback is a term used by American divers to describe someone who has been diving for a long, long time. Like me. I began scuba diving when I was 15, back in the 60s. 'Salty' is a term I'm familiar with from miltary service. It generally referred to extensive time doing sea duty, or just an old guard type, as "The gunny is one salty S.O.B." It's also used to describe the habits of such people, as in 'salty language'. Spending a lot of time on the water over several decades collecting aquarium specimens as I have does not make me salty in that sense. It's essentially a military or nautical term.

The summer I spent on Curacao in the 70s was the only time I collected for a commercial operation. I was in graduate school. Everything we collected was shipped to Europe, where keeping reefs was well established. Reefkeeping was virtually unknown in the US back then. All our reef aquarium methods were developed in Europe long before they were introduced to the US. I don't consider myself 'salty'. Few people in my experience deserve that sobriquet.

'Pampered' was not intended as a compliment. On the other hand there is nothing particularly admirable about getting drunk and eating junk food. Dehydration, bad karma, and gas production. I don't mean nitrox. Speaking of which, I assume you are not using EA at 110 feet.

The nets your son is holding (cute kid) are the commercially sold variety. Not that great. The seams are actually sewed with thread. The hollow aluminum frames are a problem. I regard vinyl nets as a kind of portable fish trap. They require more finesse (I usually have some pate with grey poupon immediately after using them) and do less damage to fish, especially those with barbs and spines. Certainly, they are not best employed for catching fish in great numbers, limiting their usefulness for commercial purpose. But the initial question that began this string had to do with collecting one's own aquarium fish. Those mesh nets were originally developed for catching lobsters in Florida. They still are used that way, and they are excellent for that purpose.

Work on that vocabulary thing and consider expanding your food choices.

 

[r-balljunkie]

Rball, you seem a trifle defensive and hostile. What's up? Heat and humidity?

Nah, I'm smiling Ackee"¦.as long as you're not shooting at me for prolonged periods, I'm OK.
You get used to the heat out here. 85 degrees all year around is not bad at all.

A mossback is a term used by American divers to describe someone who has been diving for a long, long time. Like me. I began scuba diving when I was 15, back in the 60s. 'Salty' is a term I'm familiar with from miltary service.

Got me"¦.I'm an army man"¦only Navy interaction I've had was a good bar fight when I was younger..Marines too if we had the chance. Remember the good ole days, when I guy could get in a bar fight without being brought up on domestic terrorism charges?

nothing particularly admirable about getting drunk "¦"¦"¦. and gas production.

You're starting to sound like my wife. She complains I drink and fart too much as well.

The nets your son is holding (cute kid) are the commercially sold variety. Not that great. The seams are actually sewed with thread. The hollow aluminum frames are a problem. I regard vinyl nets as a kind of portable fish trap. They require more finesse (I usually have some pate with grey poupon immediately after using them) and do less damage to fish, especially those with barbs and spines.

Yes these are commercially available"¦what I have shown here
Do you have a pic of what your're talking about? . That would help out a lot, because this is what I'm assuming you are talking about when referring to clear plastic / vinyl netting with a mesh bottom.



OK OK, I've had my fun. You're pretty witty end of the day, and do take anything ive said with a grain of salt. Thanks for the lively conversation and input on collecting your own fish, as originally posted.


You've burned an hour or so of my day replying back to you, but hey, it's just taxpayers money .


Here is a photo of where I'm getting the net design from. I blanked out my buddies face, privacy reasons.

Here he is on a rebreather going down to 450' or so"¦..scientific collecting.


Once again, look familiar?


Please don't dare call him a hack commercialized fish collector"¦he's a well respected marine biologist/researcher credited with a handful of specie discoveries. im sure some of the grey poupon crowd know of him.

Safe diving to you!!!

 

[yardboy]

Lot's of bragging about how you do it with no pics, dissing other peoples methods as old fashioned while describin stuff you were doing in the 70's.
A drop net, small hand nets and bait buckets, used by a professional collector of many years who has made a good living collecting for research, public aquariums and hobbiests. And kind enough to take me out once a year to collect livestock for my tanks.

 

[Thle009]

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Available for sale???