Certain Corals Seem to Struggle in my Tank

[Patrick Cox]

I have had my SPS tank up and running for about 21 months and I am still having problems with certain corals not surviving. Below is a picture of the typical thing that happens. The coral starts to grow (you can see the base growth below) but then gradually lightens in color and then fades away. (The coral below is much lighter than when I first got it. Also there seem to be fewer polyps.) For a long time I attributed this to low nutrients but over the past few months I have experienced much more algae growth so I don't know how my nutrients could be low with significant algae growth. So I am wondering if maybe it is my light levels. I was running a 6 bulb ATI T5 fixture and then a couple of months ago I switched to an ATI LED/T5 combo fixture. When I switched light fixtures I lost one coral but all others have done well. But at the same time I added several corals and I ended up losing a birds nest and then the coral below is about to die as well. And same symptoms. And this was happening with my old fixture as well. Anyway, sorry to go on but any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[DaddyJax]

Can you give a list of fish? Type of food you feed them and how often? Filtration? WC's and schedule?

 

[watchguy123]

In the simplest response (which means I'm telling you what you already know ). Fading color and loss of polyp extension means less than ideal conditions for that coral. It doesn't appear to be bleaching at the tips and I certainly can't see any evidence of stn or rtn. So it sounds like an unhappy coral basically.

Choices in likely order, without knowing much about your tank and your overall success, would be water parameter specifics and stability. Alk, Calcium and mag, need to be in the zone and they need to be reasonably stable as well. Nutrients, nitrate and phosphates, in particular, need to also be in the zone and like goldi locks issues, not too high and not too low. Flow and lighting are important of course. But your lighting sounds appropriate and flow on little frags unless extremely over or underwhelming are probably not the issue. Pests are also possible but can't tell from your picture well enough but if you look carefully , you should be able to assess that. Bottom line, assess your water parameters, confirm you're in the zone and stable, check your nutrients for appropriate levels. Good luck

 

[Patrick Cox]

Can you give a list of fish? Type of food you feed them and how often? Filtration? WC's and schedule?

Thanks for your reply. Here is some more information.

1. 75G tank, about 21 months up and running
2. 5G WC every week or two. (maybe this is not enough?)
3. I use a filter sock on and off. Always after water change or after blowing algae/detritus off of rocks
4. Good skimmer
5. 1 MP40 pump, 1 Tunze pump
6. Dose 2 part on dosing pumps, add Mg as needed.
7. T5/LED fixture, 4 T5 bulbs on 100% with LEDs on about 25% for 6 hours with LED ramp 2 hours before and after. Par is about 250-300 or so right now.
8. 2 clowns, 1 cardinal, neon goby, possum wrasse, yellow assessor
9. Feed half cube of mysis and half cube cyclopeeze daily
10. Feed some oyster feast periodically.
11. I have used different supplements at times. Not sure if they did much (KZ, Acropower)
12. Parameters... (My parameters are pretty stable)

Temp - 78
Salinity - 1.026
PH - 8.1
Alk - 8.7
CA - 430
Mag - 1275 (this is a bit lower than I shoot for.)
Nitrate - 0.1
PO4 - .02 (I have algae growing so it is likely bringing this reading down)

I have seen good growth on several of my SPS and then some have not done so well. Here are a couple that have thrived in my tank and then a FTS. I just don't know why some have not.

Strawberry Shortcake:

Purple Stylo

Joe the Coral
This coral was put in my tank very early when my nutrient levels were very low. It lost it's color and really never gained that back but it has grown like crazy.

See center for current shot of Joe the Coral (and FTS)... (All of the SPS on the left side of the tank were added back in August because I lost a few corals.)

Thanks again for comments.

 

[DaddyJax]

Ok well, it sounds pretty good to me but I will say, may sound strange, but you may need more fish.
I found that my colors were better and my corals were much healthier when I had a good bioload to support them. I did 10%-15% WC weekly. I assume that your water is RO/DI as well. What do you use for top off?
How much rock do you have? Was it fresh liverock when you started?

 

[Patrick Cox]

In the simplest response (which means I'm telling you what you already know ). Fading color and loss of polyp extension means less than ideal conditions for that coral. It doesn't appear to be bleaching at the tips and I certainly can't see any evidence of stn or rtn. So it sounds like an unhappy coral basically.

Choices in likely order, without knowing much about your tank and your overall success, would be water parameter specifics and stability. Alk, Calcium and mag, need to be in the zone and they need to be reasonably stable as well. Nutrients, nitrate and phosphates, in particular, need to also be in the zone and like goldi locks issues, not too high and not too low. Flow and lighting are important of course. But your lighting sounds appropriate and flow on little frags unless extremely over or underwhelming are probably not the issue. Pests are also possible but can't tell from your picture well enough but if you look carefully , you should be able to assess that. Bottom line, assess your water parameters, confirm you're in the zone and stable, check your nutrients for appropriate levels. Good luck

Thanks for your comments. You can see my parameters above. Can you comments on "in the zone" for Alk, Ca and Mg? I don't measure these often and I can say for certain that I have let my Mg swing from 1300 to 1200 because I manually dose this element and don't measure that often. Alk and Ca are on dosing pumps and I think are fairly stable but maybe I should take more frequent readings until I figure this out. But what would be acceptable movements in each of these elements?

Also, do I need to do larger, more frequent water changes?

Thanks!

 

[Jim Z.]

Hi,

Your tank is still fairly young, but should be able to sustain SPS. How fast does your calcium and alkalinity get depleted? Also, your corals are pale in color so feed more. I was having STN issues this summer and pale colors with ideal water quality. Rod's food dumped in every other day solved the issue. Managing nitrate is an enigma, because low nutrient systems were thought to be the best for SPS as low nutrients mimic the low nutrient content of sea water. And with higher nitrate and phosphate levels, nuisance algae can become established. Unfortunately, our tanks do not replicate the constant influx of bacteria, phytoplankton, and zooplankton that wash through coral reefs every day. Some would argue, including myself, that SPS were colored best when nitrate was up around 10ppm. So feed more and keep up with water changes. When you hit that sweet spot in water quality, your alk and calcium will get depleted at a high rate due to coral growth. My tank requires the addition of alk and calcium every day and alk will drop from 8 to 6 dKh in 48 hours. Calcium drops from 420 to 380 in the same time period. So make gradual changes in feeding and if this seems to be the issue, you will see deeper coloration if your tank is deficient in an essential nutrient...............Jim

 

[Patrick Cox]

Ok well, it sounds pretty good to me but I will say, may sound strange, but you may need more fish.
I found that my colors were better and my corals were much healthier when I had a good bioload to support them. I did 10%-15% WC weekly. I assume that your water is RO/DI as well. What do you use for top off?
How much rock do you have? Was it fresh liverock when you started?

Thanks for your reply. I have been thinking about adding more fish so that might be a good step to take. And then on WC, maybe I need to increase my water changes as I would say I may not be changing enough. Yes, I am using RODI water and I have a Tunze top off system so I think I am good there. My Salinity is pretty stable (1.025-1.026). My tank was started with BRS Pukani dry rock. (I can't remember how many pounds but I am pretty sure it is enough.) I started curing the rock about two years ago and then I started my tank after 10 weeks or so. So my tank has been setup for roughly 21 months and the corals have been in my tank for about 18 months. The only SPS that have survived from the beginning are the Joe the Coral in the middle and the Strawberry shortcake on the right. I have lost many SPS corals in generally the same fashion. They start growing, then they start to fade, then they wither away.

Thanks again for your comments.

 

[DaddyJax]

Ok, I have seen people use dead base rock that looks like yours does right now. I think that it might be an issue. What I have seen done successfully is for them go and get small pieces,2-5lbs of fresh(yes, uncured if possible) liverock and placed in there system.
Increase the WC's to 15-20% weekly for month and then down to 10-15% weekly depending on your fish increase.

 

[DaddyJax]

Also, do you have plenty of snails?

 

[Patrick Cox]

Hi,

Your tank is still fairly young, but should be able to sustain SPS. How fast does your calcium and alkalinity get depleted? Also, your corals are pale in color so feed more. I was having STN issues this summer and pale colors with ideal water quality. Rod's food dumped in every other day solved the issue. Managing nitrate is an enigma, because low nutrient systems were thought to be the best for SPS as low nutrients mimic the low nutrient content of sea water. And with higher nitrate and phosphate levels, nuisance algae can become established. Unfortunately, our tanks do not replicate the constant influx of bacteria, phytoplankton, and zooplankton that wash through coral reefs every day. Some would argue, including myself, that SPS were colored best when nitrate was up around 10ppm. So feed more and keep up with water changes. When you hit that sweet spot in water quality, your alk and calcium will get depleted at a high rate due to coral growth. My tank requires the addition of alk and calcium every day and alk will drop from 8 to 6 dKh in 48 hours. Calcium drops from 420 to 380 in the same time period. So make gradual changes in feeding and if this seems to be the issue, you will see deeper coloration if your tank is deficient in an essential nutrient...............Jim

Thanks for your reply Jim. I am dosing 17ml of Alk and Ca daily and then Mg as needed. To be honest I do not test frequently anymore and I have not evaluated my consumption in awhile so I may turn my pumps off and test to see what my daily consumption is. If I look back over the past 3-4 months, my Ca has been pretty constant around 430 and my Alk has ranged from 8.8 down to 8.3. I just measured this morning and it is 8.3. I think my dosing container got low and I got some air in my dosing line so I was dosing air for a short time and I think my Alk got lower than it was running. Now my Mg has fluctuated more - 1200-1320 - mainly because I manually dose and I don't test frequently.

Let me ask you something on feeding, do you get a lot of algae buildup on your rocks when you are feeding heavily? And do you think Oyster feast will do the trick? I sometimes will target feed the corals with Oyster feast.

Thanks

 

[Patrick Cox]

Ok, I have seen people use dead base rock that looks like yours does right now. I think that it might be an issue. What I have seen done successfully is for them go and get small pieces,2-5lbs of fresh(yes, uncured if possible) liverock and placed in there system.
Increase the WC's to 15-20% weekly for month and then down to 10-15% weekly depending on your fish increase.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "fresh" live rock? So what question do I ask when I buy the live rock? And then should I change out a portion of my rock for fresh live rock? I will increase my water change as well.

And then I think my crabs killed most of my snails so I should probably buy some more snails. Should I remove crabs from tank because they will just kill the snails again? Or are they worth keeping and just dealing with that cycle?

Thanks.

 

[Jim Z.]

Hi,

I've never used oyster feast, but other reefers have used it with good results. Yes, target feed like you would for your LPS corals. If algae gets worse, then cut back the feeding. Small amounts of nutrient additions will work--you just have to wait a while to see the effects. It looks like you have pretty good polyp extension on most of your SPS--feeding should increase polyp extension too. If you test on a regular basis, you will see alk and calcium drop when the corals are actively growing, then just up your dosing to keep the levels optimal. I wouldn't turn off your dosing pumps, just leave them as is and increase the dosing when your parameters' levels begin to decline. I wish that I was using a dosing pump for alk and calcium, my tank is old school for sure.......Jim

 

[DaddyJax]

If you go to your LFS and ask for uncured LR, they will know. When the receive the rock from wherever they get it it is uncured and fresh. Most LFS's will have a system that holds the rock and cures it over time. This is very vital to a stable system.
As far as the snails are concerned, they are something that I would routinely replenish along with small hermits.

 

[DaddyJax]

I wouldnt change out the rock you have unless you just dont like it.

 

[markalot]

I would try something like Reef Roids to feed the tank, a pinch every day should do it. The purple stylo is extremely hardy but should have dark brown skin and brilliant purple polyps. Mine maintains color even if the acros start to pale, so this indicates to me your water has no food available for the corals to feed on.

I'm not sure corals eat Reef Roids directly but it feeds all kinds of critters that help increase their numbers and in turn helps provide more food in the water column.

IMO anyway.

 

[Patrick Cox]

If you go to your LFS and ask for uncured LR, they will know. When the receive the rock from wherever they get it it is uncured and fresh. Most LFS's will have a system that holds the rock and cures it over time. This is very vital to a stable system.
As far as the snails are concerned, they are something that I would routinely replenish along with small hermits.

Thanks. So let me just confirm, you are saying it is very important to buy "uncured" and to NOT buy "cured?"

 

[DaddyJax]

I feel strongly that when starting up a system that uncured is the best way. In your case, I feel the same. The uncured rock will have a plethora of life on it to seed your base rock and thrive along with some life that will die off and add nutrients for the water column and food for the inhabitants you just added and currently have. The reason for the increase WC's for the first few weeks or month is to prevent too much ammonia and NO4 build up.

 

[Patrick Cox]

I feel strongly that when starting up a system that uncured is the best way. In your case, I feel the same. The uncured rock will have a plethora of life on it to seed your base rock and thrive along with some life that will die off and add nutrients for the water column and food for the inhabitants you just added and currently have. The reason for the increase WC's for the first few weeks or month is to prevent too much ammonia and NO4 build up.

OK, that make sense. How much rock would you add? (maybe stated as % of current.) I will likely remove a bit of my current rock to make room for the new.

Would ordering from someone like Tampa Bay Saltwater be a good choice?

Thanks.

 

[DaddyJax]

I would add like 5 lbs at most. Not a big fan of TBSW rock for sps. Its very dense and we(I was born and raised in Tampa) dont have sps corals. Lots of sponges that would die off quickly and cause too much of a spike. Get some Fiji,Tonga, Vanuatu, Marshal Islands, Indo...natural reef rock.