Cirolanid Isopods!?
- Thread starter markush
- Start date
Re: Food!
Re: Food!
every week my sock is full of them and I dump them in a bucket and then into a small fish-holder that I can dump into my hob aquq-fuge.
I used bills-reef and inland aquautics to help stock the fuge and tank with more micro stuff. the hob fuge has cheato and some other alge small bristle worms, mini stars etc....
Re: Food!
every week my sock is full of them and I dump them in a bucket and then into a small fish-holder that I can dump into my hob aquq-fuge.
I used bills-reef and inland aquautics to help stock the fuge and tank with more micro stuff. the hob fuge has cheato and some other alge small bristle worms, mini stars etc....
I’m done! I tried to talk to Richard personally off the forums. He downplayed it saying they are not that bad and “experts†say they will disappear, (That’s contrary to everything I have personally seen published on the web if there are fish present…and he knew I had fish that needed a new home)...and telling me I may want to clarify my quote of him telling me “this is not the bad oneâ€Â…when my quote was accurate and in the proper context. I will say he is a very personable and consummate salesman…rule number one in sales…never ever let the customer believe something is as bad as it truly is.
Like I said, I’m done here in this thread and TBS forum. If you care to you can read the following correspondence between me and Richard and say what you will or just let this thread die. Richards words are in red
Hi Richard, I see you replied to the thread i started about the Cirolanids in the TBS forum. Please don't take this as an attack but Can i ask you why you told me that this is not the bad bug?
I suppose my case is different from most in that i have another tank worth of inhabitants that i needed to go into this new one. I knew I wouldn't be able to let the tank mature as it should and i was prepared to deal with that and the bad crabs and mantis.
But what i had no idea about was bugs like this...forgive me for not being as informed as i could be. But that's why i posted in the forum and asked you personally in emails.
Once the first part was in place i had "The Bugs" so that was just another thing i have to deal with. I have not bashed you or TBS rock because of these but i am bothered because in your email replies you told me this was not the bad bug. Mark
His reply
Mark
When you asked about that bug, I told you it may not be the bad one....as there are several types, so you may want to clarify that statement on RC...
Not to worry about what you post, is what RC is for...if these guys were an issue there would be many threads on them...
as I told you according to the experts on these guys, they will run their course, and disappear.....or catch them, your not going to let a little bug beat ya, are you?
I have never seen one here in the tanks in 30 years....so they must be a very occasional occurrence...or there would be a whole lot more info out there about them...on reef central....yes? try the trap, or net them at night, really no big deal, just another critter you do not want in your tank that has to be removed....think of the alternative, a tank full of purple rock from Fiji, or one with thousands of live critters, good and bad!
Richard TBS
Then a follow up from him asking me to remember his reply to a previous email I sent him.
remember?
if they do not look like the picture..not to worry....no big deal....even if
they are the bad guys, they will not live..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark" <markush2@yahoo.com>
To: "Richard Londeree" <liverock@tbsaltwater.com>
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:04 PM
Subject: Regarding part two
> Hi Richard, my cycle looks about complete and just about ready for part
> 2, BUT i have seen what i believe to be Cirolanid Isopods which came
> with part 1. I did net one and dispose of it hoping it was the only one
> but the next morning i noticed 3 more. What i have are different from
> the one you have pictured only in that the black eyes are smaller on
> mine. But everything i have been able to find in reference to Cirolanid
> Isopods on the net have lumped the large and small eyed version
> together. If this is indeed what i have i am not going to add anything
> else to the tank.
>
> I am doing my best to capture another to get a photo of it but these
> things scatter at the first sign of light. I have knowledge of the
> stinky water method of capturing these but i haven't wanted to do this
> while my tank is cycling. Any input from you at this point would be
> greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks, Mark
My follow up asking him to remember him telling me “it is not the bad one†in reply to a previous email..
Do you remember this one? This is the one i sent pics with.
see below
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark" <markush2@yahoo.com>
To: "Richard Londeree" <liverock@tbsaltwater.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 12:41 AM
Subject: Re: Regarding part two
Thanks for the fast reply...i actually caught and photoed another one tonight and am attaching the pics. When you say they will not live could you explain why you say that?
they starve...
My concern is that...i set up this new tank because my old one has sprung a small leak...so i have fish that need to go into this tank as soon as possible...if these are the baddest of the bad bugs I cannot give them my fish to eat. Thanks again, Mark
plus it is not the bad one!
His final email
yea...
just catch them and all is well...did ya see the trap untamed made?...seems to work well....have they done any thing yet?
I think you are a bit too worried, as these guys are easily caught...would you want any other rock? this is REAL live rock.....
How about a picture of the tank....as I think people would like to see!
Richard TBS
Like I said, I’m done here in this thread and TBS forum. If you care to you can read the following correspondence between me and Richard and say what you will or just let this thread die. Richards words are in red
Hi Richard, I see you replied to the thread i started about the Cirolanids in the TBS forum. Please don't take this as an attack but Can i ask you why you told me that this is not the bad bug?
I suppose my case is different from most in that i have another tank worth of inhabitants that i needed to go into this new one. I knew I wouldn't be able to let the tank mature as it should and i was prepared to deal with that and the bad crabs and mantis.
But what i had no idea about was bugs like this...forgive me for not being as informed as i could be. But that's why i posted in the forum and asked you personally in emails.
Once the first part was in place i had "The Bugs" so that was just another thing i have to deal with. I have not bashed you or TBS rock because of these but i am bothered because in your email replies you told me this was not the bad bug. Mark
His reply
Mark
When you asked about that bug, I told you it may not be the bad one....as there are several types, so you may want to clarify that statement on RC...
Not to worry about what you post, is what RC is for...if these guys were an issue there would be many threads on them...
as I told you according to the experts on these guys, they will run their course, and disappear.....or catch them, your not going to let a little bug beat ya, are you?
I have never seen one here in the tanks in 30 years....so they must be a very occasional occurrence...or there would be a whole lot more info out there about them...on reef central....yes? try the trap, or net them at night, really no big deal, just another critter you do not want in your tank that has to be removed....think of the alternative, a tank full of purple rock from Fiji, or one with thousands of live critters, good and bad!
Richard TBS
Then a follow up from him asking me to remember his reply to a previous email I sent him.
remember?
if they do not look like the picture..not to worry....no big deal....even if
they are the bad guys, they will not live..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark" <markush2@yahoo.com>
To: "Richard Londeree" <liverock@tbsaltwater.com>
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:04 PM
Subject: Regarding part two
> Hi Richard, my cycle looks about complete and just about ready for part
> 2, BUT i have seen what i believe to be Cirolanid Isopods which came
> with part 1. I did net one and dispose of it hoping it was the only one
> but the next morning i noticed 3 more. What i have are different from
> the one you have pictured only in that the black eyes are smaller on
> mine. But everything i have been able to find in reference to Cirolanid
> Isopods on the net have lumped the large and small eyed version
> together. If this is indeed what i have i am not going to add anything
> else to the tank.
>
> I am doing my best to capture another to get a photo of it but these
> things scatter at the first sign of light. I have knowledge of the
> stinky water method of capturing these but i haven't wanted to do this
> while my tank is cycling. Any input from you at this point would be
> greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks, Mark
My follow up asking him to remember him telling me “it is not the bad one†in reply to a previous email..
Do you remember this one? This is the one i sent pics with.
see below
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark" <markush2@yahoo.com>
To: "Richard Londeree" <liverock@tbsaltwater.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 12:41 AM
Subject: Re: Regarding part two
Thanks for the fast reply...i actually caught and photoed another one tonight and am attaching the pics. When you say they will not live could you explain why you say that?
they starve...
My concern is that...i set up this new tank because my old one has sprung a small leak...so i have fish that need to go into this tank as soon as possible...if these are the baddest of the bad bugs I cannot give them my fish to eat. Thanks again, Mark
plus it is not the bad one!
His final email
yea...
just catch them and all is well...did ya see the trap untamed made?...seems to work well....have they done any thing yet?
I think you are a bit too worried, as these guys are easily caught...would you want any other rock? this is REAL live rock.....
How about a picture of the tank....as I think people would like to see!
Richard TBS
I for one see no attempt to decieve or evade on Richard's part, as a matter of fact he seems quite straightforward. If you want sterile rock it is by all means availible out there. If you want abundant life on the rock I guess we know where to find that also, at TBS................CT
Untamed12
New member
I agree, seems like a very balanced discussion to me. I also don't think it is fair to expect that Richard is an expert on every possible living thing that his rock might contain.
When I first discovered the ciranolid attached to my tang, I was pretty upset. Subsequent to that, I've seen ciranolids attached to that same tang twice more, but both times they were considerably smaller than the first one.
The fish continues to show no signs of stress at all. The tang is still the only fish that I've actually seen ciranolids on.
The trap I'm using every night is proving to be reasonably effective, and I've now learned that I can just leave the traps in there overnight and collect my victims in the morning.
So far, I've removed about 30...mostly very small.
I'm now at the point where I'm not very concerned about this anymore. The fish are fine....I have a method that can certainly control the population, if they can actually reproduce (which is unclear)...and there is a good chance that I can eliminate them completely even while there are fish in the tank.
Mark, if you are still listening...just start trapping. My fish seem to be doing just fine. Personal experience here is that these critters aren't the death penalty that they get made out to be.
When I first discovered the ciranolid attached to my tang, I was pretty upset. Subsequent to that, I've seen ciranolids attached to that same tang twice more, but both times they were considerably smaller than the first one.
The fish continues to show no signs of stress at all. The tang is still the only fish that I've actually seen ciranolids on.
The trap I'm using every night is proving to be reasonably effective, and I've now learned that I can just leave the traps in there overnight and collect my victims in the morning.
So far, I've removed about 30...mostly very small.
I'm now at the point where I'm not very concerned about this anymore. The fish are fine....I have a method that can certainly control the population, if they can actually reproduce (which is unclear)...and there is a good chance that I can eliminate them completely even while there are fish in the tank.
Mark, if you are still listening...just start trapping. My fish seem to be doing just fine. Personal experience here is that these critters aren't the death penalty that they get made out to be.
sytanek
New member
I didn't find the isopods to be as much of a hassle as the gorilla crabs and mantis.... I was mostly just dissapointed in my tbs stuff because in a month the dumb things took out almost my entire cleanup crew..including the anemones Richard threw in. I'm not trying to bash the rock, because the rock itself looked really good with lots of sponges and other life, was just extremely frustrated that I lost my entire cleanup crew due to my high number of hitchhikers.
just a note, I was catching at least a gorilla crab or mantis every day, so it definately wasn't from lack of trying.
just a note, I was catching at least a gorilla crab or mantis every day, so it definately wasn't from lack of trying.
Untamed12
New member
To each their own, I suppose. I've kept all the mantis (5), added my old mantis and have made no attempt to remove crabs.
I've seen the mantis attack and kill a gorilla crab. I've also seen a mantis crawl directly through a group of 10 peppermint shrimp without the least interest in them. I've seen a 1.5" fish perch on top of a 1.5" mantis.
I kept a mantis in a 2 gallon tank for 3 years along with a couple of snails and the mantis never once showed any interest in snail killing. (hermit crabs...entirely different story!)
I've also seen a gorilla crab grab a very large hermit crab and drag it away to a presumed death.
My philosophy is that clean up crews are easily replaced.
Your comment on the anemones is interesting. I've not seen a crab or mantis show any interest in an anemone. Did you witness this, or are you speculating?
I've seen the mantis attack and kill a gorilla crab. I've also seen a mantis crawl directly through a group of 10 peppermint shrimp without the least interest in them. I've seen a 1.5" fish perch on top of a 1.5" mantis.
I kept a mantis in a 2 gallon tank for 3 years along with a couple of snails and the mantis never once showed any interest in snail killing. (hermit crabs...entirely different story!)
I've also seen a gorilla crab grab a very large hermit crab and drag it away to a presumed death.
My philosophy is that clean up crews are easily replaced.
Your comment on the anemones is interesting. I've not seen a crab or mantis show any interest in an anemone. Did you witness this, or are you speculating?
sytanek
New member
We witnessed this. I think it was from lack of food, since there weren't any crabs left to eat. I know its not very common, but talking to people in our local club, some others chimed in they have seen the same thing, albeit rare. It seemed to happen if the anemone decided to move close to t he whole in the rock where the mantis or gorilla crabs were living.
I also saw the mantis kill a couple of the gorilla crabs. So I guess you could say they could be a natural predator of them. I agree with the mantis shrimp and the fish thing, I'm guessing this isn't much of an issue if the mantis is a smasher instead of a spearer?
I didn't have to much of a problem catching the mantis shrimp, it wasn't easy but wasn't death. I had a lot harder time catching the gorilla crabs, they seemed to be extremely nocturnal in my tank, and the occasional wake up at 3 am and look at the tank I would find one or two hanging outside their hole.
The rock itself was very nice. I loved how much growth it had on it. I'm not saying people shouldn't buy the rock, just want to let people know my experience so they can better educate themselves before making the decision.
I was expecting the bad hitch hikers, just not near as many as I ended up with, and like I previously mentioned, maybe my batch was just an unlucky one.
I also saw the mantis kill a couple of the gorilla crabs. So I guess you could say they could be a natural predator of them. I agree with the mantis shrimp and the fish thing, I'm guessing this isn't much of an issue if the mantis is a smasher instead of a spearer?
I didn't have to much of a problem catching the mantis shrimp, it wasn't easy but wasn't death. I had a lot harder time catching the gorilla crabs, they seemed to be extremely nocturnal in my tank, and the occasional wake up at 3 am and look at the tank I would find one or two hanging outside their hole.
The rock itself was very nice. I loved how much growth it had on it. I'm not saying people shouldn't buy the rock, just want to let people know my experience so they can better educate themselves before making the decision.
I was expecting the bad hitch hikers, just not near as many as I ended up with, and like I previously mentioned, maybe my batch was just an unlucky one.
don954
New member
I know Interceptor kills crabs and pods, so if you are very concerned with bad bugs, you might want to just beg some interceptor from your vet and wipe out the pod population on these rocks and then re-seed with known good pods...
BTW, my atlantic pork fish loved the small crabs, its his tasty treat. I go down to the inlet and grab a few dozzen from under rocks every month...
BTW, my atlantic pork fish loved the small crabs, its his tasty treat. I go down to the inlet and grab a few dozzen from under rocks every month...
Last edited:
Untamed12
New member
I would disagree most strongly with advice to use interceptor as a way of eliminating "bad bugs".
According to Brian Plankis (who spent considerable time testing this...), interceptor was relatively ineffective against Ciranolids anyway. It only became effective at concentrations that would decimate a lot of other things.
He wrote:
So, what can we determine from these Interceptor tests? First, it appears that at concentrations up to twenty times the concentration recommended for eliminating red bugs (0.006g/gal - 0.05g/gal), 100% of the Cirolanid isopods will survive for at least six hours. The treatment could be modified to last for 24 hours, but this duration caused 100% mortality in amphipods. This is an indication that a significant portion of the helpful crustacean population would die while the Cirolanids would live in a tank treated with Interceptor at up to twenty times the standard red bug treatment level.
Second, at much higher concentrations Interceptor appears effective at killing Cirolanids and amphipods relatively quickly. In my limited tests, Cirolanids experienced 100% mortality in six hours or less when the concentration was 0.081g/gal or higher. While it could be possible to kill Cirolanids in a reef tank at these high concentrations, it would also stand to reason that you would destroy the good crustacean population in your reef tank. Given that my reef tank easily has 2000+ amphipods and countless smaller crustaceans, I can only imagine the cycle caused by the death of a large percentage of them.
According to Brian Plankis (who spent considerable time testing this...), interceptor was relatively ineffective against Ciranolids anyway. It only became effective at concentrations that would decimate a lot of other things.
He wrote:
So, what can we determine from these Interceptor tests? First, it appears that at concentrations up to twenty times the concentration recommended for eliminating red bugs (0.006g/gal - 0.05g/gal), 100% of the Cirolanid isopods will survive for at least six hours. The treatment could be modified to last for 24 hours, but this duration caused 100% mortality in amphipods. This is an indication that a significant portion of the helpful crustacean population would die while the Cirolanids would live in a tank treated with Interceptor at up to twenty times the standard red bug treatment level.
Second, at much higher concentrations Interceptor appears effective at killing Cirolanids and amphipods relatively quickly. In my limited tests, Cirolanids experienced 100% mortality in six hours or less when the concentration was 0.081g/gal or higher. While it could be possible to kill Cirolanids in a reef tank at these high concentrations, it would also stand to reason that you would destroy the good crustacean population in your reef tank. Given that my reef tank easily has 2000+ amphipods and countless smaller crustaceans, I can only imagine the cycle caused by the death of a large percentage of them.
My 140lbs of TBS came full of critters. Good and bad. Im at the 6 month point and I just removed a gorilla crab that was the size of a silver dollar using a commercially available mantis shrimp trap. I read all the posts before I bought from Richard so I knew somewhat what I was getting into. In total, I've removed 2 mantis (one still has his own tank) and probably 40 gorilla crabs. Once I finally removed the Mantis', I would put the gorillas I caught in his tank for them to eat. Now I'm thinking of putting the mantis back in the display tank. He never touched the fish, snails, hermits, or cucumbers in his tank. Only the gorillas. I could use him to eat the rest of the gorillas. Also, Ive not seen the "super sucking, fish gutting, bleach out your tank to kill it" pods in over 3 moths. I had one feed on a clown for about 3 nights. Clown is fine. Had one on a Yellow tang one day. He is fine. Haven't seen one on any of my other 2 tangs, chromis, damsel, clown, hawk, gobie.... you get the point. I also haven't lost anything to a gorilla crab either. Had one nip at an anenome once but that just made it easier to catch him. I have about 8 porcelin crabs (free), anenome (free), 20 corals (free) 2 clams (free) 2 gobies (free) and tons of feather dusters (free). Add that up next time you walk in to buy your LFS and ask for the dead rock @ $8 a lb and all the stuff I just mentioned. All in all, I would do it over again, and I still recommend TBS to anyone who asks. Plus if you dont want to work in your tank, you should by an Aquarium DVD. Cathing a few hitchhikers just make it more interesting.
Someone mentioned a trap that you can make. Care to elaborate on the instructions. I have been slowly getting them out but last night was whack. I caught about 12 of them. No fish in the tank but they seem to be breeding because I do feed the rest of the inhabitants the anemone and the peppermint shrimp. So I may be feeding them also in the process. But any instructions on how to build a trap would be great as my pruned hands need a rest. 
scowii, a trap for a manits or the isopods? I have had real good luck using the bait and grab approach with the mantis. I got a pair of part extractors from the hardware store, it's 24" long and has a grabber that you can manipulate from above. Put some shrimp or krill down in front of the crab or mantis and when they come out grab them. Works real good, the only draw back is that they might get hurt in the grab but I didn't plan on keeping them.
Art
Art
Untamed12
New member
Yes..it is extremely effective. The really great thing is that it traps ONLY ciranolids....virtually nothing else is small or mobile enough to get into the traps.
They are most active just after the lights go out. Eventually, I got lazy and just left the traps in place all night. That worked very well.
It has been nearly a month since I last saw one.
