Clams closed up

one or two looked a little off out of the bag but i attributed this to shipping- but those were the first two that really showed signs first. they all opened under the light- just one or two didnt extend all the way at a small portion of their mantle by their intake. by day three 4 were doing it.
 
I am dipping four of mine with temperature adjusted water. The other three were firmly attached to liverock and I didn't want to risk injuring their foot on top of PM disease.

Since we are all having issues, I think there must have been a pathogen somewhere that has reared its ugly head. I really thought the PM illness was gone with the new aquacultured clams or i wouldn't have risked my six other established clams that have been in captivity for years.
 
You have to dip them Dave, they won't fight it off.

I think they are Maricultured with seawater, not aquacultured.
There is no safety with that.

I thought all these clams are QT'ed for a time from CD.
Cross contamination happened somewhere, this is clearly evident.

What is the stat of this shipment, 70% with PM ?
 
dave- dont pull on the clams- it can damage the bysal glands- use something sharp like a razor to cut the threads as far from the clam as possible- all the reading ive been doing says it is fatal unless treated
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14599134#post14599134 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bigmayreefer
dave- dont pull on the clams- it can damage the bysal glands- use something sharp like a razor to cut the threads as far from the clam as possible- all the reading ive been doing says it is fatal unless treated

I got five of them dipped for ten minutes each and have two more to do tomorrow that are attached to liverock. I was able to get the others OK as they were attached to small rocks from Barry, or to my sand bed still.

I have an 8th clam that has the beginnings of PM as well. I hope the FW dip works.
 
This is an email I sent to Dave earlier.

Dave,

Just opened up the store and you will see that NONE of the clam show any sign of PM and some have been here since Feb 15th. Go figure. :)

Our chemistry is:

CA. 410+
dKh 9-11
salinity 1.022 1.024
pH 7.9 - 8.2
Nitrates <10 ppm
0 Amm
0 Nitrites
RO/DI water
Kent Salt
temp ranges from 76 - 78.5
UV in use.

ONLY thing we put in our clam system is additive for ca and alk. new SW added almost daily due to shipping out clams almost daily. NO fish, corals, shrimp or crabs in our clam raceway. Using 250 DE HOI, 10K

Hope this helps.

Barry
 
i found this a few days ago might be helpful - this is how im treating mine.

Pinched Mantle Disease:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unfortunately, at this time no conclusive evidence for the cause of pinched mantle disease has been found. However, tridacnids can be plagued by a number of microorganisms, and the pinched mantle disease may be the result of an attack by an unidentified protozoan, according to Barry Neigut, owner of Clams Direct. Hopefully, a definitive answer will be found in the future.

Protozoans are a mixed bunch of single-celled organisms, and as is the case with bacteria, lots of these organisms occur in marine environments and can live in/on tridacnids. It seems that, in some cases, these protozoans that live with tridacnids are parasites that don't cause any serious trouble when present in low numbers, but when pinched mantle disease strikes, the end result is almost always death unless it is treated in a timely manner.

This condition causes the mantle's smooth, curving edges to be pinched and contorted. A specimen may look like it is doing its best to stretch out its thin mantle tissue, but the margins just won't extend fully the way they should. According to Neigut, it affects T. crocea most often, with the other species being more resistant, but not immune. And, it can spread to other clams at times and is nearly 100% fatal, usually within a week or two of the first signs. Very bad, indeed! Fortunately, an easy treatment actually works well: an affected clam is given a freshwater dip for approximately 30 minutes in freshwater of the same temperature and pH as the tank from which it came. The only other thing to do is to thoroughly shake the clam for a few minutes while it is submerged in the freshwater to make sure that the water makes its way into all areas of the clam's body and into the spaces between the mantle tissue and the shell.


More examples of pinched mantle disease.

If done correctly, it may take a clam a day or two to show any signs of recovery and re-extend its mantle, and maybe a couple more days to regain a completely normal appearance. This treatment is highly effective, and while it may be stressful, it shouldn't kill any clams that aren't already seriously compromised. It might sound hard to believe that a tridacnid can survive such a long period in freshwater, but you should note that in their natural habitat many live in very shallow water and often become exposed to air at low tide and can end up sitting in the rain for up to several hours before the tide comes back in. Dick Perrin, owner of Tropicorium, also told me a story about putting a few clams in a bucket of freshwater and actually forgetting about them for several hours, but they all survived, too. The pinched mantle condition is consistently fatal unless treated, so even if a freshwater dip is stressful to a clam, you've got nothing to lose by trying.

The freshwater dip works, but Neigut also experimented with the medication metronidazole, a drug usually employed to kill protozoan and bacterial infections in fishes, but apparently it can also treat clams. However, he did find that the clams temporarily lost their bright colors for some unknown reason. The colors reportedly came back eventually, but for a period of several days the clams looked very dull (but not bleached). Very strange, but thankfully it's only temporary.

In any case, metronidazole is readily available to hobbyists, and each product has its own usage instructions. I don't add any sort of drug directly to a reef tank unless there's no other option, whatsoever. However, its use in a quarantine tank, on the other hand, should pose little problem (other than the possible loss of color), and I should also mention that any drug should be inactivated by adding some bleach to the treatment tank after the treatment is finished, before the water is discarded. Again, pinched mantle is almost always fatal, so action of some sort must be taken if you expect a clam to survive, regardless of possible side effects.

sorry for long post-- dont know how to link.
 
I am very sorry to here about everyone's clams I hope this clears up and the dips take affect.

I wanted to give another possible option and see hat everyone thought about it.

I was told some years back when one of my t. crocea clams got PM that a freshwater dip with a couple of cloves of garlic in it is a sure fire way to get rid of PM. Garlic has known abilities to kill many forms of bacteria and it is bacteria that is believed to causes PM...

Maybe somebody will chime in some other thoughts here on yay or nay, but i know I did this and the clam definitely recovered
 
there was a theory going around a while ago the the iron in gfo was acting as a "fertilizer" for the protazoans suspected of causing pm. do all you guys with pm run gfo?
 
I run GFO.

I will post a pic of my clam later, when the lights come on, of how it looks after last nights dip. All I want to do is save this clam. After close inspection of the other, thought to be healthy clam, it may now be showing minor signs of PM. I will post a pic of that too. My T. Crocea that I've had for a while still looks very nice.



Can this spread to other clams?
 
I wonder what hydrogen peroxide would do? I think it's more for infection or bacteria.
 
I'm afraid my two clams have PM as well. One has it worst then the other.
Being new to clams I was trying to figure out what was wrong. I even moved them around thinking they weren't happy where they where.
I saw HOC had posted so I was following to see what would turn up.
Looks like next step is a FWD. I'll let you know how it turns out.
How critical is it to adjust the PH?
 
the metronidazole in a separate tank as a last resort.

I would not suggest using that. We did a lot of work with that med and if you don't find the correct dosage, it will kill some of the zoo.

I have only seen one picture from one of the group that has reported PM. I would like to see more pictures. What you think may be PM, may not be. It could be a acclimation process or many other things.
 
Folks, let's try to get some pictures up of our clams and describe your lighting, alk and calcium, where the clam is placed and what the flow is like. While I have seen clams close up due to irritation from fish/critters, my clams do not look like that, they are just pinching all over, or on one half.

When my lights come on I will get some pictures posted.

My alk is 10.8, calcium 450, lighting 250w and 400w bulbs. Clams on the sandbed or mid-level of the tank. Eight of the 13 have significant pinched mantles in BOTH tanks.

I dipped five of them last night with RODI water that was warmed to tank temps, then put them back in the displays.

I know Barry is very upset about this and doesn't want to do group orders or get bashed, so let's try to be respectful of what he has done for us and work with him for a solution to our dilemma. He has been emailing me with possible problems as to why this happened, but I am at a loss.

FWIW, my other clams I have had in the tank for a long time are all fine.
 
I completly agree Nook

Here are my #'s

CA. 410
dKh 8.6
salinity 1.026
pH 8.03 - 8.17
Nitrates 0
0 Amm
0 Nitrites
RO/DI water
50/50 Mix of Coralife and IO salt
Temp ranges from 77 - 78

2 150w 14k Phoenix MH's
2 130w PC dual actinics

Clams are located on the sand bed 26" below halides
 
Here are my #'s

CA. 420
dKh 8.0
salinity 1.026
pH 8.05 - 8.15
Nitrates 0
Phosphates .02-.03
RO/DI water
50/50 Mix of Reef Crystals and Oceanic salt
Temp ranges from 79.5 - 80

2 x 250w 14k Phoenix MH's
4 x 54 watt T5 Super Actinic, Actinic

My Original clam from ORA is also still doing well
 
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