Clams closed up

New Pics

New Pics

Site Photo
<img border="0" src="http://www.jamiesplanet.com/post_pics/t_5488.jpg" width="800" height="600"></p>

Now:
<img border="0" src="http://www.jamiesplanet.com/post_pics/IMG_5155.jpg" width="800" height="600"></p>

Site Photo:
<img border="0" src="http://www.jamiesplanet.com/post_pics/t_5484.jpg" width="800" height="600"></p>

This is a shot 18 hours after the FWD:
<img border="0" src="http://www.jamiesplanet.com/post_pics/IMG_5156.jpg" width="800" height="600"></p>


Here is apic of the Crocea I've had for a well over a year
<img border="0" src="http://www.jamiesplanet.com/post_pics/IMG_5157.jpg" width="800" height="600"></p>
 
they look allot better today after the 20 min dip last night. this was the second dip 2 days apart. my clams looked exactly like jbarones. letmegrow saw them as well. if they start to make another turn for the worse i will have him drive out and get pics.

i acclimated them by drip method and removed them from the bucket after so as no water from the bags went into the tank.

ca420
dkh 9.0
salinity 1.025
ph 8.2
phosphate 0
nitrate, trites, ammonia 0
run ozone and carbon, but no phosphate remover
3x400w 14k mh over 30" above them. they are on the sandbed as instructed and not in powerful flow. i have observed for countless hours after work and in the middle of the night and see nothing even looking at them. they have responded favorably to FW dips so this leads me to believe pathogen. my maxima, squamosa and crocea ive had for 4 yrs still look unaffected.

i hope this is not taken as bashing - i know crap can and does happen to the best of us all, but i also dont want blame to be solely on the purchasers when this clearly has happened to a huge majority of the shipment. im not angry, and in fact did not say anything about the problems i noticed because i thought it was confined to a possible dormant problem in my system. now that barry is aware of a problem and is trying to help i hope we can all cure the problem with no losses or hard feelings.

im sure this was a rare and isolated incident because CD comes highly recommended- it is afterall why we purchased in the first place
 
Here a couple pics of mine about 18 hrs after first FWD. I know bad pics but the best I could do.

151851P3135821.JPG


151851P3135820.JPG


From the sounds of it I may have to wait one more day and do another dip unless it improves significantly. Sounds right????
 
So how many clams are we talking about here from this order? We ordered 29... how many are healthy...how many not?

HOC 3 retracted, 0 not
 
just be sure to temp match and ph match with marine buffer if you plan on an extended dip. i tryed just swishing them around for a minute or two about 12 hrs before my first 20min dip and they really showed no improvement or got worse, so i figured what the hell and let em sit for a while swishing once on their way in and again on the way out-- today after their second 20 min bath last night they are sooo much better. only the worse one still shows some noticable physical signs. ill let em sit now unless it looks like its making a come back.
 
your two pics definately show what mine were doing. but mine were not as affected as kirbys- his looks like the whole mantle is drawn in.

kirby- did yours start out like jbarones? just one area of the mantle and spreading to the rest?
 
Yes that is how mine started out. The other side is not as bad. I turned him around to get a better picture of what was happening.

Based on the picture should I do another dip at the 24hr mark or wait till 48hrs?

The first dip was 13 minutes. I put him in the bag and shook it for 1 minute, then let it sit in the bag in my sump, and then shook it again for another minute right before I put him back in the tank
 
i dont know- yours looks sicker than mine did. maybe at the 24hr mark. do you ph balance your freshwater? i think its less stressful on them if it matches your tank and you can leave it in longer. i had better sucess after they soaked a while- but im still not out of the woods yet either. maybe barry will chime in he has way more experience at clams than me. i just have been reading and going on gut feeling.
 
Sump’n to do’s clam is also showing PM. Its currently in my tank, and sadly, I’ve dealt with PM before. I had two crocea clams showing PM. One made it, the other didn’t.

I tried several rounds of RO dips. None were successful for more than 2 weeks. At the end, I was literally dipping my clams for an hour, (60 minutes) with no luck. I assume this is due to the clam closing up tightly and not letting the fresh water circulate in between the mantle and the shell, thereby "saving' some of the protozoans that cause this. With this in mind, I lowered the salinity of my clam QT/hospital tank down to 1.015 and kept it there for 2 weeks and treated with metronidazole. The idea being that short baths in RO kept the clam sealed up tight. However, being held in low salinity would allow it to open up and let both meds and hypo saline water into previously untreatable areas of the clam.

The one that survived browned out pretty badly, but recovered after about two weeks.

I used Seachem’s metronidazole at a dose of 1 gram per 12 gallons of water.

I spoke with Barry by phone today about this, and he's just sick about it. But he pointed out some interesting things:

He still has clams from this shipment in his system. They were all kept in the same tank. To date, none of them have shown any signs of PM. His system only has clams in it. No other inhabitants, (no fish, no inverts....just clams) Out of the recent orders he shipped out, (ours and others) only one other person, (not associated with our shipment) has stated they have PM. He called and asked about the clams he had shipped out, he didnt just see who reported issues. His theory, after speaking with several others in the hobby...is that PM is similar to Ich in some regards. Meaning the protozoan that causes PM is present in the clams to some degree, but when a significant stress comes into play, the clam's immune system is depressed, allowing the protozoan to rapidly multiple and cause problems. This makes sense if his clams back in his system are not showing signs of PM, yet some of ours are.

Sumpn2do's clam (and all the others I saw) had absolutely zero contact with Dave/Nanook's system. S2d's went from the water it was shipped in, to an acclimation container floating in my tank, had about a 30 minute acclimation, several water changes, and was placed in my tank. It began showing PM a few days ago.

Tonight I did a 30 minute RO bath. It looks better right now, but based on my past experiances, I expect it to come back shortly.

If/When that happens, the clam will go into a QT tank, and the hypo/metro treatment will begin.

Steve/LetMegrow,

Do you guys have metronidazole in stock? The Seachem containers have 5 grams total, which will treat 60 gallons, so it goes pretty quickly when you replace it daily...

here is a long thread about PM, but has some interesting information in it. You made need to join in order to read, but its worth the hassle....

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7262&highlight=pinched+mantle


Nick
 
Yes, several brands available, I have some that look like horse pills, I am thinking find the Mg of actvie Metro in them, crush them up and let who ever wants some get some.

Kirby buddy, I have never seen one recover from being that far gone. IME everyone else has caught it in time.
 
Just a thought- could a temp swing or rough handling by fedex or something else particular to our specific delivery have caused an issue? I just hope they make it. I guess ill set up a hospital tank just in case things turn south. Put me on the list for some too steve.
 
This may sound crazy or stupid but would a group QT be possible?

A 55 or 75 gallon tank we could all put our clams in and treat instead of several small QT's set up at ten different houses.

Just a thought.

I've got pumps, a heater, and a 150w HQI, eggcrate, and PVC I would contribute just no tank or the experiance with the meds.

I think I will dip again tomorrow and see how mine do if nothing else.
 
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It could work...Barry did it in the thread I linked y'all to.

But......


You're talking about a significant increase in the level of effort.

Whoever does this would need to do larger water changes, (need to do them daily), need to use significantly more metronidazole, and be responsible for more clams.

I've got one small clam to take care of, and thats really about all I have time for right now.

In speaking with Barry over the phone, he stated he has had success with just using RO baths to treat and "cure" (IE no more symptoms) PM. I've only dealt with PM once, and had no luck with just RO dips.

IMO, if you do two RO dips of a decent length of time, and PM returns, start immediately with the Metro. RO dips are stressful to the clams, and if their not working, you're decreasing your chances for its survival. These are also smaller clams, of a less hardy species. Croceas are the hardiest according to Barry.

I'm going to see how S2D's clam does after the 30 minute bath, and if it returns, I'm sticking it straight into QT with hypo/metro.

Nick
 
I agree....It would be a lot of work. I just want to try and do everything I can to save these guys.
 
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