Clams closed up

[maxxII]

How many do you have, what size are they, and how bad is the mantle curling?

Main thing to do IME, is get a QT set up with a heater, some form of water movement, (powerhead is best since the metronidazole will cause the clams to slime up, and bubbles + slime = mess), and a good light source. Maintain the pH, temp, and salinity of the QT and do frequent water changes since metro breaks down pretty fast in the water column.

The smaller tank you use for QT, the less water you need to replace and the less metro you use, but it becomes exponentially harder to keep parameters in place the smaller the tank is.

Nick

 

[kirby_32]

Maybe it is wishful thinking but he seems to be a bit better today. The pics are approx 36hrs after the FWD.

So from here do you think I should do a second FWD? Was also thinking about setting up a small container (1-2 gallons) with tank water, a small pump, and some metronidazole and do an extended dip (1hr). Would this be less stressful and potentially better since hopefully he wouldn't completely close up? If so how much metronidazole for that small amount of water.

 

[jbarone]

I have two clams showing signs. 1 is much worse then the other.
They are 2 1/4 to 2 3/4 in size.
The most recent pics are on page 3


Already started getting QT setup. 10g tank, heater, 150w hqi, power heads. I'll take water from the display to start while I season 50gal of NSW

Do I need a filter or will water changes do.

I need to get the meds too.

 

[jbarone]

Is there somewhere on the IL side I can get metronidazole? Who makes it, what's it look like, ect.....

 

[kirby_32]

here is a pic of the metronidazole. It is a powder.

 

[jbarone]

Where you get ot Kirby_32? I'll check around here.

 

[jbarone]

Nemo's has it so I'm going there. Turns out I had some too from a previous QT but not enough.

 

[kirby_32]

I got it at planet reef

 

[maxxII]

Kirby, read the thread I linked to earlier.

A one hour dip in hyposaline water with metronidazole wont do anything more than a one dip in straight hypos except waste metronidazole.

This is going to be a long haul treatment, not a short quick fix....at least in my experiance. I treated with metro for at least two weeks, changing water every day, adding more metro, and had minor improvements. When I went to hypo, it made an improvement, but I dont know if the metro was helping and the hyposaline is what finished it off, or if the metro did nothing, and it was the hypo that knocked out the infection. I had both going on at the same time, so its tough to tell what the deciding factor was.

Nick

 

[jbarone]

Clam are in QT!

600mg of metro in 8gal of water
ph 8.07
sg 1.026

I'll post pics in a bit.

It may be me but they opened quick and look pretty good.

 

[jbarone]

<img border="0" src="http://www.jamiesplanet.com/post_pics/IMG_5159.jpg" width="800" height="600"></p>

<img border="0" src="http://www.jamiesplanet.com/post_pics/IMG_5160.jpg" width="800" height="600"></p>

<img border="0" src="http://www.jamiesplanet.com/post_pics/IMG_5186.jpg" width="800" height="600"></p>

 

[jbarone]

Doing much better!!

Doing much better!!

24 hours after starting the Metro.

<img border="0" src="http://www.jamiesplanet.com/post_pics/IMG_5187.jpg" width="800" height="600"></p>

<img border="0" src="http://www.jamiesplanet.com/post_pics/IMG_5188.jpg" width="800" height="600"></p>

<img border="0" src="http://www.jamiesplanet.com/post_pics/IMG_5189.jpg" width="800" height="600"></p>

<img border="0" src="http://www.jamiesplanet.com/post_pics/IMG_5190.jpg" width="800" height="600"></p>

 

[maxxII]

The one on the right, (smaller brown & green one) is gaping pretty badly, not a good sign, although they both show less PM.

What is the salinity of your water, what is the pH, what temp are you keeping it at, and how much metro did you use?

Another thing to keep in mind is that less water in the tank means less metro used and less make up water to use in water changes.

Nick

 

[jbarone]

SG is 1.026
ph 7.96
temp 79-80
dosed 600mg to 8gal of water

What is gaping and why is it bad

I was planning on doing a 2gal water change tomorrow and adding another 200mg of metro. Good/bad?

 

[maxxII]

Sorry, should have clarifed.

The incurrent siphon of your clam is gaping open. This is a sign of stress for the clam. It is usually shortened to "gaping".

You're using a little less metro than was reccomended, 0.6 grams as opposed to 0.666 grams for your water volume. Keep in mind metro breaks down quickly. I would suggest cutting your water volume in half, doing as close to a 100% water change that you can, and redosing with a full strength shot of metro each day. I dont know how fast metro breaks down exactly, or at what rate it breaks down, and this is the most reliable way to handle both water quality and metro dosages that I can think of.

If you know a better way to do it, please let us know, cause my method doesnt exactly help the metro supplies go very far.

Nick

 

[maxxII]

Here is a copy/paste of emails from Barry at Clams Direct, (posted with his permission)

Here are the pictures that was sent to Dave awhile ago.

Like I said, I am not defending us but just had to see what was going on so we could address it.

The more I think about it, the more I think that bags got too warm, thus causing stress and then triggering the protozoan which is found in most Tridacnids. Example: Most fish will have some sort of parasite such as "ich" and when stressed then it become present to the eye as white spots on the side of the fish. Was talking with Julian Sprung and Bob Fenner at one of the MACNA I spoke at and they thought that made sense as well. Who knows for sure. The hobby has a LOT of unanswered questions.

Barry

www.ClamsDirect.com
----- Original Message -----
From: nick
To: barry@clamsdirect.com
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:35 PM
Subject: RE: Clams


Barry, do you mind if I post this up on the board?

Nick

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 20:58:16 -0400
To: redd_14@hotmail.com
Subject: Clams
From: barry@clamsdirect.com

This is a message from Barry N. at Reef Central Online Community ( http://reefcentral.com/forums/index.php ). The Reef Central Online Community owners cannot accept any responsibility for the contents of the email.

To email Barry N., you can use this online form:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/member.php?action=mailform&userid=57346

OR, by email:
mailto:barry@clamsdirect.com

This is the message:

Hey Nick,

Sent a note to Dave with some pictures but don't know how to post pictures on RC.

Hey Dave,

Well most of my week-end was busy contacting people and just asking them, "Just a follow up to see how your clams are doing"?

Your shipment really puzzled me so I wanted to do some investigation for my own piece of mind. Some of these people ordered again on this shipment.

Out of 75 clams that was check on as of yesterday and today. (34 orders)

2 showed some sign of mantle separation.
2 DOA
4 die after two weeks

Happy to report that the other 67 are fine. Some of these clams were shipped as far back as Jan 28th.

The ONLY thing I can think in regards to your shipment was that possible FedEx tossed the boxes around or the water might have been too warm with the heat pack. We have found out that it is better if the water in the bags stay a little chilly other than too warm. If they were tossed around or mishandled, then that could have caused a lot of stress. As I can remember some of your group said that they didn't look good from the get go.

AGAIN, am not trying to defend ClamsDirect but I wanted to see if indeed this was a problem on our end so we could address it.

Attached is pictures that I took today of some of our clams that we still have in stock and some of them have been here since Jan 21st ( 8 1/2 weeks) and all look great. We have no fish, crabs, shrimp or corals in our clam raceways.

Wish I knew how to post pictures on RC in that link, but don't know how.

 

[rbnice1]

hmmmm.... Interesting info. Looking at those pics his clams still look great. I got mine from nooks tank 3 days ago and"knock on wood" still look ok. He could be better but I think that might be him aclimating to my system. Gwtting ready to head back out of town so hopefully it will be ok.

 

[Letmegrow]

Brown Jelly Disease. (Protozoan outbreak)

It affects Euphylia - Frogspawn, Torch, Hammer, Anchor etc.

I have seen it many times. The bag water always has been either warmer than need be OR the boxes were mishandled and the corals went for a wild ride.

I don't rule out shipping stress at all, but I never seen it this bad.

________________________________

Maybe we should invent a shipping tool like a turkey temp timer.
If the box gets too hot/warm during shipping it will pop, telling us it got too warm.

I could see how this could be manipulated by unscrupulous people but I think it's still a good idea for those who care.

 

[fazgood]

Too Late... Someone already invented one.

How was the consignment sale?

It's a bit expensive for small oders but larger ones this would be worth it.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Temperature-Reco...b0%2fC%b0_W0QQitemZ330276343014QQcmdZViewItem

Faz

 

[smoothdog]

We used to use data loggers / strip charts like that when I worked in a produce house. They are very accurate and tamper proof and will show the temp for the entire duration of the delivery. The only problem is that you have to ship by temperature controlled courier. It doesn't really do any good to use heat / cold packs if the external temp of the package can swing many degrees as it can in the back of a standard delivery truck. Now if you could come up with a cheap temperature regulating container, then you'd have something!