Clarkii clowns hosting on opposite ends of the tank?

[mope54]

I bought my friend's pair of clarkii's that were hosting in a super huge neon green carpet. When I was finally able to get the carpet out from the tank, both of the clowns jumped in the carpet and rode in it to the bucket.

When I took it out from the bucket to put in my tank, however, one of the clowns slipped out and I had to net him. He was scared and jumped in the mouth of the anenome and stayed in there all night (literally in the bell of the anenome).

About two weeks ago I noticed that the smaller of the pair was hovering around the live rock above the carpet. But the female wouldn't let him back in. When they went to sleep, the male would sleep under the base around the back while the female would sit in the folds of the carpet.

Meanwhile, I have an onyx that is just hovering around the tank. He used to sleep up by the far left corner. Him and the smaller clarkii would swim around each other and tolerate/get along with one another.

So I get an idea: toss a RBTA in for the onyx. Mine is solid black except for the bars, and the RBTA has green at the base. Nice colors, nice contrast, should be great...right?

Not quite...as soon as I put it in on the far left corner, it plants its foot and the smaller clarkii jumps right in! And he won't budge, either. Now the onyx is sleeping by the overflow. Both of my clarkiis are hosting on opposite sides of the tank. So I have a few questions:

In my 90, it doesn't seem like a big deal. But with my 250, will these two clowns both grow into females since they aren't "together" anymore?

Is there anything I can do to get the pair to get together again?

I thought about taking the larger out from the carpet. And/or removing everything except the carpet when I do the tank move and eventually the smaller will try to move into the carpet when he gets scared? (He wasn't even going for it earlier, finding it easier to hide behind the rocks when threatened.)

Or should I just leave well enough alone, buy a couple more clarkiis and try to make two pairs? Buy *another* bubble tip for my onyx?

grr, it seems I have the opposite experience as others in here, my clarkii's see me coming from across the room with an anenome and they'll dive in before I even get it in the water But they won't pair up!

 

[shred5]

First I would not keep a bta and a carpet in the same tank.


But anyway a pair will split allot of times if there is more anemones in the tank... Especially if they do not feel threatened or are the dominate fish in the tank.. I do not believe the female bonds with males she just accepts him.. In the wild a female will have a harem of males. With my spawning pair of onyx clowns that I have right now my female makes the male stay below the anemone and only lets him in sometimes or at night... It is her way of staying dominant and making sure she gets the majority of the food so the eggs get the proper nutrition. My male onyx is only allowed the smallest scraps. Amazing how bad a female clowns treats the male.

I have observed this same behavior in almost every pair of clowns i have ever owned... seems the bigger the anemone though the more the male is tolerated in the anemone. funny thing is if the female ventures even a little distance from the anemone the male is right there by here side.

Seems to me all clowns want to be female if they can. I have dropped another anemone in their tank a few times and the male has left the female.



There is strong possibility they will both become female if left separate like they are...

I would remove the new anemone if you want them to pair.

Dave

 

[phender]

I agree with what Dave said. The fastest way to break up a mated pair is to add a second anemone to the tank.

 

[mope54]

Thanks for the responses.
Would you elaborate on the reasoning for not keeping a BTA in the same tank as a carpet? I tried searching, but came up short...

From what you described, it almost sounds like the pair was doing fine. But there was a distinct shift from earlier, when both clowns would sit in side the anemone, to recently, when only the female would be inside and the male underneath. It sounds like the recent events are perfectly normal?

If I take the 2nd anemone out, what should I do with my onyx clown?

None of these are new additions, except for the BTA. The clowns, clarkiis and onyx, along with the carpet, had been in my friend's tank together fine. After repairs are finished, the livestock is all going into my larger (~8ft) tank.


How long does it take for clowns to shift sex?
If I have a couple days or a couple weeks, I'd rather not yank the anemone out right after he's finally settled in and overcome the stress of being added to the tank.

Finally, how can my onyx even have a chance of hosting if I can't add a new anemone to the tank? Initially after the move, he tried the carpet, but the female clarkii wasn't appreciating him being near. They tassled for about 5 minutes and the onyx gave up.

 

[shred5]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10134549#post10134549 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mope54
Thanks for the responses.
Would you elaborate on the reasoning for not keeping a BTA in the same tank as a carpet? I tried searching, but came up short...

There are hundreds of threads on this.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1138352

Honestly there is always an exception especially in a big tank. But most of the people who have been keeping anemones for a long time agree that mixing anemones is a bad thing. but there are lots of reasons like: unlike corals anemones can move and come in contact... Also seems like chemical warefare comes in play and one will eventually die.

From what you described, it almost sounds like the pair was doing fine. But there was a distinct shift from earlier, when both clowns would sit in side the anemone, to recently, when only the female would be inside and the male underneath. It sounds like the recent events are perfectly normal?

Sounds like it to me.. Like I said there are times they are together but alot of the time the male sits at the edge or just under.

If I take the 2nd anemone out, what should I do with my onyx clown?

He will be fine.. clowns do not need a anemone.

How long does it take for clowns to shift sex?

No idea depends on the clown i guess

Finally, how can my onyx even have a chance of hosting if I can't add a new anemone to the tank? Initially after the move, he tried the carpet, but the female clarkii wasn't appreciating him being near. They tassled for about 5 minutes and the onyx gave up.

Hey may never host even if you have a anemone for him, but since he tried to host in the carpet he most like will....... But the best way is in a large tank... If the anemones are far apart. A clown will not venture far from their anemone unless they feel secure... If they feel secure in their tank or are the dominant fish in the tank they will have no problems leaving and moving... Fear is what keeps them in their anemone.

Adding another clarkii may get you one pair. Honestly you could end up with a onyx clarkii pair, it can happen... Sounds like the way your clarkii teared into your onyx it may be a female...

Dave

 

[mope54]

Oh, my onyx could pair with a clarkii?
I wondered about that...my onyx is friendly with both...except for the larger when the onyx comes near the anemone.

I know that clowns don't need an anemone...but to be honest, my tank might be the exception where having one is extremely beneficial. I just worry that my dragon eel is going to find that sleeping onyx one night...but he [the DME] doesn't venture too far up into the water column.

and before anyone becomes upset, I didn't purchase the clowns...I bought the anemone and my friend made it clear the hosting clarkii's were going with the anemone. Actually, what he said was, "good luck getting them out of their anemone..." which turned out to be true given that I couldn't get the female out even in a 5 gal bucket.

If that carpet moves, I'll have a lot more to worry about than a little BTA! It's a good 16-18" diameter. Never moved in my buddy's tank (over a couple years) and hasn't in mine yet. The bubble was *very* happy where I put him...and although I know he can move around he'll be in the opposite side of an 8ft tank...peninsula type, so on the other side of the rock island, too.

I'll read those threads, though.


To be honest, I've got the feeling my onyx will never host. He seems much more content to swim back and forth between the clarkiis...all day long...maybe he's a gigalo?

 

[mope54]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10134728#post10134728 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by shred5
There are hundreds of threads on this.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1138352

Well that thread was less than illuminating
Like most things in this hobby, half saying ok, half saying no way!

My tank is twice as large as the largest tank in that thread, though. So hopefully I'll see problems when/if they arise...

 

[shred5]

With a eel it will probably eventually get your fish anyway. I had a black ribbon eel that I had to give away after a year because he was eating my fish and he got my clowns which had an anemone... The thing with captive fish is they become much braver in a home tank than in the wild..
---
As far as that thread goes and others like it is it kind of goes like this in this hobby on the message boards...

There are those who do not care and want to hear it is ok to do this and that. There just looking for someone to say it is ok so they can justify it or their purchase.

There are those that say it is ok because they have been able to get away with it for a little while when it takes sometime year to years to see negative affects.

There are those who have no idea and are just repeating something they heard from someone else.

There are those who know from experience and research.

Some people think you cant because they could not.

Some people just get lucky.

Honestly in most cases mixing anemones is a bad thing.. sometime it can work, some species will tolerate each other and I stress the word tolerate.

Dave

 

[mope54]

hmm, well I try not to be any of those characters...I need to do some more searching after finals, that's for certain.

In any case, it seems like the best course of action is what I was tempted to do: try to get another clarkii to pair with my hosting clarkii and sell off the anemone/clarkii pair (OR people seem to want a clown/anemone pair enough as it is).

 

[shred5]

You never said what kind of carpet anemone you had?

Imho the best route is take the bta anemone out and trade it or trade it in at your lfs. this way there is no chance of problems between anemones and most likely your clarkiis will get back together, you solve two problems...

Dave

 

[mope54]

hmm, well I try not to be any of those characters...I need to do some more searching after finals, that's for certain.

In any case, it seems like the best course of action is what I was tempted to do: try to get another clarkii to pair with my hosting clarkii and sell off the anemone/clarkii pair (OR people seem to want a clown/anemone pair enough as it is).


I'd much rather have another carpet...anyone interested in a RBTA for a blue/purple/red carpet?

 

[mope54]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10135542#post10135542 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by shred5
You never said what kind of carpet anemone you had?

Imho the best route is take the bta anemone out and trade it or trade it in at your lfs. this way there is no chance of problems between anemones and most likely your clarkiis will get back together, you solve two problems...

Dave

According to the anemone FAQ, it looks like a neon green haddoni.


I realize the advice of not letting them roam and physically combat one another.

My plan is to create a seagrass fuge (~60-80 gallons) under the display. Now, would one of these be reasonable in the tank under the main display? Or are you also citing chemical warfare as a very likely occurrence (~400 total gallons)?


If you don't mind, a couple other questions on this point:
Does it matter according to species or size? My RBTA is very small, but if it's much more potent I would be concerned about my carpet? Or a smaller, more aggressive anemone would win in the chemical warfare arena?

What signs should I look for to make sure they are at least tolerating each other at this point? I won't be able to deal with this until after this weekend, and I'd rather not risk either anemone but don't know what to look for if they are in fact fighting at this point.

Thank you very much for the info.

 

[shred5]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10135700#post10135700 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mope54
According to the anemone FAQ, it looks like a neon green haddoni.


I realize the advice of not letting them roam and physically combat one another.

My plan is to create a seagrass fuge (~60-80 gallons) under the display. Now, would one of these be reasonable in the tank under the main display? Or are you also citing chemical warfare as a very likely occurrence (~400 total gallons)?


If you don't mind, a couple other questions on this point:
Does it matter according to species or size? My RBTA is very small, but if it's much more potent I would be concerned about my carpet? Or a smaller, more aggressive anemone would win in the chemical warfare arena?

What signs should I look for to make sure they are at least tolerating each other at this point? I won't be able to deal with this until after this weekend, and I'd rather not risk either anemone but don't know what to look for if they are in fact fighting at this point.

Thank you very much for the info.

I can not say for sure it would be ok, it is possible... It can very between different anemones and I am sure it has never really been totally studied. 400 gallons is small compared to the ocean... Sometime carbon and things like poly-filters can help. I am sure size probably does matter in some anemones and makes no difference in other species. Some are Most likely more potent than others and some probably are not at all... Who knows really which is which and that is why most people would say just do not do it...

You know it is the same with corals too. Some can tolerate another coral right next to them and others can not. Just seems most anemones we try to keep seem more fragile. Plus most anemones can not be replaced in the wild as easily as corals can so more care needs to taken to make sure they survive...

Dave

 

[mope54]

ok, my tank is getting really weird, from what you are describing is typical behavior...

I'm reading your post and I look up:
I see the female over near the RBTA. Then I see the pair of clarkiis swimming together, the female "herding" the male. Not nipping, not chasing, just slowly following like a shadow. She gets him almost to "her" anemone, but then he turns around and heads back to his. And she rolls around in the carpet. and then heads back above his BTA.

If I thought I could read intention from behavior, my description would be that she is trying to get him back to her anemone. The onyx is a strange third wheel. Always an inch away from the male or female, never aggressive toward either of them.

 

[shred5]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10136596#post10136596 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mope54
ok, my tank is getting really weird, from what you are describing is typical behavior...

I'm reading your post and I look up:
I see the female over near the RBTA. Then I see the pair of clarkiis swimming together, the female "herding" the male. Not nipping, not chasing, just slowly following like a shadow. She gets him almost to "her" anemone, but then he turns around and heads back to his. And she rolls around in the carpet. and then heads back above his BTA.

If I thought I could read intention from behavior, my description would be that she is trying to get him back to her anemone. The onyx is a strange third wheel. Always an inch away from the male or female, never aggressive toward either of them.

She might very well be trying to bring him over... I see This same behavior in my female especially when they first started to spawn, she would try and bring him over to place where she wanted to lay eggs.. Remember the female still needs the male.

As far as the onyx it may just be trying to fit in somewhere. It is probably low in rank, maybe it is still male or a juvenile.

In the wild there are allot of times more than two clowns per anemone.. The largest most aggressive is the female and the next is the male, all others stay as juveniles. When the female dies the male will become female and the next biggest juvi becomes the male or if the male dies the next biggest juvi becomes the male... Occasionally even though rare I believe you do see more than one species in a anemone.


Dave