Oh and their are different kinds of copper additives some much more toxic than others, cupramine by seachem for example is way less stressful on fish than others I've used and kills ich at .03 ppm(might have to go higher for other ectoparasites like velvet not sure) even though the recommended dosage is .05. I know lots of people that run it all the time in their FOWLER tanks, I do myself in my 100 gallon, the only real drawback is if you want to run a skimmer you'll have to test and continously keep your levels up with redosing as it will not only be pulled out by carbon, and cuprasorb, but by a good protein skimmer also(they don't tell you that on the bottle but will if you call them). That is also why your commercial systems by marineland use giant biowheels instead of skimmers keeps the chemicals in the water so pet stores have an easier time treating in their displays. At .03 even alot of real copper sensitive fish aren't bothered by it in fact after I switched that 100 gallon over to FOWLER and cupramine I found my serpent star still in there 3 days later, he turned white and was barely moving but he recovered once he went into another tank so it must be pretty gentle for copper. I was kinda mad when his color returned he looked pretty cool white. The only fish that I've ever thought might be bothered by cupramine is a powder brown tang, I've had 2 of them that started looking real fallow and skinny while in cupramine and started looking better when I got them out, but it could have just been coincidence.
Cleaner shrimp eat ICH?
- Thread starter cyricdark
- Start date
ThRoewer
New member
Here is a good paper by Steven Spotte: "Cleaner "Shrimp? (full PDF)
The gist of it is, that much of the "scientific" statements on cleaners eating parasites are flat out made up, based on superficial observations without any hard evidence to back it up.
The one study performed properly found that the shrimp don't eat any parasites at all but rather remove mucous and dead tissue from the fish.
This supports the "feel good" theory but debunks the parasite removal myth.
The gist of it is, that much of the "scientific" statements on cleaners eating parasites are flat out made up, based on superficial observations without any hard evidence to back it up.
The one study performed properly found that the shrimp don't eat any parasites at all but rather remove mucous and dead tissue from the fish.
This supports the "feel good" theory but debunks the parasite removal myth.
Agreed. However their skimmers are way larger than aquarists use.
Salty150
New member
Not to hijack the thread, and I am sorry to the OP if it is - but this may help him and is very interesting at the same time.
Anyone ever used ginger to get rid of ich?
Some people seem to swear by it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG7lSVlQvxA
Anyone ever used ginger to get rid of ich?
Some people seem to swear by it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG7lSVlQvxA
Deinonych
New member
Ginger has been debunked time after time as a treatment from ich. It doesn't work.
This. There are other urban myths as well
Boggs
New member
I recently put an angel in my display tank, well long story short. A few days later my prized blue hippo was showing signs of ICK! The angel died the day I noticed ICK on my hippo. I started kick ICK the next day. Went about 13 days with little signs of it going away. So I called Ruby reef (the makers of kick ICK) he told me to use Rally along with the kick ICK. So I bought a bottle of both. And since then over a month ago everything has been great. But keep in mind you may need to use 3 bottles of it, for me it worked. But I have heard of others saying it did not. I even told ruby reef that there was a lot of people that did not beleive in the product. He said most of the time they need to treat the secondary infection amd they don't. That's were the rally is needed. Please take this with a grain of salt other situation may have different out comes. The best method is QT. But I can never get a fish to live through QT! Lol
ThRoewer
New member
I don't know, I've never seen any ick on a fish stir-fried with garlic and ginger
Snake oil! :deadhorse1:
Simple rule: if it's reef safe it won't kill ick and if it's effective against ich it's not reef safe.
Boggs
New member
I don't know, I've never seen any ick on a fish stir-fried with garlic and ginger
Snake oil! :deadhorse1:
Simple rule: if it's reef safe it won't kill ick and if it's effective against ich it's not reef safe.
Lol, you can call it whatever you want. But I'll still say it worked! It's the only thing I did and there is not a spot on any fish and it's been over a month.
Salty150
New member
Hmmm, any links?
I have read some posts (on here and other places) of people who have said it helped their fish - and then some that said that it might not have been the ginger but some "other" factor.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2342319
But I have not read anything that debunked it - so a link would be much appreciated!
SNAKEMANVET
PREMIUM MEMBER
Just because you don't see ich,it doesn't mean its gone.It is still there.If something happens and it stresses the fish the ich will be seen.I have a purple tang that was covered in ich.It is in a tank getting well fed until Saturday then it goes through TTM.
Salty150
New member
I don't think that is what anyone is saying... ?
I think that what those who have tired it (ginger, etc.) are saying is that it made their fish better very quickly and kept them from dying.
I don't think anyone is saying that the ginger, etc. killed the ich in the tank - just got it to leave the infected fish alone.
So maybe it could be said that ginger is an effective treatment for getting the fish back to health...
And that other treatments actually kill the ich.
?
Sorry, but it is snake oil.
Deinonych
New member
Hmmm, any links?
I have read some posts (on here and other places) of people who have said it helped their fish - and then some that said that it might not have been the ginger but some "other" factor.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2342319
But I have not read anything that debunked it - so a link would be much appreciated!
Here's one for starters. If you don't know who Richard Ross is, suffice it to say that he's a trustworthy source.
https://www.reefs.com/forum/reefs-magazine/77954-skeptical-reefkeeping-richard-ross.html
The more important question to ask is, "where is the empirical evidence that ginger is an effective treatment?" Evidence is not a collection of anecdotes, and correlation does not equal causation. I have yet to come across a peer-reviewed study that advocates ginger as a sound treatment for ich. Furthermore, if it were a miracle, "reef safe" cure, there would be more documented evidence than just a few apocryphal tales about its effectiveness.
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Salty150
New member
Here's one for starters. If you don't know who Richard Ross is, suffice it to say that he's a trustworthy source.
https://www.reefs.com/forum/reefs-magazine/77954-skeptical-reefkeeping-richard-ross.html
The more important question to ask is, "where is the empirical evidence that ginger is an effective treatment?" Evidence is not a collection of anecdotes, and correlation does not equal causation. I have yet to come across a peer-reviewed study that advocates ginger as a sound treatment for ich. Furthermore, if it were a miracle, "reef safe" cure, there would be more documented evidence than just a few apocryphal tales about its effectiveness.
LOL, wow, that guys doesn't just see a glass as half empty - he sees it as totally empty...
I have never read such a cynical article before...
Have there been any studies that had two fish with ich - one treated with ginger and one without to see the difference?
