In marine aquaria the temperature of your tank should ideally match the temperature of its inhabitants natural seawater. Most of us however have things together in our tanks that are not found in the same waters, so we try to hit a happy medium that all our tank inhabitants are happy at. For me that is 80 degrees Fahrenheit. And higher temperatures( but not too high to be stressful) increase metabolism of almost any invert. Shrimp, snails, some corals and most parasites including ich. I've seen this many times as one of my quarantine tanks has a marine land heater that will go to 77degrees or 82 degrees but it won't stop anywhere in between no matter how much I play with the temperature knob. So I leave that tank at 77, all my other quarantines have cheap 5$ heaters from eBay which work right and they stay at 80 degrees. Ich cycles 2 -3 days faster at 80 then it does at 77, from experience.
Cleaner shrimp eat ICH?
- Thread starter cyricdark
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Deinonych
New member
ThRoewer
New member
It is a sales website so they will put a positive spin on almost everything they sell. As for them being wrong - they are wrong all the time, it's not even funny anymore.
As for the fish going to the cleaners - the fish just feel the itching, but have no idea what causes it. Going to a cleaner shrimp or wrasse is a reaction to that itch, and not an indication that the cleaner actually will be able to eliminate the root cause of that itch.
As for the notion that Cryptocaryon may only be present in the gills of a fish, but not on the skin - there are actually contradicting findings to this. Burgess found that if a fish has a Cryptocaryon infection, the parasites are equally likely to be found on its entire body. There is no preference for gills or fin edges. This applies specifically to partially immune fish.
The issue is that single or a low number of nodules are easily overlooked on an otherwise healthy locking and behaving fish.
As for higher temperatures - all that raising the temperature may do is moving the peak of excystment towards the shorter time. It may do the same to the feeding parasites on the fish and move the peak of ripening towards the shorter period of the lifecycle.
However, raising the temperature will not change the established minimum times for the parasite on the fish or in the cyst, and therefore does not shorten the lifecycle of the parasite. Also, shortening the lifecycle is the last you want to do as every following wave will be about 200 to 300 time stronger than the previous.
Add to that the oxygen reduction and raising the temperature is just a way to kill your fish faster.
krullshards
New member
I have to say that I always found the logic behind "increase the temp to get the ich through their lifecycle faster" to be dubious. I mean, wouldn't that mean that the ich just multiply faster? That seems to be the opposite of a cure. Thanks for the validation.
Also, thanks to you guys for posting your tank temps. I'll lower mine. I guess my fish have been sweating!
:clown:
Fish go to cleaners when they do not have ich. Also, some fish will not allow cleaning. There have been studies with cleaner shrimp/wrasses placed in tanks with infected fish. Stomach assays showed no ich was ingested
ThRoewer
New member
Do you have the link to that study? It would be good to have it to debunk this cleaner myth.
tassod
New member
I do this now and I have to say I've had absolutely no more parasite issues period.
ThRoewer
New member
Not a good idea.
Copper is a toxin to fish that they may tolerate for a defined treatment period, but tong term exposure to therapeutic levels will sooner or later be detrimental to their health and surely shorten their live expectancy.
Since copper is an immunosuppressant I would also expect long term issues with Lymphocystis and a whole host of other bacterial or viral maladies.
Also copper is not effective against many parasites. It is most effective against Ich, but with velvet it is already shaky since there are velvet strains that tolerate copper levels that are deadly to fish.
Brooklynella and Uronema are completely unaffected by copper.
Lastly, it is only an option for strict "fish only" systems.
Again, very bad idea.
tassod
New member
I know many people that have been doing this for years with no ill effects. Since I started this hobby, I've tried doing everything by the book and following many QT protocols which all have resulted in failure. These very same people have seen me go through this and have just shaken their heads in disbelief. In a last attempt to remain in the hobby I decided to go fish only and implement this same strategy as my fellow hobbyists that run copper continuously and this has been the longest I've ever run a tank without any issues. To each his own, but I am a firm believer in copper now and nothing anyone says can change that for me now. Copper may be considered "old school" now but there is truth in the saying "if it ain't broke, dont fix it".
I used to travel with Chris Newbert to do underwater photography. When we went to PNG, we had a marine biologist who had done research on cleaning behavior; turns out cleaning, in addition to removing ectoparasites is a stress reducer for the client fish as measured by levels of cortisol. A link to one of several studies can be found here. I will look for the link to the stomach assay study; I think it was Stephen Spotte.
Deinonych
New member
If there is any question that copper is toxic to marine animals, this article should answer it: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/10/breeder
ThRoewer
New member
Well, how old are their oldest fish?
As a beginner I used copper (back in the late 70s) and no fish ever made it alive out of QT/HT.
Then I started setting up my tanks with live rock and stopped worrying about ich and selected my fish very carefully. QT was only observational - and oh wonder, most of my fish actually made it to the DT and didn't get sick. Today I know that my selection method let me to chose primarily ich immune fish. Velvet, brook or uronema, while clearly around, didn't seem to be a big issue back then, though I had an Anthias die of uronema in QT.
ThRoewer
New member
In that line of thought I would also find it embarrassing to post pictures of a clearly troubled tank as proof of expertise.
I guess ignorance is bliss...
MatnNatsReef
New member
All I know is I had two cleaner shrimp in my reef when a mild ich infestation occurred. The fish seemed to start visiting the shrimp more but the infection just kept progressing. TTM and a fallow period cleared up the problem.
Deinonych
New member
Yup...first time I've ever seen Steve accused of trolling. :lmao:
gone fishin
New member
I hate when the trolls put out good information in a respectful way. :lol:
You know every forum has those guys with 10,20,30, 40k posts and they are always in every post arguing with someone about something and most of the time they just troll, if steve is actually helpful to people great I haven't seen it but I haven't looked either. If I was on this site for 20 years I'd still never hit that many posts, I am way too busy messing with fish tanks. I really don't see how anyone who is truly active in this hobby would, you get that many posts you're a professional poster, I'm an reef addict we don't have time to post all day.
