Cleaning crushed coral substrate

[navychief]

Every two weeks when I do a water change, I remove 20% of the water by siphoning out water while cleaning the crushed coral bed with a gravel cleaner. I've heard that the substrate bed should not be disturbed and also that it's not a big deal and a necessity. Anyone else use crushed coral and clean it this way?

 

[kzickovich]

I do it just like you when it comes to my 1 tank that has cc the 2 tanks with sand I let my clean up crew get. I do that because I don't have a cuc in my tank because it is an aggresive FO tank they will eat them

 

[Toddrtrex]

I no longer have CC, but when I did I graveled vaced with each weekly water change.

Heck, even now with a sand sand bed I still do that. Should note that I do not have a DSB, and mainly have a sand bed for looks and my anemones.

 

[reefworm]

OK, I'll draw attention to the elephant... Consider getting rid of the crushed coral altogether and replace with sand. I know - big pain and some $$. But in my experience less so than what could come later. I credit CC with the crash of my system some years ago. Shimek and others maintain that the size and rough edges of the material discourages the benthic life - worms, etc. that clean up the substrate. The greater surface area of sand also provides more room for your nitrifying bacteria population. The CC also, as you know, consists of millions of little "cups" in which the detritus builds up, and cleaning it by syphon is a pain and marginally effective. Looks like your system is in the early stages of set up, so doing it now would be far easier than later on. Look into some of RC sponsors for good deals on reef sand, and if you've a reefing friend nearby, perhaps they could do you a deal for a bit of live sand to seed your substrate. Again, I know this may not be what you'd like to hear, but I sure wish someone would have clued me in before the shoe fell. [pre-RC days ] I wish you well.

-rw

 

[Toddrtrex]

I don't think that CC is all that bad, nor all that much work.

I had mine CC sandbed for 7+ years, and my tank never crashed. Never had any 'rates either.

IMO, siphoning it wasn't a pain and was very effective. Could do a full water change ( including refilling ) with gravel vac in less then 20 minutes.

The reason I pulled it was because I was redoing the whole tank.

 

[reefworm]

Why did you change with the rebuild?

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12976963#post12976963 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefworm
OK, I'll draw attention to the elephant... Consider getting rid of the crushed coral altogether and replace with sand. I know - big pain and some $$. But in my experience less so than what could come later. I credit CC with the crash of my system some years ago. Shimek and others maintain that the size and rough edges of the material discourages the benthic life - worms, etc. that clean up the substrate. The greater surface area of sand also provides more room for your nitrifying bacteria population. The CC also, as you know, consists of millions of little "cups" in which the detritus builds up, and cleaning it by syphon is a pain and marginally effective. Looks like your system is in the early stages of set up, so doing it now would be far easier than later on. Look into some of RC sponsors for good deals on reef sand, and if you've a reefing friend nearby, perhaps they could do you a deal for a bit of live sand to seed your substrate. Again, I know this may not be what you'd like to hear, but I sure wish someone would have clued me in before the shoe fell. [pre-RC days ] I wish you well.

-rw

I totally agree---words right out of my mouth

 

[Toddrtrex]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12977027#post12977027 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefworm
Why did you change with the rebuild?

Because the reason for the rebuild was because of bubble algae, and I didn't want to take any changes of leaving any spores in the tank. Wasn't able to find any CC at my LFS -- and once I started the rebuild I didn't want to wait.

 

[navychief]

Yea. I've read threads about getting rid of CC. I would like to, but I'm not sure on the best way to do it and REALLY worried about upsetting the balance in the tank and losing what I have. Any suggestions on the best way to do this? One thing is for sure, my tank does not have a huge amount of rock in it.

Let me know if pics are needed to get an idea the best way to proceed.

 

[Michael]

i got rid of my cc, never regretted it, too much crap was in the cc, i did vaccuum it when i water changed, however after a while i just knew it had to go, changed to aragonite sand and the tank looks a lot healthier

 

[navychief]

diatom xl filter

diatom xl filter

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12979289#post12979289 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Michael
i got rid of my cc, never regretted it, too much crap was in the cc, i did vaccuum it when i water changed, however after a while i just knew it had to go, changed to aragonite sand and the tank looks a lot healthier

I was thinking. I have a Vortex XL Diatom Filter http://www.diatomfilters.com/index1.html
and I could run this to keep the water polished as I carefully and slowly pull out the CC. After that is done, I could slowly add the sand?

I used this Diatom Filter in my fresh tanks and it was great at polishing the water and even cleaning the rock.

Whatcha guys think?

 

[navychief]

Went and did it. Bought some OC Carib sand. Got all but except for at least 2-3 cups of the CC out. Tried ever so carefully to get the OC sand in, but still looks like an extremely large glass of milk! Shouldn't hurt anything, right?

 

[reefworm]

are there any animals in there now? if not you're fine - it'll settle out in a few days. you won't regret it.

 

[navychief]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12982348#post12982348 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefworm
are there any animals in there now? if not you're fine - it'll settle out in a few days. you won't regret it.

Yes. My whole habitant is in there (note my lower tank profile) and they all seem to be doing quite OK. I took the sand and rinsed it in my tank water like the instructions stated. I noticed a big difference when the sand goes into the tank after that. I'm putting in the new sand slowly while changing the water as I go.

Since this is a lot finer than CC, how if at all do you clean the bed?

 

[reefworm]

sounds like things will be fine. sorry I missed the profile. use a turkey baster to blow settled sand off the corals from time to time. you don't need to clean the substrate if you keep a good clean up crew. Cerith and Nassarius snails are great for burrowing into the sandbed and cleaning up the detritus. Start out with maybe about 1[of 1 or both types] per 8 gals to start to make sure there's enough for them to eat. you can always add more later. make sure to acclimate them slowly via drip method before introducing them to your display tank. And a good bristleworm population is a very effective means of keeping things cleaned up. Likely you've already got those. flow looks pretty good. move the koralia heads around occasionally to hit potential no or low flow areas. and use the turkey baster to blow off live rock if/when you see some build up of crud. Turbo and trochus snails can also clean up your rock, but make sure rock and corals are secure if you get turbos. they'll bulldoze stuff over.

 

[navychief]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12983183#post12983183 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefworm
sounds like things will be fine. sorry I missed the profile. use a turkey baster to blow settled sand off the corals from time to time. you don't need to clean the substrate if you keep a good clean up crew. Cerith and Nassarius snails are great for burrowing into the sandbed and cleaning up the detritus. Start out with maybe about 1[of 1 or both types] per 8 gals to start to make sure there's enough for them to eat. you can always add more later. make sure to acclimate them slowly via drip method before introducing them to your display tank. And a good bristleworm population is a very effective means of keeping things cleaned up. Likely you've already got those. flow looks pretty good. move the koralia heads around occasionally to hit potential no or low flow areas. and use the turkey baster to blow off live rock if/when you see some build up of crud. Turbo and trochus snails can also clean up your rock, but make sure rock and corals are secure if you get turbos. they'll bulldoze stuff over.

Cool. Thanks reefworm. It's now the second day since I started this substrate change. What a lot of work! The tank has cleared up a lot since I started yesterday and like you said, there's powder all over everything.

For the life of me I don't know why I didn't begin with sand instead of CC. I think the reason why is when people see the cost of these sands, they rule out the good stuff in their minds since it's only dirt. Anyhow. I'll post a pick when completed.

 

[Aquarist007]

sorry to come back late on this thread.
In hindsight when changing the substrate out and or adding more argonite. Get a 3 foot long piece of 2 inch pvc and put a funnel on the end. You can add the sand through the funnel right to the bottom of the tank and avoid the sand storm and basting off of the rock ect for the next week.

To remove the substrate I bought a 2 gal mini wet/vac--it is excellent for not stirring up things

 

[Sk8r]

IMHO one of the best and safest ways to 'swap' sandbeds is to set up a remote sandbed, ideally in a fuge, that is large enough to carry your whole system.

Example: I have fine sand, and find it a PITA with a high flow. It walks. So I am replacing it with medium-coarse aragonite. Note my relative sizes: I have a 54g tank with a 20g fuge. Both had a 3-4" sandbed. I have now siphoned out most of the fine sand from the display, but the system is running optimally, because the fuge sandbed, which is very rich and pampered, along with its live rock (20 lbs) is carrying the whole system quite handsomely. Not a hiccup, not a blip.

Raw sand usually arrives with some phosphate bonded into it: so when my sand order FINALLY gets to my lfs, I wil begin by adding a couple of cups of *washed* sand via fat pvc pipe straight to the bottom of my display tank. I will get some more hermits and snails to poo the resulting green algae straight into the water column, where it will arrive at my fuge and the phosphate-loving algae down there will suck it up.

No cycle, no blip, just a bit of algae growth which will get handled fairly fast. Bacteria from the fuge will arrive and colonize the new sand; and every few days, another pound of sand goes in. I'll judge by the behavior of the tank how fast to procede.

 

[Allanira]

I have both in mine. I have the live sand under some CC. I use a gravel vac on the cc and dont touch the LS. That way no sand storm and no build up of anything. Its a really thin layer of CC though just enough to hold the "sugar grain" sand down. You can pic up an amazing amount of sh .......... stuff with the gravel vac I will tell you. I also do the same thing to my freshwater. Good luck on what ever you do.

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12984629#post12984629 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Allanira
I have both in mine. I have the live sand under some CC. I use a gravel vac on the cc and dont touch the LS. That way no sand storm and no build up of anything. Its a really thin layer of CC though just enough to hold the "sugar grain" sand down. You can pic up an amazing amount of sh .......... stuff with the gravel vac I will tell you. I also do the same thing to my freshwater. Good luck on what ever you do.

IMO you don't need sugar grain argonite in your display tank at all
Its good in the refugium if you are trying to grow turtle grass and other reef grasses.
It is also good for a layer in a dsb but as Sk8r mentioned--a dsb is better done remotely from the display tank.