closed loop versus powerheads

[PaulieWalnuts]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13555905#post13555905 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by thechad21
I drilled two 1.5" holes on the back. They come together at a 2" T then down to the Dart. I'm going to use omni flex nozzles. I like them a lot so far. Kinda pricy though.

<a href="http://s60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/thechad21_2006/?action=view&current=puffer025.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/thechad21_2006/puffer025.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

I used a ton of clear pvc cement and schedule 80 single union ball valves. I'm not concerned about leaks.

That being said, this was a lot of work. When you add the cost of the plumbing parts, omniflex nozzles, Dart, OM 4-way, countless trips to Lowes, and an entire weekend putting it together. I could've bought several Vortechs and saved a lot of time and energy.

I'm still quite fond of my closed loop though. If you enjoy tinkering, planning and putting things together, you'll enjoy your closed loop too. It's hard to put a quantitive value on the clean look of a closed loop. You can't really say one is better than the other.

If you don't mind spending a little extra on your electric bill, or the initial planning and labor involved, and if you hate the look of cords in your tank, then build a closed loop. Or just buy a couple Vortechs and call it a day lol.

It's different for everyone. Personally I hate the look of ANY equipment in a tank. I'm really glad that I'll have both a closed loop and a Vortech (which I hope to hide between the rock).

i did'nt know your were going with a vortech also....you are going to have very nice flow between the OM and the vortech, i just bought the vortech instead of the OM for my dart...wish i could afford both or i would have done that too....veryyy nice chad

 

[jbuckner]

@psyrob Do you have any links to info about the Borneman surge device? I'm interested in learning more

Here's the pictures of my CL (click for larger):
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/namwodahs/2875460089/" title="The Back by namwodahs, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3205/2875460089_8fef995ed3_m.jpg" width="160" height="240" alt="The Back" /></a>

and some of my planning renderings:
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/namwodahs/1470222507/" title="New Piping by namwodahs, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1027/1470222507_f7972d8b3a_m.jpg" width="208" height="240" alt="New Piping" /></a>

Jason

 

[Mr. Brooks]

Thanks man! I figure a Vortech is something you can add easily after the fact. Buying stuff over a longer period of time doesn't hurt as much. Thing is, with a closed loop you really need to set it up in the begining.

 

[psteeleb]

my CL is a bit less complex but I'd love to have a OM 4 way
one suction and two returns that alternate using a SQWD

the pump is rated at 850gph but I have penductors on the returns so I get a 5X flow that I'm sure is over rated (Penductor is a name brand for an eductor - I think they are made by Penguin)

My suction pipe goes up about 5" inside the tank and has a fairly large strainer on it. The whole thing is completely surrounded by a rock cave, that channels most of the water from the back side of the tank

the returns are piped in side the tank and have flex (that ball socket stuff) that points the returns from behind some rocks so everything is pretty well hidden. the returns are pointed toward the front of the tank

 

[PaulieWalnuts]

yeah that is a good point i wish my tank was like yours but i don't want to get off topic from this thread.

 

[tcmfish]

There is a good description and pictures of Surge Devices in The Reef Aquarium Vol. 3. It is a very informative book (yes its pricy but its well worth it).

 

[Fishingpcola]

Let me ask for some advice here. I have 4 1" holes in the bottom of my tank. Currently I have 1 strainer for 2 pumps, an iwaki 20 and a little giant 2-mdqx-sc flowing to 2 of the holes. One is not being utilized. I would like to replace with the Reeflo snapper. I believe, and this is where I need input, I would need to use two holes for the input to the Reeflo and output would go to the remaining two holes and two would be plumbed to the top with the returns. I would use an OM-4. Please offer advice!

 

[Fishingpcola]

Which is the better motor on the Reeflo pump?

 

[PaulieWalnuts]

do you mean model...like snapper, dart, barracudas, and so on.

i think most in your size tank would run a dart, low noise and power bill then the bigger pumps and still pushed 3600 gph and i clean out my in box

 

[Fishingpcola]

No. It seems that the pump can come with motors by different manufactures. I say this because in the equipment for sale forum, when I see a pump for sell, people are asking which motor is on it.
Thanks,

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

I've tried a CL a few times and while I like the theory, I always end up with my powerheads again. Powerheads definitely win on the power consumption end of things. And once you factor in the intake strainers and output fittings, are most closed loops really that much better asthetics-wise than a few powerheads?

If (who am I kidding... when) I get a bigger tank in the 180+ range I will probably use a CL with outlets in the bottom 1/2 of the tank. I dont like having powerheads down that low because of power cords. I will not use anything on the inside-tank side of the bulkhead for the outputs either. And I will still probably have the majority of my flow be provided by a few tunzes.

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

That being said, this was a lot of work. When you add the cost of the plumbing parts, omniflex nozzles, Dart, OM 4-way, countless trips to Lowes, and an entire weekend putting it together. I could've bought several Vortechs and saved a lot of time and energy.

This is worth being repeated. A lot of people look at the cost of Tunze or Vortech and think it's through the roof, but honestly, it will cost about the same to set up a comparable closed loop (i.e. wavemaking incorporated). I've spent hours building closed loops, probably three or four separate times, and somehow I dont still have any of them running. I bought the Tunzes, dropped them in the tank and plugged them in, and here they are four years later.

Not trying to bash CL's... and if they are done right, and for the right reasons, they are probably better. But to me there are a few conditions. Mainly, the entire tank has to be planned with the CL in mind. This means pre-planning where your rockwork will be and working your flow around that (because once it's set up... its not changing). I would drill the tank for inputs and maybe a few outputs depending on the planned tank setup. And don't even bother unless you are planning on staying with the tank setup for a few years at least. (I think I'm starting to ramble - sorry). Mainly, if you are going to do it - do it right (see signature). Work the outputs into your rockwork or decide where the outputs are going to be drilled based on where your rockwork will be. Spend time planning it and incorporating it into the entire plan of the tank (and know it will consume considerable electricity probably). Plan for it to be permanent and long-term. If you are setting up your dream display tank and going all out for your one and only tank, go for it. But if your just setting up another tank that you will probably rearrange or take down or upgrade in a few years, just get powerheads.

 

[cdness]

I like my closed loop. It is the clean look that I like the most about it. I really hate seeing cords and pumps inside the tank. No it isn't as efficient but it does look better to me.

 

[Mr. Brooks]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13563980#post13563980 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fishingpcola
No. It seems that the pump can come with motors by different manufactures. I say this because in the equipment for sale forum, when I see a pump for sell, people are asking which motor is on it.
Thanks,

Reeflo has come out with a new line of more efficient pumps. They call them their "Gold" series. They're slightly more powerful, use slightly less energy, and run cooler. They ARE better pumps but they're also pretty expensive. You'd be fine with an older style reeflo pump, there's nothing really wrong with them. I have three old style Darts and an old style Barracuda. Though I put a new Goby (Gold series) impeller on my Barracuda. It's made it more efficient for my needs and also much quieter.

 

[Otty]

I run a HammerHead on my OM 4-way CL and would not change it for the world. I took my time and engineered a tank the way it should be instead of taking the easy way out and throwing ugly PH in the tank to get it running. I would much rather pay a little extra for power (very little for the flow I have) then to have a cluttered tank.

 

[Fishingpcola]

Can I get this answered. What is everyone's thought if I use two of my 1" buckhead as inlets but stepup the pipe to 1 1/2 to a T and run 2" to the pump. Would this work? I prefer not to try to redrill the holes due to the fact of my setup.

 

[dagda]

Your two 1" bulkheads have approximately the same area as a 1.5" bulkhead. The Snapper has a 2" input, so you would be starving it.

The 2" input on the Dart can be downsized to a 1.5" input with a bit of flow loss. You should check with Reeflo to see if the Snapper can be downsized without damage.

 

[Fishingpcola]

Thanks. I will check with them. I see this like a sprinkler system. From the pump to the manifold, you use 1 1/4 then 1" values but step the pipe back up to 1 1/4.

 

[kwaters]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13554404#post13554404 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tcmfish
On the closed loop, with these big pumps, do you guys split up the intake? I would think that would be a lot of water flowing into one hole. Do fish ever get stuck or inverts?

I have lived with the powerheads in my 55 gallon for a year and a half...now granted I can change up the flow, I still hate them. I want CLEAN....did I say CLEAN?

I recently drilled my new 110...two overflows and two intakes for the CL (all four 1 1/2 inch). My plumbing will run externally (out to the garage) so I am not worried about noise and will be using a dart (CL pump) as well. I choose two intakes so as not to SUCK fish and inverts in....the return of the CL is a manifold with 4 out puts..2 on the sides and 2 at the front....they are currently 1 inch and I can adapt to 3/4 lockline fittings if I want things more custom.

My return from the sump will have either a SWCD or OM's...but I am still thinking about that!

Kris

 

[PaulieWalnuts]

kwaters for you have a build page for your 110, i am doing mine like yours with a dart, but a little different with the holes. would love to see it...mine is my red house.