Closed Loop vs. Tunze (500 gallon Display)
- Thread starter 46bfinGA
- Start date
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
Id do tunzes. If you do some good rock planning like Iwan's tank, they can be completely hidden from view, and placed up top for easy access.
steve the plumb
In Memoriam
Witch Dart NW did you get.I got mine from ORCA he sent it to my cousins house about 3 weeks ago(NYC) I am going there to pick it up this weekend.I was going to get it earlier but plans changed(the wife)Tunze also sells those rocks that you can use to hide the power heads .The Vortech has 4 modes I think you should get some kind of wave motion out of them.I don't know if 2 will give you a good wave since your tank is pretty wide,you can e-mail them or ask an online vendor.The tunze are a little bulky but they are very nice pumps.I am thinking of adding 2 vortechs to my tank I think for my tank it will be enough flow.You will notice that just using one dart pump and an 8 way will give you a decent flow but its not enough to get the entire tank.The dart for a return pump does help a lot with the flow.I notice that when I shut of my return pump the flow is a little to mild.Those tunze pumps aren't cheap either.Any witch way you look at it you need a $1000 minimum.I would think about 2 dart pumps and 2x4 ways that would make for a nice flow and use the barracuda for your skimmer.Maybe use the Barracuda with one of the 4 ways and a dart for the other.Since you have the pumps.
Im getting mine from a friend who is about to start Manuf. them on his own website.They are very Nice! They will be out soon.I'll post some pics when I get mine.
Im thinking regarding the flow Im just going to try and use what I have now and see how it works out.If I need any additional flow anywhere Im just going to add a MJ 1200 mod or something with the magnet mounts and call it a day. The Tunze and Vortech's are just too expensive for my budget right now.
Now on to closed loop placement,what has worked best for you guys?
Do you think I should put my returns in the back of the tank or on the sides?
My tank is in wall,I can put them just about anywhere on the tank.
If I use the Barricuda with my OM4way,then that leaves me a Dart for my return from the sump.Then I could throw another dart on the opposing side if I needed to.Any ideas on how to best place these returns?
Im thinking regarding the flow Im just going to try and use what I have now and see how it works out.If I need any additional flow anywhere Im just going to add a MJ 1200 mod or something with the magnet mounts and call it a day. The Tunze and Vortech's are just too expensive for my budget right now.
Now on to closed loop placement,what has worked best for you guys?
Do you think I should put my returns in the back of the tank or on the sides?
My tank is in wall,I can put them just about anywhere on the tank.
If I use the Barricuda with my OM4way,then that leaves me a Dart for my return from the sump.Then I could throw another dart on the opposing side if I needed to.Any ideas on how to best place these returns?
Chihuahua6
Premium Member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11238078#post11238078 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 46bfinGA
I have a jeweled eel and plan on buying a small dragon eel.Plus I like to keep triggers,large tangs,Harlequin tusk,wrasses,etc.But I dont like tanks that are your typical FOWLR with just boring rocks or fake decorations. I want a colorfull reef tank with big yellow fiji leathers,mushrooms,colorfull but easy to care for stuff with aggressive fish.Just my tasteI have other tanks that will be in my fish room for the Wimpier fish like Clownfish,Gobies,Dwarf lionfishes,etc......that I also like to have.
Sounds great. I had a Queen Trigger, Clown Trigger, Volitan Lion and Miniatus Grouper years ago. It was a 200ish gallon tank and that's all I had in it. It was barebottom and I had powerheads at the bottom of the tank to keep it clean. They did make quite a mess. The Queen Trigger was a beauty with a great personality. I got her at six inches and she grew to over a foot with streamers in a little over a year. Years before that tank (1985) I had a Spiny Box Puffer that was also a great fish. He had the best personality of any fish I ever had. He was the only fish that I ever thought of as more of a pet than a fish. You're making me want to get another aggressive tank. I would do what you're doing and add the easy care softies too. I really can't wait to see your tank progress.
I'm running eductors on my 8 x 2 x 30" tank with one CL. There are 4 eductors on the CL and 4 on my sump return. My CL is powered with a Barracuda which really does not have the necessary pressure head to run the eductors but still does ok, so I may swap it with a Manta Ray. The sump return is powered by a Pan World 250 and works great, increasing flow in the display and decreasing flow through the sump, a great combination.
I prefer eductors because there are no moving parts, nothing to maintain or clean and the flow is more than enough. The flow is also a "mass effect" and not a narrow stream. I have the Pan World cranked down a bit because of too much flow.
I prefer eductors because there are no moving parts, nothing to maintain or clean and the flow is more than enough. The flow is also a "mass effect" and not a narrow stream. I have the Pan World cranked down a bit because of too much flow.
Elliot,
Hows the flow in your tank with just the one closed loop? Do you wish you had more outlets?Are there any dead spots? Do you have pics of where your returns are located on the tank?Just sold a Manta Ray pump those things are beasts.I could have used it but did not want a 760 Watt closed loop running on my tank. Ive thought about Eductors but I was worried about them running my Dart/Barricuda to hot. Im thinking about trying the OM Revolutions on my closed loop and see how they work out. Seem like they would work pretty good.There only $30 or so a piece so thats not too bad.
Hows the flow in your tank with just the one closed loop? Do you wish you had more outlets?Are there any dead spots? Do you have pics of where your returns are located on the tank?Just sold a Manta Ray pump those things are beasts.I could have used it but did not want a 760 Watt closed loop running on my tank. Ive thought about Eductors but I was worried about them running my Dart/Barricuda to hot. Im thinking about trying the OM Revolutions on my closed loop and see how they work out. Seem like they would work pretty good.There only $30 or so a piece so thats not too bad.
here's a shot of my 4 returns from the top
[/IMG]
I don't have a shot of the CL, but there are 4 outlets along the back wall under the rock, the eductors are screwed into the bulkheads pointing straight up, and there are 2 intakes also along the back wall towards the center. so flow goes from bottom/back straight up and then the top eductors direct it forward and down, so in a circle. the lowest flow is towards the ends but no real dead spots. eductors pull in surrounding water, something like 3 to 7 times the pumped flow going through them, depending on the head pressure rating of the pump as they cause signifcant backpressure, so a real mass water effect, great for the sump return as I mentioned above.
I have plenty of flow and can increase it easily by opening up the Pan World 250, the return pump, it's 1/4 closed right now, and by swaping the barracuda with a true pressure rated pump like the manta ray, if needed.
I don't have a shot of the CL, but there are 4 outlets along the back wall under the rock, the eductors are screwed into the bulkheads pointing straight up, and there are 2 intakes also along the back wall towards the center. so flow goes from bottom/back straight up and then the top eductors direct it forward and down, so in a circle. the lowest flow is towards the ends but no real dead spots. eductors pull in surrounding water, something like 3 to 7 times the pumped flow going through them, depending on the head pressure rating of the pump as they cause signifcant backpressure, so a real mass water effect, great for the sump return as I mentioned above.
I have plenty of flow and can increase it easily by opening up the Pan World 250, the return pump, it's 1/4 closed right now, and by swaping the barracuda with a true pressure rated pump like the manta ray, if needed.
invincible569
New member
I have 2 Closed Loops powered by a Dart & a Coralife Pump and also 1 6201 and 1 6101. I have to say that the Tunze 6201's are the best option out of any of these I have experienced. I also have a wide tank and the 6201's are perfect for it. The 6101 is too narrow of a stream. I am starting to turn down my closed loop (dart pump) because its also a stream of flow versus the 6201. I have the 6201 pushing across the tank and it's doing exactly what I wanted. The only problem I may see with yours is that you have too much rock. Im all about less rock for more flow as it will be more restricted and not give you a good flow pattern without having to add more powerheads. I would only use a closed loop for a chiller. The 6201's or 6301's are my vote.
Yeah Im not sure how much Rock will actually make it into the tank.I plan on having three seperate rock structures in the middle of the tank spread along the tank.Then the rest will end up in the sump.
I was at a friends last night who had Tunze in his 300. Man those pumps are so BIG.Im not sure that what I want in my tank.Il try the CL first and if that dont work then I may look into getting some Vortechs.
I was at a friends last night who had Tunze in his 300. Man those pumps are so BIG.Im not sure that what I want in my tank.Il try the CL first and if that dont work then I may look into getting some Vortechs.
invincible569
New member
If you are worried about revolving costs.. This is my actual out of pocket costs in Houston, TX:
1. Dart - 24hrs (ON) - $15/mo. - 160w.
2. Tunze 6201 - 24hrs (ON) - $6/mo. - 55w.
1. Dart - 24hrs (ON) - $15/mo. - 160w.
2. Tunze 6201 - 24hrs (ON) - $6/mo. - 55w.
i2ik
New member
I will chime in as well I currently have the OM 4 way on my dart return, 4 vortech pump, 4 wavy-sea, a tunze 6200, 6100, 6080 and the wawebox. In my 8x3x28, i dont have the tunze in, neither the wavebox but planning on putting them in really soon. They are just sitting on the floor, the 6200 is mixing the salt when i need it.
I really like the vortech for the reason that its not really big and you dont see it much like the tunze, although, i have been having some problems with them falling off, sometimes by itself, sometimes, its me when cleaning the glass. Thats what i hate the most about them. Also, sometimes, the red light will flash and i will have to unplug and plug it back, so i need to be checking them almost everyday. If you think you are going to clean the glass, i would not choose the vortech since its a pain to take it off, clean the glass and put it back making sure its well align and wont make noise.
The tunze 6200 like Edward said is much better than the 6100. The tunze dont have the problems that the vortech have, but its more visible in the tank, also making more heat. On a big tank like yours, i doubt heat will be a problem. My tank is around 70 without heater during winter and around 77 during summer. I keep it at 77-78 without chiller. The magnet for the tunze are moveable, so its easy to clean the glass without interrupting the pump.
I am thinking about getting of my OM 4 ways, since i installed it but did not put it on yet, afraid of the sand particule blocking my OM. Its need to be clean from time to time to make sure there is nothing blocking the drum.
I currently have the OM 4 way on my dart return, 4 vortech pump, 4 wavy-sea, a tunze 6200, 6100, 6080 and the wawebox. In my 8x3x28, i dont have the tunze in, neither the wavebox but planning on putting them in really soon. They are just sitting on the floor, the 6200 is mixing the salt when i need it.I really like the vortech for the reason that its not really big and you dont see it much like the tunze, although, i have been having some problems with them falling off, sometimes by itself, sometimes, its me when cleaning the glass. Thats what i hate the most about them. Also, sometimes, the red light will flash and i will have to unplug and plug it back, so i need to be checking them almost everyday. If you think you are going to clean the glass, i would not choose the vortech since its a pain to take it off, clean the glass and put it back making sure its well align and wont make noise.
The tunze 6200 like Edward said is much better than the 6100. The tunze dont have the problems that the vortech have, but its more visible in the tank, also making more heat. On a big tank like yours, i doubt heat will be a problem. My tank is around 70 without heater during winter and around 77 during summer. I keep it at 77-78 without chiller. The magnet for the tunze are moveable, so its easy to clean the glass without interrupting the pump.
I am thinking about getting of my OM 4 ways, since i installed it but did not put it on yet, afraid of the sand particule blocking my OM. Its need to be clean from time to time to make sure there is nothing blocking the drum.
Chihuahua6
Premium Member
How do the Vortecs fall off by themselves? Does that happen often?
i2ik
New member
its happened twice to only one of the pump, the 3 others are ok, but if you happened to clean the glass and accidentl swiffly touch the vortech cord, there are chance it will fall down. notice that 3/4" glass is the maximum recommended for those pump, over smaller glass, i dont think its a big problem.
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
Not to pick on you, but this assumption is not always true. Can you see the 3 tunzes in the tank below?
No, because they have all been cleverly hidden like the one below. Even the overflow is hidden from view.
http://www.hausriff.ch/4534/156972.html
There are others who make special overflow box extensions that allow the tunzes to be mounted behind a wall... with a cutout hole for the outlet, and mesh/slots for the intake... so the tunze itself is hidden in a wall. Just saying... you can hide anything in your tank with a plan.
Last edited:
Not everyone wants the rockwork to go to the top of the tank though.Now the overflow box extensions sounds like a good idea.
Now you can't disagree that The vortech's are less sitely then the Tunze in normal situations.95% of the tanks out there have them in plain site and not cleverly hidden.
I do like the efficiency difference of the Tunze vs. Dart pump.Thats a huge difference over a period of a year.Too bad it would take you a 5-6 years to break even.
Now you can't disagree that The vortech's are less sitely then the Tunze in normal situations.95% of the tanks out there have them in plain site and not cleverly hidden.
I do like the efficiency difference of the Tunze vs. Dart pump.Thats a huge difference over a period of a year.Too bad it would take you a 5-6 years to break even.
invincible569
New member
Amount of flow produced comparison:
Tunze 6201 - 4396 G/H
Dart - 3600 G/H
The Dart's rating is at 0'. Placing the pump under a 4' stand will drop it down to 2820 G/H which is even lower than its smaller model, the 6101. Then you have to calculate the amount of elbows, T's and 45's you will add that will continue to decline the G/H output. About 10% less for every elbow.
Then you have the additional stress added to a tanks glass bottom when drilling more holes.
Where am I going here? Once you start calculating this out, you will need more than just one Dart to produce the amount of flow a Tunze 6201 will give.
Tunze 6201 - 4396 G/H
Dart - 3600 G/H
The Dart's rating is at 0'. Placing the pump under a 4' stand will drop it down to 2820 G/H which is even lower than its smaller model, the 6101. Then you have to calculate the amount of elbows, T's and 45's you will add that will continue to decline the G/H output. About 10% less for every elbow.
Then you have the additional stress added to a tanks glass bottom when drilling more holes.
Where am I going here? Once you start calculating this out, you will need more than just one Dart to produce the amount of flow a Tunze 6201 will give.
Last edited:
