Clown Issues...

salt e · Aug 30, 2006

ok...i pretty much read that i should just take the tank water...and not do it as a fw bath... if i diagnosed the disease wrong and i might be dealing with something else... when do you think that a FW bath might need to come into play...say for exacmple...it is not Brook but it is Ich...or it has Brook AND Ich... i should then FW dip When?

818 · Aug 30, 2006

post pics of the clown.

salt e · Aug 30, 2006

ok i will in a min...i just got the clown into the small QT tank... 1 sec...

may still be hard to see. since the QT tank can only hold a little under 1 gallon of water...i only added 1 drop of the Formalin...i will do 50% water changes every day using the original tank water until the clown is cured...1 sec...lemme go get these pics 4 u sam.

salt e · Aug 31, 2006

sigh~ cant find the USB adapter...i will post pics b4 the night is up... pics dont show very much...you can just see where the scabs fell off after the first bath... there is no slime on the fish, from which i read looks more like spit... it appears that the fish's gill area has gotton alot shorter exposing some of the gill on the right side of the fish... and it appears while observing...that, that side moves more then the other side while the fish is breathing.

i attempted to feed the fish again before moving him into the QT tank...he was interested but didnt eat anything.

firerock · Aug 31, 2006

In the link that I have sent you, written by Mr. Bob Fenner in regards to the Formalin dip/bath for Brooklynellosis:

"The most efficacious cure is made by using formalin solution in either dips/baths (in freshwater or marine) or more dangerously, in administering the formalin to a system (with no invertebrates, algae, live rock present). Stock solutions of formalin (formaldehyde) are generally about 37% composition, and can be used as dips/baths of one cc. per gallon. Baths should extend for a minimum of fifteen minutes, perhaps as long as thirty... with you present (lest the animal/s need to be removed due to stress) and mechanical aeration (bubblers, airstones) added to the bath. "

Brooklynellosis Disease is cotton like, while Ich appears as little white dots, and Velvet is very small, kinda sand-like sprinkles. I also agree a photo will help identify the disease. There are photos in the links that I have sent you, or you can just google and find photos that'll help you identify the disease. Perhaps you can post a photo to the clown forum as well to get more advise.

Is it still eating and active? Is it breathing hard? You left him in a Rid-Ich bath for 1 hour and 20 mins? That could be very streeful to the Clarkii, so you MUST identify the disease before you administer another treatment.

Good luck.

salt e · Aug 31, 2006

thanks firerock... i have the fish in the QT tank (a little less then 1 gallon of display tanks SW) there is no cotton like apperance on the fish...Brian said that Brook would look more like a slime coating the fish... there was never any slime... and the white spots or "scabs" (how i have been describing them) look more like small peices of sand how your example was...and there more sand like in color as well... whitish / tan...

the fish has been in the QT tank with 1 drop of the Formalin for about 6 hours now... i attempted to feed him in the QT tank...he would not eat... didn't seem interested... he has been rubbing up against the floor and side of the tank where his gill has been exposed (discribed in my last post)... looks like something has been eating away at his gill cover...

now that i have this girl in the QT tank... i really need to get her to eat...its been 4 days since she last ate... the fish is still swimming and acting a little better... but im not sure that means a cure is in sight since the fish will not eat and is still rejecting food... any ideas on a good way to get her to eat...Brine Shrimp maybe... maybe im treating the wrong disease... should i attempt to treat for velvet?

thanks for all the help...
Cris

salt e · Sep 1, 2006

salt e · Sep 1, 2006

this is how the fish looks AFTER the RID ICH bath and the "Scabs" or sand looking objects fell off... i have stopped using the formulin since im almost sure from what i read about the symptoms that the fish has Velvet... to the Cupramine treatment w/ copper is being used now after a 100% water change and cleaning of the tank and RedSea HOB filter was done... i am using 1 drop of the Copper in the QT tank and changing the water out 50% every 16 hours...does this sound right...the QT tank can only hold 3/4 gallon water. should i be using more copper...? it says to use 1 cc per 10.5 gallons... i dont think im using enough.

NicoleC · Sep 1, 2006

Brook, IMO. If so, copper is the wrong treatment. Be very, very careful with the copper in that small of a tank! You must test the actual level of the copper at least twice a day, not just dose at random.

Please post these pics and what you have done so far in Kelly's Forum on Marine Depot. At this point the fish has been through so much you really need her expertise to point you in the right direction.

That 1g tank is a disaster waiting to happen. A clean Sterilite container with a measured quantity of water will be better, or better yet spend the $9 at Petco and get a 10 gallon glass tank.

salt e · Sep 1, 2006

even though the fish has no slime covering the body... no milky covering... no skin discoloration... and the infection looked more like small white / tan dots... ~sigh~ i will get a bigger tank :mad2: even if i go get a bigger tank at petco...there is no bio-load in the tank... how do i keep the fish alive with just a "BRAND NEW 10 GALLON TANK and NEW SW from Tongs" i OBVIOUSLY dont think i know how to correctly set up a hospital tank... any advice will help immensely.

firerock · Sep 1, 2006

Listen to NicoleC. She knows her clowns and is an expert in the them. I also think it looks more like brook, so don't put the fish through another treatment, especially copper, until you get a confirmation by Kelly in MD forum.

I know it is difficult to take a clear photo, and you have taken some very good photos to show the fish's condition. However, next time, try to avoid handling fish with your hands because fish has a natural slime coat that protects them.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

Captain Quirk · Sep 1, 2006

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8053681#post8053681 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NicoleC
Brook, IMO. If so, copper is the wrong treatment. Be very, very careful with the copper in that small of a tank! You must test the actual level of the copper at least twice a day, not just dose at random.

Please post these pics and what you have done so far in Kelly's Forum on Marine Depot. At this point the fish has been through so much you really need her expertise to point you in the right direction.

That 1g tank is a disaster waiting to happen. A clean Sterilite container with a measured quantity of water will be better, or better yet spend the $9 at Petco and get a 10 gallon glass tank.

Words of wisdom. I think all of us realize the difficulties that surround smaller tanks in general. The sterilite containers are cheap and a good option here. Again, that small of a tank AND the copper you're dosing... Recipe for disaster. Even with as little as *I* know, this is a no-brainer.

Do as Nicole suggests and get Kelly involved. You need outside assistance on this. I might also suggest handling the animal a bit less... Human skin is not exactly easy on theirs. Slime coat, stress.. All not good.

Dump the small tank. Get a bigger one (the ten would probably be easiest/best because of visibility/ease of maintenance). Don't cheap out on it. Just cough up the cash and do whatever's necessary. For me, they're pets. Not "easily" replaceable with a few bucks. Do what's right for the animal.

YMMV

firerock · Sep 1, 2006

Since you have access to Seachem products, you might want to try Seachem Garlic Guard, and see if Clarkii'll eat. There's no guarantee, but no harm in trying either.

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=SC4811

salt e · Sep 1, 2006

Kelly's Forum on Marine Depot...can you please provide a link to this place where i should post...im not familiar with this site...thanks...sorry to be such a burden:rolleye1: i have the garlic guard at my pad in torrance...i will get it soon...thanks andy

salt e · Sep 1, 2006

http://forum.marinedepot.com/

which one is Kelly's

salt e · Sep 1, 2006

found it... posted issue...

salt e · Sep 1, 2006

apparently since i have been doing the copper treatment the fish has begain to start the labored breathing again even now a little more...and is staying near to the surface of the water... since the begaining the fish was NEVER hovering near the top of the water line...

firerock · Sep 1, 2006

You can aerate the water with a air pump and an airstone and see if that helps. If the fish is still showing signs of stress, stop the copper treatment. You need a copper testkit to keep track of the concentation of copper in the water as NicoleC has mentioned. Treating a fish blindly with copper can be lethal.

You really need a bigger QT tank, and patience. Putting the fish through all these treatments will weaken and stressout the fish further.

salt e · Sep 1, 2006

yea i have completely stopped the copper...i have talked to Kelly at MD and she as well thinks the fish has Brook. so i go on from here with the Formalin... lolz...dude..ur penguin gets better and better every time...lolz...O-umm...where was i? im going to go get a bigger tank today for the treatment bath... do you thiink the small tank is good enough for housing the fish while it is out of the display tank...or do you think that the smaller tank might be the reason the fish is still not eating... his breathing has improved GREATLY...no signs of extream shortened breaths...most likely cause i stopped the copper treatment... but now i still need to prevent this guy from starving to death... I have the Garlic @ home...i need to get my hands on that...any other ideas that might be usefull? do you think Brine might help?

NicoleC · Sep 1, 2006

The smaller tank is probably quite stressful for such a large fish. Move the existing HOB filter to the new 10g with clean SW -- pH, temp and salinity matched, of course -- and acclimate the fish to the new tank and move to the larger tank. Use the smaller tank or a clean bucket for baths.

4 days without food is a bit worrying, but not lethal. The fish is plump and not starving, and fish can go for extended periods without food without causing harm. I would offer high value food regularly 2-3 times per day. High value food is anything the fish has shown a preference for in the past, or items like live brine or frozen cyclopeeze.

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