Clownfish ID???

[cannon77]

Ok, we were given this little guy as a "True Perc" We have had for a few months and he is now paired with what we KNOW is a true perc. Based on Spines, eye color and body color. The female is a Solomon Islands variant, which is wht she is really bright orange, almost yellow. The male however, has been getting darker and darker all the time. He is so dark that I cant count his spines and looks like he is really an Onyx. On that note....looking at his eye color, he lacks the yellowish orange ring that you see in a Perc, so that is what leaves us wondering about him???? Given the details of eyes and body color, we are leaning that he may be some sort of "Onyx Percularis" What do you think???
Pics of him now

Pics when we first got him

 

[elegance coral]

It looks like one of Sanjay's hybrid onyx percula/Darwin ocellaris AKA Black photon clown. Without knowing where the fish came from, you'll never be sure what it is. Unless you spend major bucks on DNA work. It does look more ocellaris than percula. Breeders like SA are producing ocellaris with more and more black.

 

[ILLiDaN]

Looks ocellaris to me

 

[duncaholic]

looks ocellaris to me

+1

 

[JamesJR]

Looks like an ocellaris to me as well. Not that this applies to your case but I thought I would mention that I had a pair of ocellaris where the male darkened up quite a bit as he got older. I don't know if it was the lighting or that it was from it being hosted by several different corals.

 

[WaffleWalffle22]

SA Fancy Ocellaris. You can check out mine here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8r0aGWtJB8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[cannon77]

This is the issue, it MAY be captive bred. The parents could be WILD caught with the chance of one of the parents being a wild hybrid of sorts. Mom or dad could have looked like a "normal" Ocellaris but still carried the gene of a once wild hybrid. Once collected from the wild and thought to be a "normal" Ocellaris and paired as such. Passed the gene of the former hybridization to the new fry and now I have a beautiful fish of unknown origin. From what I have gathered so far, he is supposed to be a Sustainable Aquatics "Fancy" Ocellaris. What makes them "fancy" and what lineage do they have on the broodstock that these "fancy" Ocellaris come from?

 

[WaffleWalffle22]

This is the issue, it MAY be captive bred. The parents could be WILD caught with the chance of one of the parents being a wild hybrid of sorts. Mom or dad could have looked like a "normal" Ocellaris but still carried the gene of a once wild hybrid. Once collected from the wild and thought to be a "normal" Ocellaris and paired as such. Passed the gene of the former hybridization to the new fry and now I have a beautiful fish of unknown origin. From what I have gathered so far, he is supposed to be a Sustainable Aquatics "Fancy" Ocellaris. What makes them "fancy" and what lineage do they have on the broodstock that these "fancy" Ocellaris come from?

SA Fancy Ocellaris have a lineage of just orange Ocellaris that were bred to have more black coloration. Your clown is tank bred because wild clowns are more yellow and captive-raised clowns are more orange.

I am 99.9% sure what you have is an SA Fancy Ocellaris and is in no way a hybrid. Any clown anywhere could have hybrid genes.

 

[cannon77]

SA Fancy Ocellaris have a lineage of just orange Ocellaris that were bred to have more black coloration. Your clown is tank bred because wild clowns are more yellow and captive-raised clowns are more orange.

I am 99.9% sure what you have is an SA Fancy Ocellaris and is in no way a hybrid. Any clown anywhere could have hybrid genes.

So let me see if I got this right.........
The female Perc in the above pictures that I know is 100% captive bred and raised, from captive bred and raised broodstock and is more YELLOW than orange.....is a wild caught specimen? Sorry, but your theory on color is very far of base. Can you show any reference to this, like a known and trusted website or source? The color variants of ALL fish, saltwater or fresh, is only a sign of what region that strain is originaly from. If I were to pair my Solomon Island female (pictured above) with another Solomon Island, they would produce the same color variant......more YELLOW than orange. So with that, how would that be possible since the fry would be captive bred and raised? There are many species of Clowns that are yellow and have been captive bred and raised.
Also, you state that my male "is in no way a hybrid" then turn around and say "Any Clown anywhere could have hybrid genes" If you think that, then how is mine in no way a hybrid? Just curious as to your thinking on this?

I dont doubt he is an SA "fancy" ocellaris but I want to know where the original broodstock came from and what SA knows about the gene pool they are selling. More than likely, the male will be pulled from my breeding setup and I will pair the female with a male of known lineage and genes. I dont mind a hybrid pair but I will not have any fish in our breeding program without knowing the full background and lineage first!!

 

[elegance coral]

Your clown is tank bred because wild clowns are more yellow and captive-raised clowns are more orange.

I'm sorry, but that statement simply is not true.

 

[phender]

If you need to know about the lineage of the SA ocellaris, why don't you just write or call them.
http://www.sustainableaquatics.com/

 

[cannon77]

Already working on that, waiting on a response from SA, see what they can say???

 

[lilyost4290]

im not an expert by any means, but it kind of looks like a mocha ocellaris to me.

 

[ct_vol]

From what I have gathered so far, he is supposed to be a Sustainable Aquatics "Fancy" Ocellaris. What makes them "fancy" and what lineage do they have on the broodstock that these "fancy" Ocellaris come from?

From what I understand, the "fancy" Ocellaris were mainly those that showed charactaristics similar to yours with a thicker black band outlining the fins and white stripes... They were then paired and selectively bred to bring out the darker traits, as with most "designer" clownfish... I may be wrong, but I think that is what I recall Matt saying...

 

[WaffleWalffle22]

Captive-bred Ocellaris are orange to red-orange (like the Ocellaris that the OP owns), while wild-caught Ocellaris are more of a yellow color. Just my experience. The female perc isn't yellow at all.

 

[Fishboy42]

Hello Cannon77 and all! I'm fairly certain that your fish is an "SA Fancy," especially since you have provided some pictures of it when it was younger. As far as we know, they do not have any black ocellaris background but were selected-for from regular orange ocellaris that had nice black outlines--the dramatic black color development has been a surprise to us as well--check-out some shots:

Juveniles (some showing darkening pattern already):

Adult with some darker coloration:

Mature adult with very dark coloration:

Pair with eggs (female's name is Morticia, male is Gomez ):

We are working on another line that also originates from an (unrelated) orange ocellaris line--these turn black from the nose first--really bizarre and just goes to show how these things can turn-up.

The "Mocha" clown available from several breeders (a cross between the black and orange variants of ocellaris--marketed as "Caramel" by some I think) usually have a single-color body with a "rusty" brown/orange color.

This came-up in another thread with WaffleWaffle22's fish here:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1949068&highlight=sa+fancy

I hope this helps!

Matt C.

 

[cannon77]

Captive-bred Ocellaris are orange to red-orange (like the Ocellaris that the OP owns), while wild-caught Ocellaris are more of a yellow color. Just my experience. The female perc isn't yellow at all.

This statement is not true by any means. I have both WC and CB Ocellaris and Percs that have the same coloration. By your post, I could find a WC True Perc from the Solomon Islands and breed it with my current Solomon Island True Perc and the fry will be orange not the "yellow" color of both parents just because they were captive bred. The colors are not a result of being CB or WC, they are just natural occuring variants based on where the species came from. Two Ocellaris from the same WC location will make fry of the same color variant in captivity as will any Perc. And yes my female Perc is far more yellow than orange, if you would like to send a fancy camera I would be happy to take some good pictures so you can see her color. All I have is a point and shoot which takes worse pictures than my cell phone.