Club Coral Fragbank

[JaimeAdams]

A few of your newly elected BoD have been discussing the possibility of starting a club frag bank or frag library. This is not a new concept. The MTRC has their version of this and that is where the idea originated. So a big thanks to those folks. I have changed it a bit to suit us better this is just an idea we have been throwing around but since it is your club, I want your feedback! The basic concept is that the club will start a coral frag bank from which club members will be able to get frags of more popular cultivares for a small fee. Here are some of the things that I am thinking which I am sure will evolve a bit if you as club members decide to give your consent.


Here is how I picture this.

First off to participate you must be a paid member in good standing. At first the club will solicit donations from club members. Any person who donates a frag to the club frag bank will always reserve the right to ask for the next available frag back in case of loss from their own tank.

The board of directors will pick which frags and from whom to purchase them from based off of general membership interest in said cultivars. The most requested cultivars should be at the top of the list for purchasing.

There should be coral for all skill level of aquarist. We will ask the membership body for their "œwish lists" to gauge what the club members would like to see us get.

The original piece will always remain in the clubs frag tank.

Any member in good standing may request any frag in the club's frag bank. As a frag becomes available all names will be put in a hat and selected at random.

Once a cultivar has not been requested by any member for over 3 months the frag will be sold and the proceeds will go towards to purchase of new coral for the coral frag bank.

 

[Pittsburgh]

The original piece will always remain in the clubs frag tank.

More on this please...

 

[JaimeAdams]

More on this please...

Meaning that the original frag that we receive will remain in the clubs frag tank for as long as we deem it viable. Lets say after 2 years everyone that wants a frag off of a particular piece receives it and there is no longer any interest in it. Well, the original donor is covered because there are now many copies among the club. At that point we will sell the original to put money back into the fragbank.

The club where I got the idea from passes out the frag and the member keeps whatever new growth they get in a set period of time. For example the club gives them a frag of 3 hallucination polyps and they grow the frag to 7 polyps, they would give back 3 polyps and keep the rest.

I do not see the reason to pass a frag between multiple tanks multiple times and risk picking up pests or even just having it acclimate a bunch of times. I think that it would be better to leave it in a single stable environment and to then give out frags from the original piece that way.

Did that clarify your question?

This is all preliminary so we are certainly open to everyone's opinions and suggestions.

 

[Pittsburgh]

Sorry, Jaime. The highlighted portion, specifically the "club frag tank" is what I was asking about...

 

[JaimeAdams]

Sorry, Jaime. The highlighted portion, specifically the "club frag tank" is what I was asking about...

Ahhh... yes. The idea is to start a club frag tank. We do not currently have one. We were offered a great deal on an all-in-one with skimmer and LED. Greg Sweich also said that we could use the frag tank inline with his system that we saw at last months meeting.

 

[Drone]

Would frags need to be catalogued? Maybe on a thread in here? We can have donation thread with pics of mother colonies to gauge interest and then a current available frag thread. Or am I overthinking this like most things?

Kevin

 

[JaimeAdams]

The club where I got the idea from uses it more like a wish list. Everyone suggests things that they would like to see. For example if 10 of us are all like we would really like Oregon Tort the club would purchase the frag and as it grows and a piece becomes available we would basically have a members only raffle for all who are interested. Then the same as it grows and another piece becomes available.

There wouldn't really ever be a stockpile of colonies ready to be fragged because once everyone who is interested gets a frag we would then sell the original piece and put the proceeds into buying something new. For example once the 10 of us that want the Oregon Tort receive frags of it and no other member requests a frag for a period of time we would sell the Oregon Tort.

If we have access to pictures of a full colony of something that we have in the fragbank I don't see a problem with posting them. Or pictures of the banks growing frag if it is something obscure. The other club uses this to purchase well known cultivars of which no need to describe it in words or pictures is needed. For example everyone knows or can easily find out what Oregon Tort looks like. There is no real need for us to catalogue it. However if I donate some random coral I got from a transhipment that has no known lineage or history then yes we would obviously want to be able to share pictures and/or description for people to see if they want it or not.

I see this as the original idea starters, more of a way to get certain things that may be out of our individual price ranges not as a way to just trade common stuff. If someone wants a frag of frogspawn they should feel fine about asking around in the club for someone that can cut them a frag. We don't have the room to simply back up or grow out a ton of stuff that is easily acquired from a local store or any number of members tanks. Back to my example. Let's say Oregon Tort sells for $100. If 10 members put Oregon Tort on their wanted list and the club charges a nominal fee of $10 or $20 to check the coral out the fragbank. We all get a coral which might be a bit too expensive for some for a cheap price, but at the same time the club isn't lossing money just buying expensive coral and giving it away. Or possibly we give out the first frag free every year with paid membership. Those are things to be discussed and decided upon as a group.

I also see this as a perk of being a club member. If this works out and in time the club is growing out bounce mushrooms, jawbreaker mushrooms, rainbow chalices, JF homewreck, Walt Disney, orange passion, blah blah blah and any member is good standing has access to the coral fragbank I think its a good bet to drive up membership and give a big perk to our members compared to our visitors. Also it may be another reason to have some of our older members start coming to meetings again. If all I have to do is pay my dues and actually come to a couple meetings and at some point I will win the opportunity to be able to get a rainbow chalice frag for a $20 donation. I don't know I see this is a win.

Granted this is what some of us have been discussing. It's YOU GUYS that need to let us know if you like it or not. I may be the president, but it's about what the general membership wants to see.

 

[JaimeAdams]

This shouldn't be a way to cut our sponsoring stores out of selling members common coral or a "here is a frag of my green slimmer so you guys can give out frags of it so I don't have to worry about doing so". It should in my opinion be about the reasons stated in my previous posts. Granted starting out I don't see us going and spending several grand buying the newest most hyped coral out there. But lets say we receive donations and spend several hundred dollars and once we distribute frags and get the investment back we then purchase more and over time we will be able to amass a nice collection and provide it to all of our members who want it.

 

[JaimeAdams]

One thing that is important to me if we do move ahead and follow through on this idea is that there remains stuff there for everyone. I know that some of us are going to start naming the newest and most hyped hard to keep demanding acros. This needs to be for all of our members. We need to have things for all skill level, not just sps. I want this to benefit the person who has been keeping reef tanks for 30 years as well as the person who joined the club to learn how to set up their first tank.

Personally I don't keep many soft coral, nor do I want to, however to some people that is their thing and we need to cater to all of our members and all skill levels. While my wish list might be all acros, others might be all mushrooms and we should strive to include all tastes.

 

[Drone]

Neat idea. I think it would work.

I personally wouldn't be able to give a wish list because I don't know names. I'd be describing them as "the blueish green one with pinkish red tips and polyps, that has thicker branches" so unless there were pics available I really wouldn't know what was what.

I am sure most know the names of what they want , I'm just ID challenged.

Kevin

 

[acer]

Yep, pics r a good idea, along with a dedicated thread. Occasion update pics as well.

 

[Drone]

Maybe in the forum dedicated to members only.

 

[Drone]

OK. Here's the start of my list.

Mango Passion
RR Poison Ivy
Mantis Purple Polyp Aculeas
Daves Skittle Acro
Paletta Pink Tip
Boy Blue Table
RRU Pink Floyd
RR CA CJ Pinky
Z's Tropics
Oregon Tort
Cali Tort
Rainbow Crush Chalice

Z's and P's

Fruitloops
Rastas
Blue Hornets
Predators Blood
Jason Fox Atomic Sunrise
Tigers Blood
Fruitloops

Comments?

Kevin

 

[Pittsburgh]

So let's take the oregon tort example. Ten of us want a frag. the club buys a small frag, puts it in the club frag tank and lets it grow a bit. As it grows, each new frag is raffled off to those ten who wanted it originally. Once the demand is gone, what's left of the frag is sold off.

The benefit is kind of obvious, in theory multiple club members get their frag much cheaper than retail. The risk is that the original frag won't make it in the frag tank, or it won't grow much, or it won't grow enough to satisfy the original demand, or by the time it grows the original demand disappears, or by the time it grows and the demand is satisfied, the retail cost of the frag goes down enough that it's not worth selling. And so on, you get the idea...

Playing devils advocate, couldn't we achieve the same benefit by just group buying an expensive large colony of oregon tort and fragging it to those wanted it in the first place. Assuming that larger colonies are available. It would probably in the end cost the same and we avoid all the risks.

Generally, I'm in favor of having a backup tank somewhere, completely decoupled from my system, where I can donate frags of my overgrown sps colonies. Others can benefit from my frags all they want, so long as there is always a frag for me for when my system crashes. I also think that such a system would be a better incremental step, which doesn't require additional investments into new frags and doesn't have associated risks. But it doesn't fit well into the concept of a frag tank where same frags don't stay long.

 

[JaimeAdams]

So let's take the oregon tort example. Ten of us want a frag. the club buys a small frag, puts it in the club frag tank and lets it grow a bit. As it grows, each new frag is raffled off to those ten who wanted it originally. Once the demand is gone, what's left of the frag is sold off.

Yes, we would either sell off what is left, or keep it and sell frags at our annual frag swap depending on how we decide to proceed with this whole idea. Also it would not be only the ten who originally wanted it, it would also be to new members or members who's skill has improved or tastes have changed and then also want it.

The benefit is kind of obvious, in theory multiple club members get their frag much cheaper than retail. The risk is that the original frag won't make it in the frag tank, or it won't grow much, or it won't grow enough to satisfy the original demand, or by the time it grows the original demand disappears, or by the time it grows and the demand is satisfied, the retail cost of the frag goes down enough that it's not worth selling. And so on, you get the idea...

Yes, all of those are possibilities. Granted I don't see the original frag not being worth selling. Even old time pieces still sell at the swaps and on the forums. Granted if we say buy a JF Homewrecker frag I doubt that after 2 years we will get a grand for it, but we would still get a couple hundred. It's possible that something like Oregon Tort is so slow growing that only a few people get a frag and the rest source it else where. Those are possibilities.

Playing devils advocate, couldn't we achieve the same benefit by just group buying an expensive large colony of oregon tort and fragging it to those wanted it in the first place. Assuming that larger colonies are available. It would probably in the end cost the same and we avoid all the risks.

I see your point. First have you ever seen a large colony of Oregon tort for sale? How about large colonies of any RR Acros? I've seen jawbreaker colonies for sale, but not for under $100+ per baby. If everyone in the club wanted some rasta zoas then a group buy might be in order, but for the things I would want or the things that the ETRC guys who gave us the idea buy there simply aren't colonies available or the cost for a colony isn't any cheaper.

Also one big point is that this isn't only about getting cheap high end frags. This is about growing the club and giving back to our members. This is a perk of being a member.

Generally, I'm in favor of having a backup tank somewhere, completely decoupled from my system, where I can donate frags of my overgrown sps colonies. Others can benefit from my frags all they want, so long as there is always a frag for me for when my system crashes. I also think that such a system would be a better incremental step, which doesn't require additional investments into new frags and doesn't have associated risks. But it doesn't fit well into the concept of a frag tank where same frags don't stay long.

The person who donates a frag will always have first dibs on the next available frag as stated in my first post. At first most of the things in the frag bank will be donated frags. This will be a way to back up your best pieces, but yes only for a time. However, if you donate Coral A and 8 club members get a piece from it before we need to cull to make room for other things then in theory you should be able to ask 8 different people for a frag back. Also how long is it going to take to grow that coral in order to frag it 8 times. Granted if I donate some crappy coral that no one wants, then yeah it probably won't be backed up much.

 

[acer]

Lol , I am usually the one playing devil's advocate.

 

[Pittsburgh]

Ted, didn't mean to step on your turf, feel free to take over

Jaime, I think you got my point. I've oversimplified things deliberately to keep it short and simple.
To summarize, I'm concerned that the benefits/risks ratio, especially with higher end expensive frags purchased with real club cash, is somewhat uncomfortable. At least to me, at least for now.

WRT other points. I follow online fragswap pages pretty closely and I have seen fraggable colonies of high end corals pop up all the time. A decent colony of oregon tort was available on ebay two weeks ago from a reputable seller and still didn't sell for under $200. A much larger colony was available about a month ago on a frag swap page on FB. Pretty much anything other than the latest craziest releases can be sources in a fraggable size.

I do see most of your points, including club benefits from member participation, retention, etc., and using the club tank to spread frags around the club for backup purposes, and that it's not only about high end hard to keep sps. And for all those reasons the idea is worth considering. Once it's proven to work at that level, it would then make sense to consider what essentially is rapid frag propagation at the club level. We may not be there just yet.

 

[acer]

Yep- I think starting with frags from our existing set ups first is a better idea - rather than spending club cash. This way it will prevent/delay the eventual club member thinking " how come the corals that I want are not bought for the coral frag bank" - also - it puts much less stress and responsibility on Greg to keep the frags healthy and growing because club $$ were spent on them. I still think club members should be fragging their own corals and giving frags to other club members anyhow - as a kind of backup in case you have a tank crash. Then you can ask for a frag back of what you gave someone.

I have Hollywood stunner ready for the frag bank - or for whomever may want some. LOL- it grows like a weed in my setup. Of coarse, seems like lately this coral and my hair algae are the o-n-l-y things growing in my tank.

 

[JaimeAdams]

Alex - I don't do Facebook, so maybe you should be the one to find all of these things for us I did see the oregon tort on ebay, but it wasn't all that big. The last frag swap we were at Oregon tort frags at 1 inch were selling for $50. Granted I only used oregon tort as a name placer, you could switch that name out for any other.

If some of us want to do a group buy sort of thing for larger fraggable colonies of things that is something we could arrange if there is interest. That is not far off from what some of us have already done with colonies at swaps and people breaking down their tanks. However it's not the same as a what the original idea is.

Ted - As I have said I think at first most things will be from donations. I however do think we should spend funds, with the amount to be determined. Granted that would come from a membership vote even though really it is a BoD decision, I still think we should ask the club.

I totally agree with members fragging their corals and giving them out to members. This should happen outside of the idea of a club fragbank.

This is all preliminary ideas. If you all don't think the risk vrs reward ratio is good enough you will have the opportunity to vote against us moving forward with it. If you want to see it move forward you will also have the opportunity to vote on it.

 

[zelie_dad]

I don't what many of these corals everyone is mentioning are, but I like the idea, and it would be a nice perk to drum up new members. Especially if someone's on the fence, they come to a meeting and see <insert expensive coral name here> up for raffle, but they can't participate because they are not a club member.

I just say start doing it. I'm seeing the start of a paralysis by analysis going on with this.

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