Collecting Invertibrates in California

[borillion_star]

I have some questions about what to apply for, I want to as an
individual resident collect several species of marine invertebrates that are very common the the pacific coast along our shores here.

None are endangered, in particular I was interested in collecting
Giant Green Anemone (Anthopleura xanthogrammica) with the intent of keeping them and others some others in a controlled environment. (Aquarium)

Is the Scientific Collecting Permit Application form FG1379 what I need to fill out? Or am I going to need something else? If I where to get a large population and wished to give the offspring to others what then?

They are very picky, they want to know exactly what you will be taking, how many of them and what you will be doing with them (as if they have to ask )

 

[GreshamH]

Unless you truly have a scientific/education need/connection, they are off limits for aquarium collection and those permits are harder to get then concealed gun permits in CA. All tide pool animals are 100% protected now so you can forget shore walking for them.

 

[borillion_star]

Thats really harsh, I understand that they don't want people to go and tear up destroy/harvest/kill everything in sight. It however, is unfair to those who actually try and go about it the legal way.

What about pulling these critters off the sides of boats that have been sitting in a marina for a long time?

 

[MileHighFish]

plus the water is in the 60's that would be tough to recreate at home???

 

[borillion_star]

Well actually if you do research, some of the animals range from here all the way to parts of Mexico where the water temp is 73 to 80 degrees F, under a fishing permit you can collect all sorts of stuff.

 

[El-ahrairah]

Just because a species ranges from N. California to S. Mexico, it doesn't mean that it can tolerate the full temperature range encompassed by the geography.

If you collect the invertebrate from 65 degree water, it is going to be most comfortable in 65 degree water.

For the majority of the invertebrates (including intertidal) found off the coast of California from San Diego going North, they will not survive for long in temperatures greater than 68-70 degrees.

In particular Anthopleura xanthogrammica is a cold water anenome and would only survive in a 65 degree aquarium.

-Michael

 

[coolwaves]

I concur... even at similar latitudes, the west coast of Mexico (and the Americas in general) is much cooler than the east due to the difference in direction of flow to/from the tropics/poles and, in some cases, upwelling. Northern Mexico waters can get as low as the mid 50's F at certain times of the year. Most important to us aquarists, we need to understand that some creatures, such as temperate anemones like Anthopleura, Urticina, etc. actually LIKE the "cold" (for example, because it is more rich in oxygen, often contains more nutrients, etc.). Consequently, even though Anthopleura may be found in 65 F water it really prefers something like 55 F.
You need a chiller (and the right collection permits) to maintain these animals. I encourage you to try it, I have kept many of these creatures and find temperate aquaria really rewarding.

 

[borillion_star]

Thanks for the input coolwaves at this point Im really fighting myself over wanting to start a cold water water reef system, but at the moment Im focusing on getting everything for my planned 8'x3'x3' together.

Its a bit more than just getting a prebuilt system hehe, hopefully Ill get all the little issues worked out, like the returns heh, after that its down to figuring out how to get in the room its going, the door frame makes it a cm shy of 3 feet and getting it in there.

 

[borillion_star]

This site is just one great example http://www.oregonreef.com/sub_coldwater.htm

 

[Putawaywet]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13497968#post13497968 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by borillion_star
Thats really harsh, I understand that they don't want people to go and tear up destroy/harvest/kill everything in sight. It however, is unfair to those who actually try and go about it the legal way

Well... not all that harsh IMO when you stop to think about the fact that you are really just looking to stock your new aquarium. And that's perfectably Ok idea on your part as long as you understand that a higher power has the right to tell you it's not. Rest assured that you're not the first to think of this novel idea, nor will you be the last.

Many specimens can indeed be legally collected. You just need the proper credentials and then apply for the proper permits to do so. It's the proper credentials part that trips up us common folk.

Brett

 

[MileHighFish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13545095#post13545095 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by borillion_star
Well actually if you do research, some of the animals range from here all the way to parts of Mexico where the water temp is 73 to 80 degrees F, under a fishing permit you can collect all sorts of stuff.

i lived for 30 yrs in so-cal (orange county) go swimming there in the winter, i bet the water is not 73 - 80.. if that was the case surfers wouldnt be wearing a full wet suit.. normally you even wear a spring suit in the summer

 

[borillion_star]

LOL I know, that what Im saying, I have seen them living in tide pools there too. I have a separate 50 gal I have setup and am getting ready to put some test animals in there with some coral I got from a friend to see how they get along.

Im gathering what is legal with a fishing permit, like Urchins and the like.

 

[coolwaves]

what temp are you going to run this system at?

 

[borillion_star]

75 degrees, I think that should be ok, ill see how an urchin handles it for a month, with the coral and then move it in.

 

[OceanDweller]

I surf and am going haloween, we just started wearing wetsuits about a month ago and nearly everybody wears boardshorts during the summer. There is a really big swing in the water from the early morning to the night during the summer vs the gulf/east coast. I suppose its the large size of body of water and change in air temp?

 

[borillion_star]

Yes, water temp has do to somewhat with ambient air temperatures and the fact that the earth tilts away from the sun where we are during the winter and gets less direct heating to the surface of the ocean and water temps drop to the 60's, the opposite for the summers.

The California coast gets more sun in the summer, the temps around there can get into the 70's while the air temp is about 80 to 90, water heats and cools slower than the air or the land around it.

Heh where you surf at don't have a wet suit, so Ill come watch everyone :eek1: :lol:

Not that I know how to surf......:lol:

 

[GreshamH]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13650226#post13650226 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by borillion_star

The California coast gets more sun in the summer, the temps around there can get into the 70's while the air temp is about 80 to 90, water heats and cools slower than the air or the land around it.
:lol:

????The water gets 70 around here? Not even during El Nino on a 120 degree day does our water get 70 degrees 60's are even stretching it

Tide pools can get in the upper 90s, but only the upper splash zone. But it is illegal to take anything from CALI tide pools, permit or no permit, especially around here.

 

[borillion_star]

LOL Im talking about seeing isolated tide pools getting to be pretty warm!

Otherwise I was talking in a general way that the water during the summer gets warmer cause we get more sun based on the earths tilt.

:rolleye1: I kinda stuck it all together. Honestly though I have seen water temps of 66-68 degrees F 70 degrees a stretch?


On another note I was gonna go to Utah for Thanksgiving and visit the Bonneville Oolitic sand dunes is that a good idea?? Maybe get some brine shrimp

 

[borillion_star]

http://geology.utah.gov/utahgeo/rockmineral/collecting/oolitic.htm

 

[borillion_star]

Its the same general idea, collecting items and creatures for use in the tank.