Complete Newbie - need some advice and perhaps some sand?

[HollieR14]

Hello Everyone:

I joind the MTRC today. My husband and I are setting up a new 90 gallon tank. I have some questions maybe some of you can help with- please excuse me if I am not completely up to speed on everything- we really want to do this right and not kill everything and loose a bunch of $$$....

So- I ordered some dry rock as to avoid bad critters that sometimes come with live rock. When the rock gets here do I still need to cure it for a week before we out it in the tank? Also do I then add someting called bio spira to cycle the tank? I heard that I can add a damsel but then I heard that having the fish in there before the tank is cycled may kill it and then if it does not the fish may turn out to be a bully later. So the guy who sold me the rock told me to get something called turbo 900 or bio spira....

Also- we need our aqarium moved upstairs and I can'thelp my husband with it. Has anyone founf a small mover to help with stuff like this- we live in Franklin

Last one- I talked to a guy at Emerald bay today who said I also need some dirty sand from an extablished tank to get my sand bed gowing with the right stuff...Does anyone have any they want to part with


Ok enough newbie babble for now- help is appreciated

Hollie

 

[CKreef]

Sent PM

 

[waynesworld]

I would use a green chromes not a damsel unless you want to fish him out later they tend to get aggressive or you can use some freshwater Mollies and change them to sw not hard they are cheaper. If you need or want some sand I have some you can have. I will pm you my phone number.

 

[NeveSSL]

Hi Hollie!

First off, welcome to MTRC!

As for your rock, you will not need to cure it as there is nothing dead on it. Curing is generally when you have rock thats shipped to you has a bunch of dead stuff on it that you want to get off and let die off.

You will want to cycle the tank with your rock in it. There are several ways to do this. Some people use a cooked shrimp. Just throw it in the tank and let it rot. Other people use fish. You can use damsels or, as Wayne pointed out, mollies will work too (just make sure you acclimate them to the salt water... don't want to just throw them into the SW tank straight out of freshwater ). I wouldn't even worry about Bio Spira or any of the other "instant cyclers". Just do it the old fashioned way and you won't have to worry about whether it works or not.

Are you familiar with the water cycle?

And the guy at Emerald Bay is correct... a little seeding sand will help.

Brandon

 

[leezer]

I'll be coming to October's meeting (as well as bringing my MTRC app & dues) down at Fins of Franklin. If you'll be coming, I'll happily bring a little baggie of the GARF grunge that I received about 2 weeks ago. I only got 2 pounds of it, so I'll probably only bring a small baggie of it which will seem like a drop in a 5 gallon bucket when put into your 90 gal, but any bacterial diversity is better than no bacterial diversity in my mind. Just let me know if you want me to bring it.

 

[HollieR14]

Hello Everyone:

Thanks so much for your kind replies. If I am able to make it to the next meeting I will and let you know....and all who have kindly offered me sand and grunge(i have NO idea what tis is) so you can bring it. I think I have found a mover and hopefully he will show up tomorrow so we can get the aquarium upstairs and get water in the tank and get the plumbing tested this weekend. Then if the rock gets here I can begin cycling.....Best Regards

Hollie :rollface:

 

[NeveSSL]

Awesome, Hollie! Keep us updated.

Brandon

 

[CKreef]

You will need to cure marco rocks!!!!!! They are known to be very dirty. Search threads on here it can take a while to cook this rock!!

 

[undertcontrolj]

Welcome to the club. I am a newbie to and have got plenty of help. The thing that i have learned is slow and steady. Don't go cheap on equipment and research everything.

 

[NeveSSL]

Well put, undercontrolj.

Brandon

 

[DMBillies]

Crap... I forgot to stop typing...sorry for the book.

I think we're throwing some words around that are ill-defined and very likely to confuse a newb... (curing, cooking, cycling, etc.). Not trying to be pompous with this post, but I think this stuff can be pretty confusing for new people and I feel the need to clear these up.

Hollie - please forgive me if this is too elementary, but I'm assuming for the time being that you don't know anything about live rock or the nitrogen cycle.

Depending on how dirty the rock is, you'll need to do more or less to the rock before you get a tank running... which is basically what all the above words are talking about.

For all dry rock you will need to get them in saltwater and establish the bacteria responsible for the nitrogen cycle that will keep your tank healthy. This is called cycling a tank. If there is any waste already in the rocks, it is quite likely that there is plenty of stuff in the rock to really kick off the growth of these bacteria. There are plenty of other ways to try to help speed up the process (adding a cooked shrimp, adding a 1 or 2 hardy fish, adding bio spira or other tank cycling products, GARF grunge, etc.).

As your tank builds bacterial populations, you'll "see" increase in (1) ammonia, (2) nitrites, (3) nitrates, (4) nitrogen gas. Each step in the cycle "feeds" the next, so as your tank starts to build bacteria, you will see ammonia go up, then nitrites, and so on. Since the next step in the cycle consumes the product of the last step, ammonia will start to drop of, then nitrates, and so on as the cycle is established in the tank and reaches equilibrium. Your tank is done when denitrifying bacteria in the oxygen free areas of your liverock and sand (and water changes) reduce your nitrates to very low levels.

My advice for cycling is to definitely avoid damsels. It is difficult to catch fish out of a reef if they turn into bullies when you start adding more fish. Also, I think it can be kind of cruel to put a fish through a cycle at least until your ammonia and nitrites are dropping off and at a low level. Other products can probably help, but there is no substitute for a little patience (only bad things happen fast in this hobby).

As CKReef said, Marco rock and some other dry rocks can have quite a bit of dead stuff in them particularly if they are not rinsed/washed before they are dried. If your rock is dirty, you'll basically have to take a little bit of time to allow the rock to soak (preferably in the dark so you don't get algae growth, with lots of flow). You'll also need to do frequent water changes and swirling the rock in the water to get the die off out of the rock and away from it (so that your rock doesn't have to process the huge amounts of waste that will be in the water). This is called curing and you basically need to do it with most dry rock and all but the very freshest (or already cured) live rock. Usually the curing process will result in also cycling the tank since the dead stuff in the water column provides plenty of waste to process.

Cooking is basically long-term curing in complete darkness to try to get built up phosphates out of your rock. It has been argued that accumulation of phosphates happens in live rock over time and that it becomes necessary to "freshen up" rock. If your rock is new rock, it is very unlikely you'll be concerned with cooking (and hopefully never), but I mention it because it was posted and if you search cooking you'll end up with much different results than curing or cycling.

My $.02...

I'd throw your dry rock in a rubbermaid (no light) with a heater and lots of flow. Swirl your rock in a clean bucket of water while you do at least a 50% water change every 2-3 days for a couple of weeks (getting the majority of the waste out of the rock is the goal). Test the rock water for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates and see how the cycle progresses during that time. If the rocks seem to stop producing more nasties in a couple of weeks and the your ammonia and nitrites drop to 0, I would move the rock to your tank and keep it pretty wet as you set it up. Let set a few more days.

If you're still getting a lot of nasties out of the rock after 2 weeks, let them set a little longer and maybe reduce your water change schedule to once every 4-5 days as long as you are seeing a reduction in the gunk being produced.

Once your ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates are all low and the rock is in your tank, you might throw in a small fish or two (I'd agree with chromis') to make sure that you don't get ammonia spikes and that your tank can maintain the low levels...voila you are cycled.

Remember to add fish slowly even once the tank is cycled so that you don't get another cycle as the fish add more waste to the tank than the established bacterial populations can handle.

Hope that helps and good luck.

 

[HollieR14]

Ok- got it- thanks brian- marcorocks has been taking so long i may cancel and go somewhere else- since i did not hear from the mover tonight it looks like it will be more time anyway before we can even get the water going, in all fairness the guy at marcorocks did tell me that the fiji rcok needed to be soaked....so it looks iike i will be doing the runndermaid thing anyway- i am trying to learn what not to do .....and am committed to the patience thing - although it is difficult to wait...i like the chromis better as well but i certainly dont want to torture the little guys...so if the rock and the sand fron y'all will do the bacteria thing I will wait to put fish in until i am confident I am not going to kill them right away - thanks

 

[DMBillies]

It is a wait, but I got marco rock and I was quite happy with it. Very pourous, nice looking, and a pretty darn good price. With it being dry and so porous, I think a 90 could be filled moderately full with about 50lbs... which gets you a lot more than some of the more dense rock I've seen.

Obviously, there are other options, but remember that this is a small hobby and it's on a wait because a lot of people that have gotten before have told their friends it is good stuff

 

[CKreef]

Another good rock is eco-rox. Thanks for clearing all that up Brian. Guess we sometimes just expect others to know what we mean.

 

[Angela Short]

<img src="/images/welcome.gif" width="500" height="62"><br><b><i><big><big>To Reef Central</b></i></big></big>

from a fellow gal reefer

I need to update my info as I am now in Franklin also... off 96 and Arno road so we are close. We will have to get together sometime!

 

[Angela Short]

OK, Updated my info and my current tank descriptions :lol:
The fish have been asking me for at least a heater, they said its been getting real chilly at night this past week!