Concerned about Choati Wrasse behavior

[slojmn]

I purchased a "pair" of Choati wrasses 12/2011 from Diver's Den. After 6-8 months I began to suspect that, despite the size difference, they were both male. They both had the distingushing marks of a male when i compared them to pictures. They got along fine for the most part. The larger one would occasionally chase the small one but never anything problematic. Fast forward to last night...the smaller one, who is not that much smaller anymore, was seriously chasing the big guy, even taking some swipes at the big one once most of the lights went out. I didn't notice any aggression until last night. He was stuck up in the corner for a bit. Once the smaller one bedded down the big guy left the corner and bedded down himself. The aggression was about 10-15 minutes of serious chasing under the blue glow of the final light. Everything seemed copacetic until then.

I have never seen anything like this kind of aggression between the two of them but I suspect something is amiss since their size is closer. I assumed they were female and male when I bought them as they were branded "paired" and they had a substantial size difference. I am curious to thoughts on the best course of action. They are both healthy, beefy choati wrasses who I absolutely adore. I don't want anything to happen to either of them but I fear the smaller one has decided to pick off the bigger guy. I will be watching them closely over the next few days to see if it continues, worsens, what time of day, etc.

Would love to hear any of you wrasse experts chime in.

 

[ca1ore]

I'm not all that experienced with Leopards, but have had loads of wrasses over the years and when faced with two males of the same species (or even similar species) have had to remove one.

BTW, I have never kept a Choati, but understand, even for Leopards, that they a sensitive - good job keeping them upright!

 

[evolved]

Sorry to hear about your troubles. Keeping wrasse pairs isn't always as straight forward as it might seem; sometimes females end up transitioning to male despite the presence of a male, and then you end up with the behavior you are seeing. Also, wrasses do not "bond" like clowns do; it's all about dominance and submission, more like with anthias.

Based off what you are describing, your fears are probably justified. You've described two rival males now. Whether they can "work out" their difference or if one offs the other is TBD. But personally, I'd intervene and pull one at this point. Once it gets to the point that one is forcing the other into hiding or cowering in a corner, things generally get worse from there. If nothing else, the smaller might stress the larger to death. Sorry.

FWIW, the difference between male/female is easy to distinguish if you note the differences in the pattern on the anal fin (a continuous line v. a broken pattern at its base). Yes, there are some differences in the facial markings/colors as well, but those are harder to spot with the untrained eye.

Male

Female

 

[slojmn]

Thanks Hunter, yep, I noticed the anal fin "sameness" early on and that is what triggered my thinking that I had two males back then. I appreciate your thoughts and feel that, while the incident was short lived, the large choati looked quite distressed. Despite their beefy and very healthy status it had me worried with the stress factor. I will be assessing through the next few days and may have to see if I can sell the big guy locally as he will easier to catch if he is up in the corner during a fracas. They are quick and agile swimmers and I suspect catching either of them will be challenging in a full blown reef.

 

[evolved]

Yeah, catching any wrasse tends not to be easy. A fish trap or a bottle trap might be worth a try.

Also, I failed to mention it's also common for the behavior you're seeing to be at its worst with only the actinics on, when they can see less.

 

[slojmn]

What do you think about the anal fin markings of my two Choati's?? They look to have the same markings on their...not completely unbroken though.

This first picture is the smaller of the two...I initially thought this was a female as the fish was so much smaller than the other one in the second picture. This is the fish that the larger one occasionally follows around a bit, not really chasing but not chummy either...relatively slow and not aggressive though. Then last night, this one (the smaller) went ape on the larger one as described in my post above.

Here is the larger one- sorry it is a bit blurry but he was difficult to catch and I suck at taking fish pictures!!

 

[evolved]

Both have the appearance of transitional males; the broken pattern is on it's way to become a solid line on both.

But as you can see, trying to visually determine when that pattern is broken and when it's starting to form a line, can make determining female from sub-male not so simple.

 

[slojmn]

Their behavior today is completely normal, not a care in the world for either of them. I'll have to see how it goes his evening. My guess is that it is just a matter of time before they both transition all of the way and fight it out for dominance? Does it seem that the sooner I separate them the better?

I really wish I could keep both of them as we have become quite attached to the two of them over the past year and a half.

 

[Big E]

Just a thought, I'm not a wrasse expert, but a lot of fish will show breeding behavior in those evening hours..............my anthias would do this all the time. If the agresssive behavior perists you could try to eliminate your evening lights and just go to straight full off.

That may make them go directly to sleep.

 

[slojmn]

Big E....You nailed it, as far as lights go. Last night I was waiting and watching. Literally the moment the main lights went off and the actinics were on the little guy made a "b" line for the big guy chasing him around the tank aggressively and the big guy ended up in the same corner. I immediately turned out the T5's and LED's and the tank was only lit with ambient room light. The aggressive chasing never resumed and both the Choatis cruised the tank as if they were happy as could be, within about 20 minutes they both bedded down. Today they were cruising all day like no big thing. So far there is no aggression during the morning actinic session. I plan to just shut down the lighting all at once from now on and see how they do. They actually were cruising side by side and all around each other last night once all of the lights went out. I didn't get any sense that any of this behavior was breeding behavior though. I have a pair of Candy Basslett's that do a breeding dance often along with a variety of other pairs over the years that I have watched pair off and do their thing. This is definitely more aggressive. So far things are going okay. Time will tell if they start in on each other during regular daylight hours. If so I'll pull one.

 

[slojmn]

My smaller choati jumped out of the tank tonight when all the lights were out, he hit this tiny sliver of an opening where my summer fan sits. He hit the back wall then the tile floor. I scooped him up and got him back in the tank immediately. He was stunned for sure because he didn't even flop around when I scooped him up. He sank to the bottom and just floated there for a few. I went to get the flashlight to look at him and by the time I got back, only moments really, he was gone. I suspect he swam to the back and went into the sand bed. I hope he is okay. I guess I'll know more tomorrow. Crossing my fingers he comes out in the morning like normal and that he isn't damaged from hitting the wall or floor. Uggg, these Choatis are suddenly stressing me out majorly!!!

 

[slojmn]

Little Spotty is out and cruising looking none the worst for his flight out of the tank last night,whew!!!! The LED's are on and there is no aggression between the two Choatis. I guess it's the night time issue I need to worry about. Ip think shutting out the lights all at once threw Little Spotty off last night, especially when we came home and moved around by the tank. My plan is to now shut all the lights off at once at the end of my light cycle and wait until the two bed down before we go walking by the tank.

 

[evolved]

A fair point about breeding behavior being initiated in the evening "twilight", but if it were courting/breeding behavior, it would be the "male" doing the initiating, not the "female".

Get that gap covered!

 

[Big E]

I think the point is that both look to be males now. Fish are probably hard wired or are insticntually going to breed during certain times.

The twilight may trigger this and any male is going to want to drive all competing males out of his territroy. It's not necessarily about wanting to breed with each other.

It's possible that the smaller one is more sexually mature than the larger one which promotes the aggressiveness even if it is still a female.

 

[evolved]

Fair points again; certainly plausible.

 

[slojmn]

So, Little Spotty, the sudden aggressor, has bedded down right when the MH light went out the last two nights so no aggression with the blue lights on only. They are both totally fine in the early hours with just the LED's and T5's on. So, all in all it has been quiet and back to normal for a couple of days. We'll see how it goes tonight. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out over the next month or two. I am not jumping to separate them until I absolutely have to.