concrete tank?

[edwar050]

what about mixing concretes? Like using regular concrete for the foundation and on the inside using portland type II concrete that is used for man made LR. All you would have to do is cure the tank. The cool part about doing that is that you would not have to paint the back or use any plastic. That and you could make some awsome caves systems.

 

[Atomahawk]

Wouldn't you be able to make the form out of concrete then fiberglass the thing? Yes it would be long and tedious work, but then again it's not an over night progect.

I don't know how rubber epdm would stand the test of time, I'm assumeing if it stays submerged it should stay plyable, even in salt water but can't say for sure. Theres also liquid rubber that is rolled on, this is used for ponds and fountains. I know my rubber lined ponds take some serious abuse up in Canada and have not showed any signs of giveing way.

 

[MayoBoy]

If you think poured concrete has a tendency to crack, good grief shotcrete is a million times more prone to cracking and stress faults.

That's strictly a matter of 1) mix, 2) steel, 3) application

I've been designing pools for 20 years and have never had a shell crack or fail. Of course we shoot a very dry mix, everything is double caged with #3 and #4 bar and we have excellent nozzlemen. We have 2 guys who do nothing but shovel rebound out of the shell (I've seen some companies who throw it in the floor) and our walls are 12" thick. There may be the occasional spider crack but those are strictly cosmetic.

I'd agree about the paint but even 200.00 a gallon epoxy is probably a bad idea when you consider the abrasive action of moving sand, rocks, etc.

 

[chipmaker]

Its a proven fact the polyurethanes are not as well suited to applications as a pond or tank liner as a polyurea product is. Two totally different animals. Polyurea is not a short form of polyurethane, its a totally different product. Its used in this area to spray directly on a geotextile fabric to form holding ponds etc in landfills, as well as directly on firm soils to make ponds for koi etc...

 

[BeanAnimal]

Chipmaker I suspect you have a decent knowledge of the products you are talking about. I however also, have what I would judge to be a fair amount of knowledge. I have placed millions of pounds of polyurethane products. I have done so in just about any water control situatio you could think of, and dozens you would never dream of.

Don't confuse a single component polyurethane (with or without catylist) with a dual component polyuretahne. I am not going to argue that other products are as well or better suited for certain projects or environments. I will however contend that there are plenty of dual poly blends that are more than suitable for tank lining. I am however very familiar with Polyurethanes (single and dual) and Polurea. I am not as familair with epoxy products but have used my fair share of those in an indutrail setting over the years as well. Again this comes down to hydrophobic and hydrophilic blends.

I would surely hope dual component urethanes were suitable for underwater use, becase I have used them on water control and sealing projects for everything from coal mines, to power plants and resevoir intake towers at treatment plants. We use them on government projects (they are spec'd) such as dams and spillways, tunnel, and a dozens of other places. Ohh and of course to waterproof tanks and similar vessels.

In any case it's not worth argueing over. 99.9% of the folks here could care less or will ever need to understand what we are talking about.

Bean

 

[BeanAnimal]

Mayo... Of course shotcrete can be placed well, and I am glad to hear your guys do it right. My point was that for a small job like this, a standard frame and poor technique would be better suited, unless of course the owner wants some freeform shape.

The last big shotcrete job I was on, was a people mover tunnel at the Dulles Airport.... what a mess. I am around Gunite on a regular basis also (tremendous amount of use in the coal mining industry).

Bean

 

[nellahtes]

basically what i want to do is build the sides,back, and the bottom in concrete. i do like the idea of being able to build and make a cave system in the back. so basically what i need to do is build the frame and pour the concrete into the mold. ok..heres another question. if i were to put this in my garage on the concrete floor would that be stable enough to hold it or do i need to put in a thicker area of concrete to hol dthe weight?

 

[boofer]

I feel your pain Bean, Ive cut/shot Gunite for years...Nasty job for sure....pays well for me though

 

[BeanAnimal]

You think Gunite is bad... you should play with this stuff called TEKFLEX. It is basically gunite mixed with PVA instead of water. Great stuff, high flexural strenght and not bad to apply.. cleanup sucks and hose plugs are worse.... Spray that crap in an 18' wide mine entry that is 5' high, lets just say the back splatter will turn you into a statue in no time. I have spent about 15 years applying specialty concrete and polyurethane products in the mining and construction industries (not to mention some dams, spillways, and a few other strange places)

With regards to this thread, A shotcrete shell would not be a bad way to go. However, the cost will be fairly high. Poured concrete is cheap compared to the prep work for shotcrete for something this small of a scale.

Then again, your local pool company may be able to cut you a pretty good deal. I am used to equipment that is A LOT bigger than what the pool guys use, or at least setup a lot different.

Also, you should be looking for "SHOTCRETE" applications, not GUNITE. Shotcrete is premixed cement shot from a nozzle, gunite is dry concrete shot with air and mixed with water at the nozzle. ( a web search will give you all of the info you want to know.



Bean

 

[nellahtes]

thanks guys

 

[boofer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6542299#post6542299 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
You think Gunite is bad... you should play with this stuff called TEKFLEX. It is basically gunite mixed with PVA instead of water. Great stuff, high flexural strenght and not bad to apply.. cleanup sucks and hose plugs are worse.... Spray that crap in an 18' wide mine entry that is 5' high, lets just say the back splatter will turn you into a statue in no time.
Bean

Sounds fun, but Im weird like that

 

[BeanAnimal]

Sorry for the OT: but it's kinda related

Remind me to tell you about the time I had 2000 LBS of dual component polyurethane expand and erupt out of a 160' deep 3" bore hole in a quary rim. Can you say scalding hot polyurethane valcano? It took me over a month to remove the stuff from my skin and hair.

 

[BubbaPhish]

Funny, but did anyone mention Fiberglass anywhere?
You could always use concrete block for the forms and then go back over and fiberglass it. Would be alot of fumes to deal with though, especially indoors. I think it would be a durable and quite do-able alternative though.
Just be sure to wear a respirator or else chance a MAJOR buzz and loss of quite a few brain cells.

 

[boofer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6550072#post6550072 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
Sorry for the OT: but it's kinda related

Remind me to tell you about the time I had 2000 LBS of dual component polyurethane expand and erupt out of a 160' deep 3" bore hole in a quary rim. Can you say scalding hot polyurethane valcano? It took me over a month to remove the stuff from my skin and hair.

Ouch!!

 

[BeanAnimal]

bubba, fiberglass is an option, but for the trouble and cost, there are much better products out there.

This is of course a matter of opinion.