Cone vs Regular
- Thread starter kl3377
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daveM100
What?
I prefer regular, mine has a bubble plate (not only on cones, on most skimmers), but I know the psk 100 does not. I've used both, and they both did and do their job, just preference I guess. I have the psk 100 that I used to run on a smaller system, for the price the things a beast and skims great.
ericarenee
New member
I think if they are designed well either will be fine. The Cone skimmers are said to have less turbulence and Bubble bursting making them more efficient. I know my New skimz simmer is partial cone and the water from the water line up looks pure solid white with no turbulence running with the air injection valve almost closed. Its amazing how much these much smaller bubble pump cone skimmers can pull for there size.. With that said. I conventional skimmer with the correct pump and adjusted right will be bigger for the same volume of water but will work just the same...
I Think smaller footprint is the biggest advantage..
I Think smaller footprint is the biggest advantage..
I am setting up a 35RR Rimless and have not decided if I want to plumb in to my basement or to the cabinet. If I put everything in the cabinet noise and space will be a concern, basement not so much. I can get a new S-120 for $240 or a new PSk-100 thru work for $130. Looking at pictures the way the pump is connected to the body on the PSK-100 looks sketchy but over $100 difference makes me wonder if its worth it.
ericarenee
New member
i think that psk would produce bubbles on the outflow and hard to adjust.. Check out bulkreefsupply.com . they carry only the Top Brands and have fair Prices... i have skimz sm-201
daveM100
What?
Mine ran great, no micro bubbles and it's actually easy to tune in.
bernie lyons
New member
cone vs regular
cone vs regular
cone skimmers are simply less efficient. They do not reduce turbulence and in fact take away volume to allow bubbles to create better contact time with the water. The only reason cones were manufactured was to reduce the cost of materials in manufacturing on a volume production basis - that's it !
Unfortunately cones have become "fashionable" much like a Fad.Performance wise, I've yet to see ANY manufacturer that produces "industrial" grade skimmers for public aquariums utilizing cone design skimmers where efficiency in contact time is vital to remove organics out of the water.
cone vs regular
cone skimmers are simply less efficient. They do not reduce turbulence and in fact take away volume to allow bubbles to create better contact time with the water. The only reason cones were manufactured was to reduce the cost of materials in manufacturing on a volume production basis - that's it !
Unfortunately cones have become "fashionable" much like a Fad.Performance wise, I've yet to see ANY manufacturer that produces "industrial" grade skimmers for public aquariums utilizing cone design skimmers where efficiency in contact time is vital to remove organics out of the water.
gcarroll
Active member
However they also reduce head pressure on the needlewheel pump resulting in increased air. This reduced head pressure also allows them to be taller which increases contact time. Might be a wash there.
False. Original ATB cones were formed on a mold by hand one at a time, then welded at the seam. This certainly was not done at a reduced costs as there is a lot of labor involved. That being said, over the years, many of the skimmer companies have turned to injection molding which has a high start up costs (price of the mold) but over time the cost gets much cheaper. Traditional skimmer companies can just as easily pay for a mold of their skimmer bodies and enjoy the same cost savings.
Simply because at those sizes, it's easier to uses the materials already on hand. Pound for Pound, commercial skimmers are no where close to the efficiency of the top hobbyist skimmers but when yoou inject the amount of ozone they do, it is the great equalizer!
Here is a commercial cone skimmer.
bernie lyons
New member
cones vs regular
cones vs regular
Increased air is the problem in a constricted body which doesn't allow to bring in proper amounts of water to come into contact with - that's an issue I'm afraid !
As far as cost to produce cone's ,initial start up costs are higher but as you have already pointed out when the injected molds have long been paid for the costs are cheaper compared to traditional skimmer design's.
Commercial skimmers are obviously higher costs to run but they process a huge amount of water to air in which giant size aquariums need . Their efficiency is the "contact time" it takes to allow air/gas to stay in contact with the water for longer periods of time thus better skimming !
cones vs regular
However they also reduce head pressure on the needlewheel pump resulting in increased air. This reduced head pressure also allows them to be taller which increases contact time. Might be a wash there.
False. Original ATB cones were formed on a mold by hand one at a time, then welded at the seam. This certainly was not done at a reduced costs as there is a lot of labor involved. That being said, over the years, many of the skimmer companies have turned to injection molding which has a high start up costs (price of the mold) but over time the cost gets much cheaper. Traditional skimmer companies can just as easily pay for a mold of their skimmer bodies and enjoy the same cost savings.
Simply because at those sizes, it's easier to uses the materials already on hand. Pound for Pound, commercial skimmers are no where close to the efficiency of the top hobbyist skimmers but when yoou inject the amount of ozone they do, it is the great equalizer!
Here is a commercial cone skimmer.
Increased air is the problem in a constricted body which doesn't allow to bring in proper amounts of water to come into contact with - that's an issue I'm afraid !
As far as cost to produce cone's ,initial start up costs are higher but as you have already pointed out when the injected molds have long been paid for the costs are cheaper compared to traditional skimmer design's.
Commercial skimmers are obviously higher costs to run but they process a huge amount of water to air in which giant size aquariums need . Their efficiency is the "contact time" it takes to allow air/gas to stay in contact with the water for longer periods of time thus better skimming !
CHSUB
"Certified Hobby Expert"
cone could be made with equal or great volume than regular skimmer with same pump.
bernie lyons
New member
gcarroll
Active member
my ATB 1260 has the same rating as a BK Super Marin 250. The ATB was definite taller which usually means increased contact time. Keep in mind I'm not saying one is better than the other. Just giving both sides of the argument.
Size is important which is why so many companies moved to an elongated cone transition seen on the new BK, Skimz, Aquamaxx, ext... This enables them to get the performance advantages of a cone while also keeping the footprint smaller.
bernie lyons
New member
commercial skimmers
commercial skimmers
That said without the benefit of intellect, perhaps ?
I've had nothing but good sized home type skimmers (MTC,deltec, klaes,ect ,ect) But I've seen a decent size RK2 commercial on a good size tank, and although that person used,but very small amounts of ozone into the skimmer, the tank look absolutely amazing !
commercial skimmers
That said without the benefit of intellect, perhaps ?
I've had nothing but good sized home type skimmers (MTC,deltec, klaes,ect ,ect) But I've seen a decent size RK2 commercial on a good size tank, and although that person used,but very small amounts of ozone into the skimmer, the tank look absolutely amazing !
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Are you running the cone or regular? The way I read your post I am thinking regular.
I had to look a couple of times before I noticed the skimmer in that pic.
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Klaus Jansen
.Registered Member
Hi Bernie
this information is incorrect... example : .. BK-Double Cone´s are made from 10 mm/ 0,4 inches, PETG-Plates in a vacuum-thermoforming machine, no injection molding bodys... Nobody make skimmerbodys in injection-molding... 10mm PETG is much more expensive as a simple acrylic pipe. What you need is a thermoforming tooling and the cost of them are very high...
The manufacturing costs are reduced by less handwork not by materialcost. thats the reason, why cone designed skimemrs are cheaper as columns-skimmers
Any years ago, we build *rocketskimmers* and i can tell you, the monster highskimmers are not better in performance as a good balanced needlewheel skimmer. Contact time is not the keyfactor for good skimming. High skimmers have to much backpressure and the pumps need much more Power, as low skimmers. In my old tank i use 2 high skimmers ( 300 cm) and a BK 500 Deluxe ( 70 cm) blow up the high skimmers.
best regards ... Klaus
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Just my two cents. I prefer to go with a cylinder skimmer, for the main reason that it will give you the smallest foot print for the largest volume. So what this means, is that, in most cases that will allow the manufacture to have a larger water and air throughout put for the smallest foot print. Most cases a skimmer would probably not perform well if you had a 6 inch skimmer and put 2000l/h air and 3000l/h of water but it may work well when you do it in a 8 inch diameter skimmer. That's simply because of space or volume. There are other factors eg neck etc , this is why I am saying in most cases.
Take for an example an 8 inch cone and an 8 inch cylinder, the cylinder will give you more volume to work with.
Then you have the wine glass or hybrid skimmers which are not 100% true cone, but what they offer is a smaller foot print than the cone with a seamless transition. This is why you start to see the disappearance of 100% full cone and more hybrid style skimmers. If you carefully look at the hybrid style skimmers they are basically a cylinder bottom seamless transition and straight pipe up to the neck.
Also none of these skimmers will work good if they are not balanced.
The cost of making a cone or cylinder has been explained. If you are going to produce a high volume skimmer thermoforming will make more sense economically. Therefore the cylinder will be more expensive to produce than the others. (More labor intensive)
HTH
Take for an example an 8 inch cone and an 8 inch cylinder, the cylinder will give you more volume to work with.
Then you have the wine glass or hybrid skimmers which are not 100% true cone, but what they offer is a smaller foot print than the cone with a seamless transition. This is why you start to see the disappearance of 100% full cone and more hybrid style skimmers. If you carefully look at the hybrid style skimmers they are basically a cylinder bottom seamless transition and straight pipe up to the neck.
Also none of these skimmers will work good if they are not balanced.
The cost of making a cone or cylinder has been explained. If you are going to produce a high volume skimmer thermoforming will make more sense economically. Therefore the cylinder will be more expensive to produce than the others. (More labor intensive)
HTH
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RocketEngineer
Space is big.
You are all missing one key point: There is not one single independently verifiable standard for skimmer performance.
NOT ONE.
There is no way to tell independently which works best because the industry has no way to measure it. All evidence for or against is all anecdotal. Each aquarium is different with so many variables that controlling for just one is all but impossible.
Choose a skimmer you like, run it 24/7, and keep it clean. Skimmers are just one part of a very complicated system. They can help keep things going smoothly but they aren't the end all and be all of filtration in our tanks.
JMO.
NOT ONE.
There is no way to tell independently which works best because the industry has no way to measure it. All evidence for or against is all anecdotal. Each aquarium is different with so many variables that controlling for just one is all but impossible.
Choose a skimmer you like, run it 24/7, and keep it clean. Skimmers are just one part of a very complicated system. They can help keep things going smoothly but they aren't the end all and be all of filtration in our tanks.
JMO.
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