Controller Battery Backup?

[d2mini]

Thinking I need a UPS for my controller in case we lose power.
This will let me keep my Tunze powerhead running.
I would think the controller (Profilux) wouldn't use much power?
Would a UPS be able to run it for several hours?

 

[sleepydoc]

Probably - the power consumption should be listed, but what's the point? If the only other thing you have running is a powerhead there isn't anything for it to control; unless the power disruption to the controller causes issues you'd be better off saving the power for your powerhead.

 

[woodnaquanut]

Sorry I don't know the Profilux, but if it works like an Apex, you might be able to have it sense that wall power is off (on Apex this is done by an aux 12v power supply) and then shut down all outlets but the one the PH is connected to.

Most UPSs are not designed to run with much power for very long. They are more for controlled shut down of computer and a chance to save open files.

 

[tkeracer619]

UPS are designed for heavy loads for a short period of time. I would also only get a unit with a true sine wave output for your controller. Your talking a good amount of cash.

Doesn't tunze have a breakout cable that allows you to run the pumps off a dc battery when power cuts? I'm sure we could come up with something...

This is what I use for my controllers. Not so much for battery backup but for safety. I had a value series that saved my gear when an unmarked power line was hit with a ditchwitch. Everything in the house fried but my aquarium gear. The UPS fried but it did its job so I bought another.
http://store.opti-ups.com/OPTI-UPS-...archPage=1&searchRank=salesrank&searchSize=12

 

[d2mini]

Doesn't tunze have a breakout cable that allows you to run the pumps off a dc battery when power cuts? I'm sure we could come up with something...

Yes, but if plugged into the Profilux (the Profilux offers full control of the Tunze with it's built in software) everything will shut down during a power lose, even if the Tunze is hooked up to a battery, which it will be. The Profilux needs power to keep the signal going to the Tunze.

 

[tkeracer619]

Hmm, could we make a custom breakout cable for you? Does it still use the tunze driver or is the pump directly to the profilux? It goes straight to the profilux huh?

 

[zachts]

you could power both the tunze and the profilux off a decent size ups for many hours but you would get longer run time if you used the tunze back up connector and run it directly off the battery in the ups during power out. the profilux could still run off the ups inverter. sine wave or not doesn't mater for DC electronics. the profilux DC power supply will take care of the input power even if the ups is a square wave output, just like a computer psu would, same with the tunze DC power adapter.

then again if the profilux can detect power out and still control the tunze you could implement a on/off run profile to extend run time during power out.

 

[tkeracer619]

Yeah but the output on some of those modified sine wave systems are terrible. Have you ever put one on a scope? Maybe for a $500 dell but I would rather have a nice clean power source for this stuff.

I actually walked into an office once to maintain their tank and smelled something burning, go into one of the offices and a cheep apc ups was on fire. I grabbed it and whatever cords came with it and dragged it outside. Fire department showed and I even made the 6pm news . Cheap battery backups scare the crap out of me.

 

[uncleof6]

Yeah but the output on some of those modified sine wave systems are terrible. Have you ever put one on a scope? Maybe for a $500 dell but I would rather have a nice clean power source for this stuff.

I actually walked into an office once to maintain their tank and smelled something burning, go into one of the offices and a cheep apc ups was on fire. I grabbed it and whatever cords came with it and dragged it outside. Fire department showed and I even made the 6pm news . Cheap battery backups scare the crap out of me.

You will get no argument out of me. Cheap/DIY UPS = have good fire insurance, and plenty of it. One of the hardest things to do is convince folks to get a generator if they want/need backup power. And yeah I have a scope, and a standby generator... Remember the great power out due to a monkey wrench in the works? (So. Cal wide, down to TJ, it made the news...) The neighbors wanted to plug in, as soon as they heard the diesel turn over and fire up... ...before that, they thought I was nuts. I have a UPS for the computers...

 

[CuzzA]

Here is my automatic battery backup design (I wouldn't necessarily call it cheap, but relative to the amount of money in livestock I'm trying to protect, it's a bargain). Scroll down for a more indepth explanation of the system (post #19, I believe). Unlike a typical stand alone generator you don't need to be home to set it up and unlike a UPS it will last much longer given you buy a large enough battery(ies).

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2440002

You are correct. The controller and power head must be on the battery back up in order to tell the power head to run. I'm not familiar with the Profilux but my Apex has a 12 volt input for this specific purpose. It provides power to the brain and VDM module so it will communicate what intensity the power head should run at. The power heads ac power cord provides the electricity to turn the motor.

 

[d2mini]

I have a generator in the shed to run the tank for longer outtages.
This is just for small ones so I don't have to run home.

I only need a battery for the Profilux, NOT the Tunze. The Tunze will have its own battery with trickle charger.
The Profilux is no different than any other computer and just has to keep that signal going to the Tunze. So I would think a regular UPS would work fine, no?

 

[d2mini]

Hmm, could we make a custom breakout cable for you? Does it still use the tunze driver or is the pump directly to the profilux? It goes straight to the profilux huh?

The cable that controls the pump goes straight from the Profilux to the Tunze.
It's just for sending instructions, not power.

 

[CuzzA]

I would think a UPS would work just fine for supplying power to the controller. It is a computer after all and that is what UPS's are designed to back up.

 

[zachts]

I have a generator in the shed to run the tank for longer outtages.
This is just for small ones so I don't have to run home.

I only need a battery for the Profilux, NOT the Tunze. The Tunze will have its own battery with trickle charger.
The Profilux is no different than any other computer and just has to keep that signal going to the Tunze. So I would think a regular UPS would work fine, no?

Yes the profilux is just like a computer. Only it could run for several days off an decent size UPS.

See how much power the tunze and Profilux draw when you run the tunze on a low speed "power out" scenario. You will probably be good for more than a day or so off the UPS alone, especially if you set the tunze to run on/off during power out like Ecotech does with their pumps.

For short duration it would be much safer to just stick with a UPS and not mess with the dangers/hassle/expense of a larger battery and trickle charger setup. Spend what you would on the external battery and charger and just pick up a higher capacity UPS.

If the Profilux can sense power out and you run a profile similar to what Ecotech does you'd be able to get several days of backup run time out of the UPS. Ecotech only uses a modest 18Ah battery. A UPS with larger capacity than this is not terribly expensive.

 

[tkeracer619]

I was only able to get 2 hours out of a single mp40 on a 1000va ups. If you have a specific model number that you can confirm will make a profilux last for a day or so on a ups please share it and if you can show the proof that it will last that would be best because I have yet to see one that will.

The reason a vortech runs so long on a 18ah battery is because it is directly running off the battery.

 

[tkeracer619]

Here is a test.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2458690&highlight=ups+runtime

And another test.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1816269&highlight=ups

 

[d2mini]

Ya, the Tunze is designed to run off a battery (like a motorcycle battery) with the Safety Connector. It will be just like running an MP40 off an ecotech battery. Same thing without the fancy box.
http://www.tunze.com/details.html?&L=1&C=US&user_tunzeprod_pi1[prodid]=6105.500

So again, only the Profilux needs power.
All I was wondering is what's a decent size UPS to run it for several hours to a day.

I guess I need to find out from GHL how much power it draws.

 

[tkeracer619]

What does the wall wart adapter say for output?

 

[zachts]

I was only able to get 2 hours out of a single mp40 on a 1000va ups. If you have a specific model number that you can confirm will make a profilux last for a day or so on a ups please share it and if you can show the proof that it will last that would be best because I have yet to see one that will.

The reason a vortech runs so long on a 18ah battery is because it is directly running off the battery.

I couldn't find a power use rating on the Profilux site but I imagine it only draws a few watts? So looking at the power/run-time curves of a 1500VA unit you can't even figure such a small draw. ~25 watts would be over 4hrs continuous.

The Vortechs also run at half power on backup mode and cycle on/off to conserve even more and extend run time further.

Bypassing the inverter to power the tunze directly off the battery would be a simple modification and the profiliux if powered from the inverter would shut the pump off to protect the battery when it was discharged. In theory the profilux could also be powered off the battery since it is a 12v device. You'd just need a relay to cut power when the inverter shuts down at low battery voltage, or some other way to monitor this and prevent battery damage.

 

[zachts]

A side thought, I wonder if the Ecotech backup would be compatible with the tunze pump and profilux as back up power? They are cheaper than a high capacity UPS if it would work.