Convict and Blue tang death in QT.

[iReefer2]

Hey, received a small blue tang and convict tang, both around 1", placed in QT with a sponge filter that came from my DT.

Convict tang passed day 2, 1 day later the blue tang passed away, gutted.

Just want to know what happened I don't really know, looking for some help to understand my mistake.

PH stayed stable at 8.05~
Temp 78.5
Cond 35
Nitrite 0

I'm worried Ammonia may have spiked or that my test kit was wrong, at the times I checked as best I could read from the color chart it was 0. Ammonia is a likely culprit in QT death I suppose.

But they seemed to pass very quickly. The convict looked great on the day of arrival, in fact the blue tang looked dodgy. The convict was swimming around really active, then all of a sudden next day he's laying on the bottom.

I've attached a picture of the blue tang when I found him dead in the tank, the coloring looks really bad, is it ammonia burn, or something else?

I just want to identify my mistakes so to not do this again. Thanks.

 

[HumbleFish]

Can you describe the acclimation process you used, including source and destination water SG?

How big is your QT? How were you providing gas exchange? I doubt you'd see an ammonia spike after only 2-3 days, but if the fish died of ammonia burn you might notice redness around the gill area.

Also, were any medications being used when the fish died?

 

[CoralsAddiction]

How big is your QT? I'm thinking stress and/or ammonia

 

[DasCamel]

Highly advocate ammonia badges, removes any doubt.

 

[iReefer2]

I placed the 2 fish into a 5g bucket with the bag water, then drop acclimated over 45 mins. Then used a clear container to scoop up and place into the QT. They provided some methalyne blue, so I used that in the bucket while acclimating, like blue zoo said to do.

The QT was 10 gallons, had 2 sponge filter that had an air pump running on one of them. Also a hob filter. The water I used was saltwater that I had pre mixed from RODI with Red Seas salt mix, I placed it in the quarantine tank like 3 weeks ago, so it had been sitting there a while, then placed the filters and heater etc in there couple days before the fish arrived.

The first day I added nitrofuracin green just in case any wounds from the travel. But only did it that first day.

I also tested the conductivity again, it came out at 35.7 would the high conductivity be the problem?

No redness on the fish, the convict tang was just barely alive when I found him that 2nd day, he was having trouble swimming, and laying on the bottom, was very sad. Could it have been a parasite? Maybe I should have dosed copper straight away?

Can you describe the acclimation process you used, including source and destination water SG?

How big is your QT? How were you providing gas exchange? I doubt you'd see an ammonia spike after only 2-3 days, but if the fish died of ammonia burn you might notice redness around the gill area.

Also, were any medications being used when the fish died?

 

[iReefer2]

When you say ammonia badges, do you mean seachems ammonia alert? Or something else?

 

[iReefer2]

Pic of the convict tang when pulled him out on the 2nd day

Hate posting pics of dead fish, but just in case it helps with identifying the issue

 

[Nina51]

When you say ammonia badges, do you mean seachems ammonia alert?

yes.

when you say you "received" these fish, do you mean they were shipped to you? if that is the case, the problem could be the drip acclimation.

this is a MUST READ for anybody who has fish shipped.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2415839&highlight=drip+acclimation

i suspect if these fish were shipped, the acclimation procedure you did was probably their demise.

sorry for the losses.

 

[HumbleFish]

when you say you "received" these fish, do you mean they were shipped to you? if that is the case, the problem could be the drip acclimation.

+1 Ammonia would have started spiking after 30 mins from the fish being in the bag so long.

To the OP: If I'm remembering correctly, I believe Bluezoo includes a little bottle of ammonia reducer that you're supposed to squirt in the bag if you're going to drip acclimate. Did you do this?

 

[snorvich]

Blue Zoo ships at a relatively low specific gravity (If I recall correctly it was 1.017) which will most likely not be close enough to NSW if you mixed to 1.025/6. Going down in specific gravity can be done relatively quickly, going up must be done slowly. Best way is to match your SG in the quarantine to the bag SG by asking beforehand what they ship at and then temperature acclimate for 15 minutes and do not transfer the water to quarantine, only the fish.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Blue Zoo ships at a relatively low specific gravity (If I recall correctly it was 1.017) which will most likely not be close enough to NSW if you mixed to 1.025/6. Going down in specific gravity can be done relatively quickly, going up must be done slowly. Best way is to match your SG in the quarantine to the bag SG by asking beforehand what they ship at and then temperature acclimate for 15 minutes and do not transfer the water to quarantine, only the fish.

Good advice. Water is cheap and I always have the QT close to the SG of the expected new fish. I never have fish in their opened shipping bag for mor than 2o mins or so---haven't lost a fish during acclimation in a long, long time.

 

[iReefer2]

F*%#,Â¥>\€^~?K

I wish I'd seen that thread before now! This makes total sense ---->

From Sk8r

I'd be sticking my neck out, but it's my suspicion that the leading cause of early death in our hobby is acclimation mistakes, as in too long, and without the simple procedure of setting up the qt as a 'receiving tank.' You then adjust the salinity to match your dt over the next 4 weeks of observation, and the fish is never, ever stressed.

People often don't recognize what happened because exposure to ammonia on day one can cause a fish who's been in the tank two days to suddenly stop eating, then fail, and die...the owner suspects every disease in the book, when the simple truth was the kidneys were so badly damaged by ammonia on day one that toxic stuff could not leave the bloodstream, and the animal dies after a few days of 'mysterious causes.'

Technically, the fish breathes and poos and generally excretes during shipment. Ammonium is in these excretions. THrough the magic of chemistry, co2 being released as the bag is opened on receipt causes the ph to drop, and as the ph drops, ammonium (harmless in those amounts) is automatically and rapidly converted to ammonia (which is lethal or damaging in small amounts)---exposure to ammonia for over 30 minutes is fatal (through organ damage, which can take as long as several days to manifest). This is why we say don't open bags until you are ready to start dealing with that specimen! NEVER ACCLIMATE LONGER THAN 30 minutes!

This is why having an adjustable qt is a lifesaver, and a heartbreak-saver.


Well, lesson learned. It makes it better to know what happened now, but at same time pretty gutted about it, feel pretty responsible.

 

[ca1ore]

F*%#,¥>\€^~?K

I wish I'd seen that thread before now! This makes total sense ---->

I wish I had a dollar for every time I've personally had the same reaction. Good news is you now know a better way. FWIW, the loss of your fish may well have been for completely different reasons; nobody really knows.

 

[iReefer2]

Snorvich, just did the math for SG to conductivity, do BZA really ship with 1.017sg??? That's like 22.5ppt!! So going from 22.5ppt to 35.5ppt that could have been the problem also? 1.017 is 22.5ppt correct, I did the math right?

If so. Gosh, why do they not make this more known, does this not catch more people out, in sure I can't be the first?

 

[iReefer2]

That sort of salinity change would need to take place over a couple of days.

 

[ca1ore]

That sort of salinity change would need to take place over a couple of days.

Or longer. Last fish I got was shipped at 1.016. I adjusted my QT to same, and added saltwater to the ATO reservoir. It's been 10 days and the QT is up to 1.021. I figure by the end of next week it will be at the target 1.026. No rush really since the fish are going to be in the QT for at least 8 weeks, maybe even 12.

 

[snorvich]

I first ran into this problem with this specific vendor. For that and other issues, some involving warranty, I do not do business with them any longer. However I have been doing the quarantine matching thing for a long time, and that was not a result of that specific vendor's shipping SG. I don't remember when I started doing that or where I read that it was a good practice; it was well before being on Reef Central however.

 

[HumbleFish]

What probably happened to the OP explains many of the "unexplained deaths" in both QT & DT. A lot of people just don't realize how low SG many online vendors & LFS keep their fish in. At least with a QT, it's not too difficult to manipulate the SG as needed. But you can't just lower your DT down to 1.017 every time you buy a new fish. So, I guess this is just another reason to use a QT.

 

[hogfanreefer]

I've had problems with this vendor and posted my experience a week or so ago. That said I've ordered 4 times from them and the salinity has been 1.025 in each bag.

 

[snorvich]

I've had problems with this vendor and posted my experience a week or so ago. That said I've ordered 4 times from them and the salinity has been 1.025 in each bag.

Not about this vendor, this is about the process for receiving fish.