Cooking live rock to kill hair algae?

This sounds like it could be right. But is the first time i heard it. I naturaly thought pots and pans with high heat. I always say your always learning. Can you add a link with more info please. :) :beer:


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12648872#post12648872 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Peter Eichler
"Cooking" live rock is essentially keeping it in the dark in a seperate container with a powerhead or two and doing regular large water changes and routine detritus removal. The process is usally longer than a simple curing process. No stovetop required :p
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12648898#post12648898 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by demonsp
Remoeving to much bacteria isnt an easy fix. They need time to mature and multiply. In a very healthy tank this shouldnt take long but again in a less then perfect tank well stocked it would take some time adding more stress to an already stressed system which cant be good.

Measure twice and make changes once.

Bacteria won't really take any longer to establish itself in a healthy tank vs. a unhealthy tank (whatever that means) as long as the parameters are within acceptable ranges. In other words, if his water is healthy enough to even have a bioload to begin with it's healthy enough to establish bacteria rapidly. Even with a fairly high bioload, removing the rock in a couple stages over the course of a few weeks and adding some sort of biological media will be all that it'll take. Again, not suggesting it, but it's fairly simple if he really wants to do it.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12648918#post12648918 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by demonsp
This sounds like it could be right. But is the first time i heard it. I naturaly thought pots and pans with high heat. I always say your always learning. Can you add a link with more info please. :) :beer:

Hence why I think the term "cooking" is stupid and confusing for people not familiar with it.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12648872#post12648872 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Peter Eichler
"Cooking" live rock is essentially keeping it in the dark in a seperate container with a powerhead or two and doing regular large water changes and routine detritus removal. The process is usally longer than a simple curing process. No stovetop required :p

that's what I assumed after the last post--thanks

Reefers do state they boil rock and bleach it for purposes of removing aptasia and majano anemones.
 
Here is some info, lifted from this thread,
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=650985

Originally posted by SeanT

But before I do I just want to say that Bomber instructed me how to do it several months ago and it works great. So it is his process that I am trying to make popular and cause fellow hobbyists a lot less heartache in the long term.
The purpose of "cooking" your rocks is to have tha bacteria consume all (or as much) organic material and PO4 stored on, and in, the rock as possible.

The first step to this is commitment.
You have to be willing to remove your rock from the tank.
It doesn't have to be all at once, but I feel if you are going to do this do it all. In stages if that is easier but make sure that all of it gets done.

The new environment you are creating for your rock is to take it from an algal driven to a bacterial driven system.
In order to this, the rock needs to be in total darkness to retard and eventually kill the algae's on the rock and to give the bacteria time to do the job.

So basically you need tubs to hold the rock.

Equipment needed.
1. Dedication.
2. Tubs to cook rock in. And an equal amount of tubs to hold the rock during waterchanges.
3. A few powerheads.
4. Plenty of buckets.
5. A smug feeling of superiority that you are taking it to "the next level."

Here are the steps, if you have any questions I will try my best to answer them. What I don't know I am sure Bomber can/will instruct.

1. Get into your head and accept the fact you will be making lots of salt water if you aren't lucky enough to have access to filtered NSW.
2. Explain to significant other what is going on so they don't flip out. This process can take up to 2 months. Prepare them in advance so he/she can mark it on the calendar and that they won't nag about it until that date arrives.
3. Setup a tub(s) where the rock is to be cooked. Garages are great for this.
4. Make up enough water to fill tub(s) about halfway and around 5-7 buckets about 60% full.
5. Remove all the rock you want to cook at this stage. (The rock can be removed piece by piece until you are done.) I suggest shutting off the circulation beforehand to minimize dust storms.
6. Take the first piece of rock and dunk it, swish it, very, very well in the first bucket. Then do it again in the 2nd bucket, then the third.
7. Place rock in the tub.
8. Repeat steps 6 & 7 to every piece of rock you want to cook at this time. The reason I suggested 5-7 buckets of water will be evident quickly...as the water quickly turnsq brown.
9. Place powerhead(s) in the tub and plug in. Position at least one powerhead so that it agitates the surface of the water pretty well. This is to keep the water oxygenated. You can use an air pump for additional oxygenation if you wish.
9. Cover the tub. Remember, we want total darkness.
10. Empty out buckets, restart circulation on main tank.
11. Wait.
12. During the first couple of weeks it is recommended to do a swishing and dunking of the rocks twice a week.
What this entails is to make up enough water to fill up those buckets and the tub the rock is in.
First, lay out your empty tub(s) and fill buckets the same as before.
Then, uncover tub with the rock in it. Take a rock and swish it in the tub it's in to knock any easy to get off junk.
Then, swish it thru the 3 buckets again, and place in the empty tub..
Repeat for all your rocks.
Then empty the tub that all the rocks were cooking in, take it outside and rinse it out with a hose.
Place tub back where it was, fill with new saltwater, add rocks and powerheads, and cover.
Wait again unti the next water change.
You will be utterly amazed at how much sand, silt, detrius is at the bottom of the tub and every bucket. It is amazing.

How it works:


Some FAQ's.
When re-introducing the rock to my tank, a month or two from now, should I do that in parts to help minimize any cycling effect(s)...if there are any?
I never have. Really after a very short while, the ammonium cycle has been extablished. That's not what you're worry about though, it's the stored phosphates and that you have to wait it out.
When they are producing very little detritus - you'll know - then I would use them all at once.

Would running Carbon filtration and/or a PO4 reducing media help/hurry/hinder the process?
I wouldn't fool with it. You don't want the detritus to sit there long enough to rot, release water soluble P again. You want to take it out while it's still locked up in that bacterial detritus.




I hope this helps you out.
It really is a "miracle" and a low cost one at that.
The only monies spent are for salt and electricity for the powerheads which are nominal. Especially to rid yourself of Bryopsis.
Time and effort is all it akes. And really not that much effort.
I would say that 85% of my exposed rock had Bryopsis (hair algae) covering it.
There isn't a single visible strand on andy rocks in the tubs now.
Remember, the key is patience. Let this process run its course.

And a few last minute tidbits I remembered.
Your coralline will die back, receed etc.
My thoughts on this are GREAT!
Now my rock is more porous for additional pods, mysids, worms etc.
Coralline will grow back.
Throughout this process the sponges, and pods on my rock have not died off.
Everytime I do a waterchange they are there and plentiful.
 
Im sure that cutting off the algea's food source will eliminate but it still wont eliminate the the problem. I would say it sounds like a soft cycle.Just made that up as i didnt know any other way to phrase it.

Then if coral will reproduce faster in a healthy tank makes sence that any life would only do better in a healthy tank.

This isnt a gold fish tank ( meaning they will bread aslong as theres an inch of space ) but SW critters will restrict population if water quality poor or food source wrong or limited.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12649034#post12649034 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by demonsp


Then if coral will reproduce faster in a healthy tank makes sence that any life would only do better in a healthy tank.


Such as how hair algae does much better in a "healthy" tank? ;)
 
The source of hair algea means your tank isnt healthy. Was this a joke ? Wait your a LFS owner?



<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12649435#post12649435 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Peter Eichler
Such as how hair algae does much better in a "healthy" tank? ;)
 
I've battled bryopsis for 18 months ... thick lushous meadows of it! Done the magnesium thing; did the 1 week darkness & 1 week low light 3 times (actually almost killed off the B) but killed one of my clams so I stopped the process; did a soft 'cooking' and am doing it again on the worst of the infested rocks. B is still there. My water parameters are and have always been -- 0 x PO4, 0 x NO3, Alk 11.5 dKh, Ca 440 ppm, pH 8.4 to 8.6, Mg 2100 ppm.

'Healthiness' of the tank seems to have little impact on B but obviously a tank with poor water parameters would encourage B.

The B is the only nuisance algae that is growing in my tank.

Tone :)
 
This is a 500 gallon tank?
Whats used for water flow?
Whats the water source?



<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12649478#post12649478 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tonyf
I've battled bryopsis for 18 months ... thick lushous meadows of it! Done the magnesium thing; did the 1 week darkness & 1 week low light 3 times (actually almost killed off the B) but killed one of my clams so I stopped the process; did a soft 'cooking' and am doing it again on the worst of the infested rocks. B is still there. My water parameters are and have always been -- 0 x PO4, 0 x NO3, Alk 11.5 dKh, Ca 440 ppm, pH 8.4 to 8.6, Mg 2100 ppm.

'Healthiness' of the tank seems to have little impact on B but obviously a tank with poor water parameters would encourage B.

The B is the only nuisance algae that is growing in my tank.

Tone :)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12649447#post12649447 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by demonsp
The source of hair algea means your tank isnt healthy. Was this a joke ? Wait your a LFS owner?

I am? Even if I was I'm not sure what that would have to do with anything... You just got through saying that "any life would only do better in a healthy tank". Am I to assume you don't consider hair algae "any life"? The presence of hair algae doesn't mean an unhealthy tank, but it certainly can mean it's a little less than ideal for many organisms. Bacteria would not be one of those organisms which I'm guessing is what your refernce was to. How about ammonia, would you consider an aquarium with ammonia a "healthy" tank? Probably not, but I can assure you that bacteria reproduces at explosive rates with the presence of ammonia.

Lastly, not sure what you're getting at with the last post but Bryopsis will thrive in a tank that has perfect makeup water and tons of flow. In general it's quite tolerant of low nutrients, but certainly doesn't scoff at higher nutrient levels. I've seen plenty of tanks that contain healthy thriving Bryopsis as well as incredibly healthy and colorful SPS corals. So just because a tank has Bryopsis, by your logic, it seems that it would be considered unhealthy. However, I simply don't see that as the case.
 
"Cooking Rock" Cliff Notes.

"Cooking Rock" Cliff Notes.

The purpose of "cooking" your rocks is to have the bacteria consume all (or as much) organic material and PO4 stored on, and in, the rock as possible.

The new environment you are creating for your rock is to take it from an algal driven to a bacterial driven system.
In order to do this, the rock needs to be in total darkness to retard and eventually kill the algae's on the rock and to give the bacteria time to do the job.

So basically you need tubs to hold the rock.

Equipment needed.
1. Dedication.
2. Tubs to cook rock in. And an equal amount of tubs to hold the rock during waterchanges.
3. A few powerheads.
4. Plenty of buckets.
5. A smug feeling of superiority that you are taking it to "the next level."
6. Saltwater, enough made up to follow the instructions below and to replenish your tank after removing rocks.
Here are the steps:

1. Get into your head and accept the fact you will be making lots of salt water if you aren't lucky enough to have access to filtered NSW.
2. Explain to significant other what is going on so they don't flip out. This process can take up to 2 months. Prepare them in advance so he/she can mark it on the calendar and that they won't nag about it until that date arrives.
3. Setup a tub(s) where the rock is to be cooked. Garages are great for this.
4. Make up enough water to fill tub(s) about halfway and around 5-7 buckets about 60% full.
5. Remove all the rock you want to cook at this stage. (The rock can be removed piece by piece until you are done.) I suggest shutting off the circulation beforehand to minimize dust storms.
6. Take the first piece of rock and dunk it, swish it, very, very well in the first bucket. Then do it again in the 2nd bucket, then the third.
7. Place rock in the tub.
8. Repeat steps 6 & 7 to every piece of rock you want to cook at this time. The reason I suggested 5-7 buckets of water will be evident quickly...as the water quickly turns brown.
9. Place powerhead(s) in the tub and plug in. Position at least one powerhead so that it agitates the surface of the water pretty well. This is to keep the water oxygenated. You can use an air pump for additional oxygenation if you wish. Only one powerhead per tub is needed. Remember the powerheads main responsibility is the oxygenation of the water.
10. Cover the tub. Remember, we want TOTAL darkness.
11. Empty out buckets, restart circulation on main tank.
12. Wait.
13. During the first couple of weeks it is recommended to do a swishing and dunking of the rocks twice a week.
What this entails is to make up enough water to fill up those buckets and the tub the rock is in.
First, lay out your empty tub(s) and fill buckets the same as before.
Then, uncover tub with the rock in it. Take a rock and swish it in the tub it's in to knock any easy to get off junk.
Then, swish it thru the 3 buckets again, and place in the empty tub..
Repeat for all your rocks.
Then empty the tub that all the rocks were cooking in, take it outside and rinse it out with a hose.
Place tub back where it was, fill with new saltwater, add rocks and powerheads, and cover.
Wait again until the next water change.
You will be utterly amazed at how much sand, silt, detritus is at the bottom of the tub and every bucket. It is amazing.
At times the stench was so strong I gagged.

How it works:

Some FAQ's.
When re-introducing the rock to my tank, a month or two from now, should I do that in parts to help minimize any cycling effect(s)...if there are any?
I never have. Really after a very short while, the ammonium cycle has been established. That's not what you're worry about though, it's the stored phosphates and that you have to wait it out.
When they are producing very little detritus - you'll know - then I would use them all at once.

Would running Carbon filtration and/or a PO4 reducing media help/hurry/hinder the process?
I wouldn't fool with it. You don't want the detritus to sit there long enough to rot, release water soluble P again. You want to take it out while it's still locked up in that bacterial detritus.

And a few last minute tidbits I remembered.
Your coralline will die back, recede etc.
My thoughts on this are GREAT!
Now my rock is more porous for additional pods, mysids, worms etc.
Coralline will grow back.
Throughout this process the sponges, and pods on my rock have not died off.
Every time I do a water change they are there and plentiful.

 
demonsp,
PLEASE stop spreading disimformation or giving your "opinion" to others as fact when it clearly is incorrect.
This type of dangerous trend can influence others down a bad road. :(

"Cooking" has NOTHING to do with heat, simple research would have cleared this up.

"Cooking" your rock is EXTREMELY beneficial to all skill levels of reefers as it removes a huge portion of stored phosphates in the rock.

A tank full of hair algae IS a sign of an unhealthy tank in reefkeeping terms.

High levels of phosphates fuel algal growth.
High levels of phosphates INHIBIT the calcification of corals such as LPS and LPS.

Thank you,
Sean

P.S. Sorry to everyone for the late reply, I work at a nightclub and just got home.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12649563#post12649563 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SeanT
demonsp,
PLEASE stop spreading disimformation or giving your "opinion" to others as fact when it clearly is incorrect.
This type of dangerous trend can influence others down a bad road. :(

"Cooking" has NOTHING to do with heat, simple research would have cleared this up.

"Cooking" your rock is EXTREMELY beneficial to all skill levels of reefers as it removes a huge portion of stored phosphates in the rock.

A tank full of hair algae IS a sign of an unhealthy tank in reefkeeping terms.

High levels of phosphates fuel algal growth.
High levels of phosphates INHIBIT the calcification of corals such as LPS and LPS.

Thank you,
Sean

P.S. Sorry to everyone for the late reply, I work at a nightclub and just got home.

thanks for the step by step how to cook live rock guide---I'll find it very useful to refer to when issues surrounding cooking are brought up:smokin:

In Lance's defense I have seen the term "cooking" used incorrectly many times on different posts.
There is the correct process as you have outlined but others have referred to 'cooking" as actually boiling the live rock and rendering it sterile in a last ditch attempt to rid the rock of algae and or nuisance anemones.

Peter had to clarify this earlier for me in the thread before I could understand his statement on cooking said bacteria would remain on the rocks----obviously with the misconcept it wouldn't due to heat.;)

anyways thanks to you and Peter for clarifying the concept of "cooking"
 
Cooking rocks should be left to crackheads.

That list of stuff you do to turn live rock (if you had legitimate live rock in the first place) into base rock is one of the craziest things I have ever heard of. If you are that overstocked/have that crappy or misapplied filtration, you need to upgrade. If you have a decent skimmer already you should figure out how to run an appropriate amount of chemical media and then how often to change it and then do it. No, floating a sack of carbon in your sump does not count for s....

That whole thing with phosphate in the rocks and coralline is bad is scary stupid.

What makes you think the phosphate goes away, because the algae is gone after two months in the dark? Then back in your system where you still didn't change the real problem and in a few weeks when the algae comes back what do you do cook them again? Holy crap, do you actually keep things alive or do they just slowly die then you go get more?

Also, when coralline dies it leaves the calcium carbonate crust behind, and pores would still be covered. Are you sure it's not cyanobacteria that you are (temporarily) getting rid of, sounds more likely in the described system. :lol:


:strooper:
 
JT you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. The LR after being "cooked" or better yet purged is anything but dead, when you start keeping photosynthetic pods let me know. Bacteria and pods will feed on the detritus and PO4 within the rock. How does the PO4 go away? You did read about the water changes right? Dunking and swishing the LR when moving from bin to bin to liberate detritus?

This thread brings back so many memories.
 
Have you tried a sea hare? Thats the only thing that worked for me. The phosphate reactor media gets used up really fast.
 
jankytomato, Have a nice day. :wavehand:

Smith,
If your rock is cleaned the correct way there is no need for PO4 reactors for control or buying animals just to take care of a problem.

Regards,
Sean
 
Anecdotal observations from..... ME!..

I had no hair algae for over ywo years, suddenly, from outa nowhere!!! Bam! Hair algae from another dimension!! I test for phosphates.... 0.000 ppm.. My R.O. tests out at 4 TDS, so I know that the problem CAN'T be the water source, so where the heck is the algae getting the fuel from?? Then I see a post about and and the guy claims that the hair algae will cause the test to read 0.00 ppm on the phosphates because it's already getting bound up in the hair algae... Suddenly, the light comes on and I head to the "bat cave" to check the water BEFORE I put it in the tank.... Wouldn't cha know it!! Phosphates in the make up water!! Donning my cape and rolling an 18 for a spell of enchantment, I head off to surf the net for an answer. Finally I order a D/I unit to add to my RO And a phosphate reactor and media. Now it seems the local municipality, in another desperate attempt for global domination here in the new milennium, had been adding phosphates to the water, as it helps stop the pipes from rusting, so three gallons a day of phosphate laden water had been the fuel source for the hair algae..

I loaded up the phosphate reactor with media and could see the results within three days. The hair algae went from green to brown and started receeding, just like my hairline only way quicker! I tried and tried to figure out how to tell when it was saturated. At least the resin in the D/I unit had the common courtesy to change colour when it was done, but then it dawned on me that when the algae stopped receeding, it meant that the media should be changed!! Whoo Hoo! it's working!!

That's my story and I'm sticking to it! It seems to me that the phosphate media out absorbs the algae and the algae dies. As long as I change the media often enough to match the phosphate leeching back from the rocks...........
 
Thanks Skypapa and Sean for the great info. My reeftank sits in front of an open window and receives direct sunlight for a few hours per day, and as one can imagine I have experienced some algae problems. Loved the walkthrough Skypapa, definitely need to do that calendar thing with my wife. LOL!
 
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