Coral Tank from Canada (1350gal Display Tank)

[nineball]

the only thing that makes me a little nervous is "It is also resistant to chemicals and fungi" from their website, I've seen silicone with antifungal properties slowly poison reef tanks causing livestock loss

I would assume that anything that would be toxic to the fish would be similary toxic to the corals in all likelyhood? Also, I believe that Chingchai's water column has been incredibly stable including his algae growth which has been kept in check by his top notch fish guy with regular maintenance. The tank has been in full production for some time now and seems to be doing well.

Peter

 

[dave.m]

RC blocks that site. I try to link the manufacturers site if they provide it within the article.

You're right. Probably can't take the competition. They are all one word reef builders dot com and adjust the URL in the link from there.

I am a huge fan of the EPO epoxy that Chingchai used

Peter, I did not mean to dis the the particular product that Chingchai used in his remarkable aquarium. My point was that two-part epoxy putties are not all equal; that you can't just run down to the hardware store and use whatever they have to hand. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Dave.M

 

[Elliott]

I would assume that anything that would be toxic to the fish would be similary toxic to the corals in all likelyhood? Also, I believe that Chingchai's water column has been incredibly stable including his algae growth which has been kept in check by his top notch fish guy with regular maintenance. The tank has been in full production for some time now and seems to be doing well.

Peter

Chemical bio toxicity can be rather specific to livestock, for example a reef tank I know of that used silicone with anti fungal properties experienced more fish loss and less coral impact. I know Chingchai has experienced unexplainable fish loss in his display tank, maybe there is a connection here?

 

[mr.wilson]

They got back to me already with regard to my initial inquiry. They are willing to ship direct if the order is big enough. No one ever shows their cards in this game so they didn't specify how much that needs to be. There is no distribution in North America.

There is a very big market here if it works better than current offerings. I asked about fungicide and anti-bacterial agents. I will pass on their response when it comes.

 

[mr.wilson]

Chemical bio toxicity can be rather specific to livestock, for example a reef tank I know of that used silicone with anti fungal properties experienced more fish loss and less coral impact. I know Chingchai has experienced unexplainable fish loss in his display tank, maybe there is a connection here?

Not all toxins cause catastrophic mortality or cloudy water. We are surrounded by toxins and dying slowly These chemical agents could do harm on a molecular level that you would never be able to trace. Just about anything is toxic in high enough doses.

It is also possible that the chemicals they add to silicone and some plastics are ineffective and become inert with time. They are also subject to variation in strength from batch to batch. Perhaps they only kill organisms that come in close contact. They could also become ineffective if coated with bacterial slime (biofilms), algae, or calcification in saltwater.

I will find out what's in it before we light our torches and lift our pitchforks

 

[Elliott]

Not all toxins cause catastrophic mortality or cloudy water. We are surrounded by toxins and dying slowly These chemical agents could do harm on a molecular level that you would never be able to trace. Just about anything is toxic in high enough doses.

It is also possible that the chemicals they add to silicone and some plastics are ineffective and become inert with time. They are also subject to variation in strength from batch to batch. Perhaps they only kill organisms that come in close contact. They could also become ineffective if coated with bacterial slime (biofilms), algae, or calcification in saltwater.

I will find out what's in it before we light our torches and lift our pitchforks

well said!

If it were me I'd stay with materials that have been used by many people over many years. Trying to figure out problems is hard enough with the little we know, at least keep the variables to a minimum, especially with such a large tank as this, all problems become amplified as the tank size increases! :lol:

 

[Reefski's]

i have had unexplained coral loss in my tank. fish have been fine with the exception of the crosshatch triggers, ( i have lost two)

first the sps corals and then most lps corals.

many very smart people have not been able to figure out what happened but it seems like a toxic exposure to something.

 

[ksed]

How about chloride resistant cement for bonding rocks.
Some people have used portland but I don't know over long term how well that cement with hold up to salt water conditions.Chloride resistant cement will do very well, but many chloride resistant cements tend to use anti bacterial properties.

 

[mr.wilson]

How about chloride resistant cement for bonding rocks.
Some people have used portland but I don't know over long term how well that cement with hold up to salt water conditions.Chloride resistant cement will do very well, but many chloride resistant cements tend to use anti bacterial properties.

I finally picked up the BASF chloride resistant cement you had recommended awhile back. It's in the trunk of my car. That's a start

 

[nineball]

You're right. Probably can't take the competition. They are all one word reef builders dot com and adjust the URL in the link from there.


Peter, I did not mean to dis the the particular product that Chingchai used in his remarkable aquarium. My point was that two-part epoxy putties are not all equal; that you can't just run down to the hardware store and use whatever they have to hand. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Dave.M

Absolutely no problem Dave. I never took your intent to even remotely dis the product. This thread prides itself (as you well know by now :dance in open discussions that try to look at all sides. I agree with the prevailing position on these two part epoxies that they generally have had a number of performance problems. This appears to be somewhat more attractive in the sense that as Chingchai pointed out it hardens like steel and it was used wet in salt water to boot. I would like to establish with more certainty that the results that Chingchai has achieved by attempting the same thing to establish yet another best practice for our experience bag.

Having said that I want to state here for all to note as we move forward in this build that any selections of equipment or materials is based on a desire for best practices not any brand affiliation. If a particular brand is mentioned in this thread it is because it falls into our (Peter's Team or member of the thread community) collective sense of the best practice and not in any allegiance to a company name or trade mark.

In this environment..........BEST PRACTICES RULE ! ! !

Peter

 

[nineball]

I will find out what's in it before we light our torches and lift our pitchforks

I think this is so well said........awesome Mr. Wilson. This community continues to benefit from your wisdom and maturity. We thank you for it. Now can you turn off the rain please?

Peter

 

[nineball]

Mr. Wilson. If you can reach the Bros Grimm, John from DQI asked if we could have the Mars bars moved into the new storage part of the fish room so that the marble guys can lay the additional tile on Monday. I don't have the contact info for Jamie to ask him.

Peter

 

[flameangel9]

Peter, let me be the first to say- Awesome build! :lmao:

O.K I'm probably not the first but incredible job Sir

Is there any chance we could have a sneak peek at the fish list?

I just know you have one.

I can't wait to see this tank when its done. I've been following right along and it seems we're getting close to fish and coral.

Its like having a tank that the wife doesn't know about. :dance:

 

[Elliott]

I saw these LED lights in person at a LFS in Phoenix, AZ a few weeks ago. Very impressive to say the least, I plan to use them on my next build, they run about $550 each. They are new and not even on their website yet. Here is their news release...

Ecoxotic’s Cannon LED Pendants Expose the True Cost of Metal Halides

San Marcos, CA – July 22, 2010 – Ecoxotic - committed to Endangering the Status Quo, has unveiled their highly anticipated Cannon LED pendant, a GameChanger lighting solution for large aquariums. Featuring a single 50 watt LED chip packaged in an IP65 rated housing creates a viable, energy efficient alternative to off the shelf metal halide fixtures commonly found in the aquarium industry.


“One of the first aquariums we tested these over was at least 15 feet deep, we were shocked by how deep the light penetrated with such a wide spread,” said Dennis Fredricks, Ecoxotic’s CEO “they blew away the 400 watt halides they were using. It was then we new the pendants are a real solution for hobbyists searching for intensity without the heat and high operating costs. The compact LED chip produces a high amount of focus-point lighting, penetrating the water very effectively and creating amazing shimmer and color.”

Ecoxotic worked closely with Edison-Opto, a leading manufacturer in multi-chip LED technology, to create a custom LED chip in color spectrums not commonly found in multi-chips. “Packaging their robust Edistar LED modules with an efficient heat sink and LED driver created an ideal lighting solution for our industry. Being IP65 rated, the LED pendants can be used safely in wet environments and even outdoors – making them perfect for public aquariums and larger aquatic display exhibits.”

Measuring only 8”x6” in diameter, the LED pendants are a viable alternative to metal halide pendants used in larger aquatic applications. The circular LED module features a 100-degree polished reflector and a glass lens, protecting the LED chip from moisture and corrosive elements. Efficiently cooled by a stout aluminum heat sink, the pendant requires no cooling fan resulting in reliable silent operation. An electronic Meanwell LED driver powers the 50 watt multi-chip and is integrated into the top portion of the pendant, creating a clean and complete package.

Continuing to set a new standard for environmentally friendly aquarium lighting, the Cannon is RoHS compliant. The pendant housing is constructed from highly recyclable aluminum and the pendant consumes only 60 watts – the electrical cost is less than $2.50 per month compared to $17.80 for a 400 watt metal halide*. The LED chip is rated for up to 50,000 hours of life, meaning no lamps to replace or recycle and no mercury to end up in the landfill.

 

[mr.wilson]

I saw these LED lights in person at a LFS in Phoenix, AZ a few weeks ago. Very impressive to say the least, I plan to use them on my next build, they run about $550 each. They are new and not even on their website yet. Here is their news release...

Ecoxotic's Cannon LED Pendants Expose the True Cost of Metal Halides

San Marcos, CA "“ July 22, 2010 "“ Ecoxotic - committed to Endangering the Status Quo, has unveiled their highly anticipated Cannon LED pendant, a GameChanger lighting solution for large aquariums. Featuring a single 50 watt LED chip packaged in an IP65 rated housing creates a viable, energy efficient alternative to off the shelf metal halide fixtures commonly found in the aquarium industry.


"œOne of the first aquariums we tested these over was at least 15 feet deep, we were shocked by how deep the light penetrated with such a wide spread," said Dennis Fredricks, Ecoxotic's CEO "œthey blew away the 400 watt halides they were using. It was then we new the pendants are a real solution for hobbyists searching for intensity without the heat and high operating costs. The compact LED chip produces a high amount of focus-point lighting, penetrating the water very effectively and creating amazing shimmer and color."

Ecoxotic worked closely with Edison-Opto, a leading manufacturer in multi-chip LED technology, to create a custom LED chip in color spectrums not commonly found in multi-chips. "œPackaging their robust Edistar LED modules with an efficient heat sink and LED driver created an ideal lighting solution for our industry. Being IP65 rated, the LED pendants can be used safely in wet environments and even outdoors "“ making them perfect for public aquariums and larger aquatic display exhibits."

Measuring only 8"x6" in diameter, the LED pendants are a viable alternative to metal halide pendants used in larger aquatic applications. The circular LED module features a 100-degree polished reflector and a glass lens, protecting the LED chip from moisture and corrosive elements. Efficiently cooled by a stout aluminum heat sink, the pendant requires no cooling fan resulting in reliable silent operation. An electronic Meanwell LED driver powers the 50 watt multi-chip and is integrated into the top portion of the pendant, creating a clean and complete package.

Continuing to set a new standard for environmentally friendly aquarium lighting, the Cannon is RoHS compliant. The pendant housing is constructed from highly recyclable aluminum and the pendant consumes only 60 watts "“ the electrical cost is less than $2.50 per month compared to $17.80 for a 400 watt metal halide*. The LED chip is rated for up to 50,000 hours of life, meaning no lamps to replace or recycle and no mercury to end up in the landfill.

Giesseman and a few other European companies offer 100 watt LEDs. I can't find any links now, I'm working on my back-up computer, but I found this http://www.leds-and-more.de/catalog...d=817&osCsid=a79bed2c397ec1edb39c039d4c8ed91d

 

[mr.wilson]

I saw these LED lights in person at a LFS in Phoenix, AZ a few weeks ago. Very impressive to say the least, I plan to use them on my next build, they run about $550 each. They are new and not even on their website yet. Here is their news release...

Ecoxotic's Cannon LED Pendants Expose the True Cost of Metal Halides

San Marcos, CA "“ July 22, 2010 "“ Ecoxotic - committed to Endangering the Status Quo, has unveiled their highly anticipated Cannon LED pendant, a GameChanger lighting solution for large aquariums. Featuring a single 50 watt LED chip packaged in an IP65 rated housing creates a viable, energy efficient alternative to off the shelf metal halide fixtures commonly found in the aquarium industry.


"œOne of the first aquariums we tested these over was at least 15 feet deep, we were shocked by how deep the light penetrated with such a wide spread," said Dennis Fredricks, Ecoxotic's CEO "œthey blew away the 400 watt halides they were using. It was then we new the pendants are a real solution for hobbyists searching for intensity without the heat and high operating costs. The compact LED chip produces a high amount of focus-point lighting, penetrating the water very effectively and creating amazing shimmer and color."

Ecoxotic worked closely with Edison-Opto, a leading manufacturer in multi-chip LED technology, to create a custom LED chip in color spectrums not commonly found in multi-chips. "œPackaging their robust Edistar LED modules with an efficient heat sink and LED driver created an ideal lighting solution for our industry. Being IP65 rated, the LED pendants can be used safely in wet environments and even outdoors "“ making them perfect for public aquariums and larger aquatic display exhibits."

Measuring only 8"x6" in diameter, the LED pendants are a viable alternative to metal halide pendants used in larger aquatic applications. The circular LED module features a 100-degree polished reflector and a glass lens, protecting the LED chip from moisture and corrosive elements. Efficiently cooled by a stout aluminum heat sink, the pendant requires no cooling fan resulting in reliable silent operation. An electronic Meanwell LED driver powers the 50 watt multi-chip and is integrated into the top portion of the pendant, creating a clean and complete package.

Continuing to set a new standard for environmentally friendly aquarium lighting, the Cannon is RoHS compliant. The pendant housing is constructed from highly recyclable aluminum and the pendant consumes only 60 watts "“ the electrical cost is less than $2.50 per month compared to $17.80 for a 400 watt metal halide*. The LED chip is rated for up to 50,000 hours of life, meaning no lamps to replace or recycle and no mercury to end up in the landfill.

Aesthetics are entirely personal preference. I looked up the article you quoted and from the pictures it's not my style. As it stands today, LED is a very efficient method of achieving the look and effect of fluorescent lighting.

If you like the look of MHL and want to save money, have a tank no taller than 24" and use 70 watt HQI MHL. They work fine and look great. This tank has two 70 watt HQI fixtures with 20,000K Aqualine Buschke bulbs. No significant heat transfer and as much light as LED with better coverage and shimmering rays. You can also see a penductor in the top right that is able to provide flow for the entire 6', 55 gallon tank. The water is nicely rippled on the surface and is able to hit the wall 6' away and come full circle across the bottom with no other flow source. The pump is a pressure rated Poseidon P3 capable of 850 GPH @ zero head, but this one goes through a closed loop refugium (OceanClear canister) and a second OceanClear canister with 25 micron mechanical filter and 18 watt Aqua-UV, UV sterilizer. The filters are in the basement below so the total head height is 16'.

 

[crazzy]

I finally picked up the BASF chloride resistant cement you had recommended awhile back. It's in the trunk of my car. That's a start

What is the difference between this and Thorite?

 

[mr.wilson]

What is the difference between this and Thorite?

They are both made by BASF, but the Emaco 88 ci is sulphate and chloride resistant so it won't break down in saltwater. The Emaco marine cement also has fiberglass strands for strength. I will report back how quickly it sets, workability, sculptability, PH stability, and all the other "ilities".

I think it's regular portland with a silica fume or micro silica (white metakaolin). They found a vast source of white metakaolin in Western Canada recently. I know you're in the mining industry. It looks like you missed the boat... http://whitemudresources.com/

These additives speed curing time so PH doesn't spike as much and for as long. It cures from the inside out so it renders a much stronger mix and achieves 75% of its strength in 24 hours. The Ph will likely be 8.6-8.8 rather than 9+ as you would get with Thorite. It's also stickier, lighter colour, and holds shapes well without slumping.

At $45.00 per bag wholesale it had better work

 

[ksed]

I finally picked up the BASF chloride resistant cement you had recommended awhile back. It's in the trunk of my car. That's a start

I'm sure it was a battle trying to get throught to a rep at BASF
Did you ever get a response if the Emco88ci has any anti bacterial properties in it.

 

[ransomed4ever]

There seems to be something missing in the fish room diagram - a frag tank. I actually don't remember one being mentioned yet at all, unless you are planning to use one of the mars bars for frags. With the amount of planning and time going into this build chances are pretty good that it will be a very healthy system, and a healthy system means growth, so at some point "pruning" is going to come into the picture.