Coral Tank from Canada (1350gal Display Tank)

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I've been lurking for a while and reading this thread. The amount and quality of info is amazing.
I just wanted to chime in on the discussions about the drugs. I am a vetererinarian and know a little about this stuff. Interceptor is prescription only, but we are allowed to legally prescribe only if a valid veterinary/client relationship exists. If someone walked in off the street asking to buy some of the drugs mentioned here, I wouldn't be able to sell them. Having said that, if I knew the client and had a relationship with them, then I would be able to supply many of these drugs and antibiotics, as well as many other supplies such as syringes, lab equipment, etc. listed here. If you have a vet, and explained your need for your fish (and maybe invited the vet to have a look at your tank), then his/her legal obligation would be met.
 
I've been lurking for a while and reading this thread. The amount and quality of info is amazing.
I just wanted to chime in on the discussions about the drugs. I am a vetererinarian and know a little about this stuff. Interceptor is prescription only, but we are allowed to legally prescribe only if a valid veterinary/client relationship exists. If someone walked in off the street asking to buy some of the drugs mentioned here, I wouldn't be able to sell them. Having said that, if I knew the client and had a relationship with them, then I would be able to supply many of these drugs and antibiotics, as well as many other supplies such as syringes, lab equipment, etc. listed here. If you have a vet, and explained your need for your fish (and maybe invited the vet to have a look at your tank), then his/her legal obligation would be met.

That's exactly the position of my vet

[welcome]
 
capn_hylinur said:
I can be Dennis just dropping in on Mr. Wilson to see what his fish tanks have to offer today
I can be the IP (Idiot Proofer - I review/edit the show. If even I can't understand what you're trying to explain, you're not ready for primetime yet). :thumbsup:

Dave.M
 
I can be the IP (Idiot Proofer - I review/edit the show. If even I can't understand what you're trying to explain, you're not ready for primetime yet). :thumbsup:

Dave.M

Exactly. It's tough stuff to explain to anyone, much less a newbie who wants instant gratification. The difficult part is getting the info out of ones head and into another's without losing them in technical babel. From a writing standpoint, I find it a challenge to distinguish between between what I think the words say and how a reader perceives them. I have gone back to old posts I have made and had difficulty comprehending them myself :)

Part of the solution is dropping the act of trying to prove you know what you are talking about. In this hobby we really don't know what we are doing or how we should be doing it. We can only bite off small pieces and come to a consensus (or agree to disagree) on the best approach.

I get PMs about very specific issues asking for advice on how to address them. I must answer with the absolute best possible solution, knowing full well it is overkill, largely based on theory, addressing hypothetical problems that the end user will execute half-assed anyway, present company excluded :)
 
geeze, a person goes out of town for a few days, and comes back to 20+ pages to catch up with!!!!!

wheres page 100, and the split!!! Whoot Whoot

(this thread should be a sticky in the large tank forum! there is way more information in this one build then tons of others combined!)

wheres that book again Mr. Wilson?
 
You're losing them :)

Yeah I know but this is going to take time and there's not much I can do about it. Everything is coming out of the fish room tomorrow. The final electrical and plumbing is done, then a last thorough cleaning. The equipment is moved back in and the mars bars are tested. Then the fresh water test. There are a whole bunch of water and power tests the alarm people and electricians want to do before I can try the salt water. I will take some pictures of the process and it will be boring but necessary work.

By the way Mr. Wilson, stick to plan, we can create a multimedia extravaganza when the time is right and if its warranted, until then lets go with your initial plan to write the book. TOTM isn't going to cut it, we need more. Everyone who can should be encouraged to contribute with the understanding that you have final say over all things editorial. Also, at the risk of sounding repetitive, I highly recommend bringing Chingchai's discipline and build methodology into the overall framework. He has graphics associated with his initial build that have no equal in the entire forum. His forward planing also has no equal. I agree our tanks are very very different but there are some good principles at work here that should be put into the context of best practices for our hobby regardless of size or cost.

Food for thought.

Peter
 
The rate of progression is a good lesson for the people following the thread. It takes a lot longer than most would think to complete a big project. If they are ever really complete. I recently completed a 165 gallon reef tank that took 9 months and 480 emails between the client and myself, plus about 20 drawings. :spin2:

There are a lot of details that you have not disclosed about your set-up as of yet. I think the group would benefit from pics of the overflow boxes, plumbing details, stand design, and general layout. I've looked at all the photos and I have no idea how it all fits together. Of course it can wait until you are ready, but if you wait too long you will be getting after-the-fact, ad hock advice from monday morning quarterbacks.

I stumbled onto this product today. I know nothing about it so don't ask me :) http://www.genesisreefsystems.com/products.php?cat=9
 
I agree with mr Wilson, a few snaps at the general lay out would be nice, on the other side I was lookin to the link about the automatic water changer, IMO water changes should be automatized only at a point to have a couple of valves to empty an refill! But the salt mix and the should be carefully prepared by the aquarist in order to match the desired salinity or Ca values or other parameters that we could add in the water change.
Sorry just my two cents
By the way I own the ultimate aquariums by Paletta and I love the format! i also have the modern reef aquarium and in one of the volumes at the end there is a section about real life acuariums and its equipments, I think is a great way to learn about this hobby, as well as the TOTM every month in reefkeeping.com (sorry if this comment is a bit late but Mr Wilson brought it up a coiple of pages back)
Saludos from Mexico!!!!
 
lol do you have any idea how much work is involved in wiring up panels like that? hahahahah alot more than filling a tank with water that's for sure. I think you will thank yourself later for those peter.

Oh on the panel discussion, what ever happened to getting a controller to run your system and pumps? Did you give up on that?

Rob

Padrino,

I hope you see the irony in that post?

I've worked on multi million dollar groundwater treatment systems with more elementary control panels than Peter's. By no means was I intending to minimize the accomplishment in developing, or building that perfectly detailed control panel.

So, even ten pages later! I still say, if we have not seen significant progress as yet, I wait with breath held to see what impresses our thread host!!! :fish1:

Bring on the multimedia presentation!!! :lolspin:
 
I agree with mr Wilson, a few snaps at the general lay out would be nice, on the other side I was lookin to the link about the automatic water changer, IMO water changes should be automatized only at a point to have a couple of valves to empty an refill! But the salt mix and the should be carefully prepared by the aquarist in order to match the desired salinity or Ca values or other parameters that we could add in the water change.
Sorry just my two cents
By the way I own the ultimate aquariums by Paletta and I love the format! i also have the modern reef aquarium and in one of the volumes at the end there is a section about real life acuariums and its equipments, I think is a great way to learn about this hobby, as well as the TOTM every month in reefkeeping.com (sorry if this comment is a bit late but Mr Wilson brought it up a coiple of pages back)
Saludos from Mexico!!!!

... and I agree with Artur. There is no benefit to a hopper system that mixes saltwater because it is a simple process for the aquarist to safely carry out on their own. I also agree that inviting machines to take over potentially dangerous tasks like changing water invites the possibility of malfunction and subsequent disaster. I admittedly know nothing about the machine I posted, but no machine, or person, is infallible.

I advocate for a hybrid part man/part machine system. A manual valve should be controlled by the aquarist if and when a water change is deemed in order. If nothing else, this forces the aquarist to inspect the tank closely and possibly detect a problem the timer device will not. On the other hand, we can employ machines to safeguard our human error. Once a manual or valves are opened, a timer or metering device can be used so we don't forget that we have commenced the water change. It's sounds implausible, but the phone rings, your wife asks you to do something, or you wander off on your own leaving the tank filling and draining. Of course the machine is only as good as our programming prowess so the problem may still lie somewhere between the chair and the keyboard :)

The benefit of a manual water change is you can remove detritus with the water. There is a lot more "stuff" in detritus that has settled in your rock work, sump, and overflow box, than the amount of "stuff" in free flowing water in the system. The incoming water is typically a degree or two cooler so it will drop to the bottom or stay at one end of the display tank, making it easy to remove "old" water without taking some "new" water with it when filling and draining at the same time.

There are many ways to skin the water change cat. First you must mix the salt well, match the parameters (supplementing calcium or other elements may be necessary), match the temperature and make sure the water is well aerated with an air lift. Using a Metering pump to add the water is the safest method because it limits the maximum amount of water that one can add over a given period of time. The model I use moves a maximum of 8 gallons per day and can be dialed down to 2 GPD (the current peristaltic metering pump is too noisy, so I'm switching brands - maybe "Blue-White" http://www.blue-white.com/ or an aquarium specific brand). If I forget to turn it off, It can't possibly add too much water; however, if you add the new water too slowly, it will affect salinity as it will interfere with freshwater evaporation top-off. The "new" water should enter in the overflow box, first compartment of the sump, or into a refugium so the water mixes well before entering the aquarium and reaching delicate corals. Sometimes chemicals fall out of solution when heated up or mixed with other water so a slow introduction is beneficial.

Alternatively, a solenoid valve (electronic valve) and mercury switch (electronic float switch) can be used to deliver the new water (via gravity feed or dedicated pump. A second (higher) solenoid shuts off the metering pump or solenoid when the desired water level is achieved. A secondary mechanical float valve mounted above the operating water level of the system is a good idea as an absolute fail-safe. A bulkhead that drains the sump if it overflows is your absolute - absolute fail-safe :)

A more common method for adding new water during a water change is to use a hobby pump (powerhead or external pump) so the task is done in a short period of time, minutes rather than days. This method makes it easier to focus on the task, but if you forget, things go bad quicker :) You can use marker lines on your reservoir or a water meter to establish how much water you have added. I like to use a high volume mechanical float valve (livestock float valve http://www.enasco.com/product/C12631N) at the end of the fill hose (in the sump) so it stops the flow when you reach a predetermined water level.

That covers adding the new water, now you need to remove the old water. It is more efficient to remove the old water first, before adding the new water, but make sure you don't drain more water than you can replace, or let the sump run dry and blast microbubbles into the tank. As I mentioned earlier, this is your opportunity to siphon or pump out detritus that has accumulated. You can fill a container (with water volume lines marked on it) with the old dirty water so you know how much you have removed. Once you've reached your target number of say 50 gallons (the size of a plastic shipping drum), you can stop and allow the system to continue filling until 50 gallons has been replaced. using two identical containers for holding & measuring new and old water makes it easier to know when to start and when to stop. A secret stash of new water is a good contingency plan.

The other "best way" of draining the old water out of your system is a passive method of simply allowing the extra water volume to overflow through a bulkhead mounted in the sump. With this method you only need to monitor and limit how much new water you are adding, as the draining is self regulating. What goes in, must come out. This is a K.I.S.S. method. You limit your input of new water by the amount available to add (your premixed 50 gallon drum). You eliminate any possibility of draining too much by letting gravity take care of that issue too. The return pump, closed loop pumps, and protein skimmer don't need to be adjusted or turned off so you don't invite the chance of failure on restart or forgetting to do so. The sump water level never lowers so you won't stir up detritus or send microbubbles into the display tank. The only down side is you don't export/remove detritus and you may lose some of your new water with the old. Because colder water sinks to the bottom, it is a good practice to add slightly cooler water so it doesn't float on the top and overflow out of your system through the drain standpipe or bulkhead.

Another common practice is to drain all or part of a sump or detritus settling drum and fill it back up to the original level with new water. This method limits detritus storms flowing from the sump to the display because the return pump is shut off during the process. In some cases, I go as far as to use a shopvac (wet vacuum) to remove sludge from the dark recesses of the sump. When you are done, let the dust (detritus) settle and turn the return pump back on. This is another area where we can employ timers as watchdogs for our own stupidity. Your aquarium controller will have several pump sequences that shut down for a predetermined amount of time. If your water change process takes half an hour, you can set the pump to come back on in an hour in case you forget to do so. Of course, this too invites the possibility of mechanical failure, so I prefer to use the alarm in my phone to remind me.

Peter, you have made a wise choice with the illuminated power outlets, as this visual aid limits the dangling cord or controller bypass you may overlook. For those of you who don't want to spend a lot of money on such an elaborate electrical system, there are some cheap illuminated plug adapters and power bars with individual illuminated switches. AC/DC night lights (no, not the ones with the Angus Young schoolboy outfit :)) are also a good addition because they light up and catch your attention when the outlet has shut off. Another low tech trick is to plug in a clock that will be behind by however many hours the power was off for. Often, the power goes off for a short period of time, and the aquarist isn't even aware of it. Once you know, you can trouble shoot your system and take appropriate action.

Having said all that... peristaltic metering pumps like the one I linked earlier and aquarium controllers are very reliable. These pumps cannot possibly start a siphon, or pump faster than the preset rate. It likely uses one motor to both add and subtract water so the quantities should be bang on. These types of pumps are used in high tech industry and for medical purposes so they have to be reliable. I'm not about to say a Jerry rigged daisy chain of DIY devices is more reliable. I just agree with Artur's opinion that you can't completely remove the human element, no matter how flawed (not directed at you specifically Peter) :)
 
Perhaps you can settle the angry mob with a drawing or photo of the general layout. I still don't know if the tank is viewed from one side or two. From the vague wide angle pictures it looks like one and half; the half being a narrow hallway against a circular staircase.

How is the tank connected to the filtration? Do the pipes run under the floor through a conduit or do they pass through at the opposing ends?

Any progress on the lighting?

How does the fishroom work, and what do you intend to do with it? Can you shut off the individual tanks or zones to treat sick fish or corals?

Do you have ground probes in your system anywhere?

How do you intend to control/reduce/export nitrate and phosphate?

Did you end up with a refugium in the design?

What are you doing with the original wet/dry filter?

Do you have plans for a cryptic or benthic zone filter?

Where are all those mangroves going?

Do you have a Nilsen Kalkwasser reactor or intended method of adding supplements like a drip or dosing system?

Do you have an ozonizer?

Does your system have room for media reactors and other add-ons?

Are you feeding the rock in your holding vats nutrients or providing light?

You don't appear to have any plans for a wave generator, surge device or oscillating flow?

If we don't get answers, I'm posting these links to "Flow is more important than lighting" - Dana Riddle & Jake Adams. It will keep you up all night for a month :)
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/200...r flow is more important to corals than light
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/200...r flow is more important to corals than light
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/200...r flow is more important to corals than light
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/200...r flow is more important to corals than light
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/200...r flow is more important to corals than light
 
Another common practice is to drain all or part of a sump or detritus settling drum and fill it back up to the original level with new water. This method limits detritus storms flowing from the sump to the display because the return pump is shut off during the process. In some cases, I go as far as to use a shopvac (wet vacuum) to remove sludge from the dark recesses of the sump. When you are done, let the dust (detritus) settle and turn the return pump back on. This is another area where we can employ timers as watchdogs for our own stupidity. Your aquarium controller will have several pump sequences that shut down for a predetermined amount of time. If your water change process takes half an hour, you can set the pump to come back on in an hour in case you forget to do so. Of course, this too invites the possibility of mechanical failure, so I prefer to use the alarm in my phone to remind me.

Once again, great info Mr. Wilson. This is the exact method I have been using for water changes. I have an old Maxijet 600 connected to a hose to suck water out of the sump and into a bucket to be dumped. Makes it easy to determine how much I've taken out and I also run the maxijet along the bottom of the sump so it sucks up all the detritus. I hadn't even thought to use a wet/dry vac to get that extra 1/4-1/2" inch of water and detritus that is always left because the maxi-jet can't pick it up. Thanks for the great tip!
 
The rate of progression is a good lesson for the people following the thread. It takes a lot longer than most would think to complete a big project. If they are ever really complete. I recently completed a 165 gallon reef tank that took 9 months and 480 emails between the client and myself, plus about 20 drawings. :spin2:

There are a lot of details that you have not disclosed about your set-up as of yet. I think the group would benefit from pics of the overflow boxes, plumbing details, stand design, and general layout. I've looked at all the photos and I have no idea how it all fits together. Of course it can wait until you are ready, but if you wait too long you will be getting after-the-fact, ad hock advice from monday morning quarterbacks.

I stumbled onto this product today. I know nothing about it so don't ask me :) http://www.genesisreefsystems.com/products.php?cat=9

There is a bunch of activities going on today, tomorrow and Wed. First the equipment sled was dismantled and put back into the wine tasting area........my wife is very happy. :sad2::blown::mad2:


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Peter
 
next.....

next.....

The fish room is almost empty and various finishing work is taking place over the next three days.


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