Coral Tank from Canada (1350gal Display Tank)

[swissgaurd]

so the advantage of a brushless motor,computer controlled for accuracy
would be quite, no electrical noise,no dust from the brushes.
motor runs much cooler.
much more efeciant.
excellent choice
any oiling ,greasing to be done?

vic

 

[mr.wilson]

2) Provisions must be made for natural processes and accommodate the flow of energy from one biome to the next;

[at the time cutting-edge technologies such as 'Waterloo Biofilters'; 'Living Machines'; and 'Breathing Walls' utilized the same biological natural phenomena that we as aquarium stewards take for granted everyday]

I have worked with Wolfgang Amelung from Genetron Systems (creator of breathing wall technology) for over 20 years. I worked on the Canada Life, Panasonic, and Club Monaco rainforest installations. For those who are not familiar with the idea, plants are used to polish the air and remove VOCs that cause something referred to as "old building syndrome", whereby stake air and off gassed carpets etc. create an unhealthy working or living environment. In the more elaborate systems, a plenum is located behind a porous wall covered in plant life. These indoor air quality management systems actively draw air through the wall, removing the "bad stuff" like VOCs (volatile organic compounds), formaldehyde gas, and Co2, while adding oxygen and "good" microbes to the environment.

Peter's mangrove wall will improve air quality concurrently to water quality. The stomata (pores) on the undersides of the mangrove leaves convert Co2 to O2. They will also add a fresh floral aroma and literally breath life into the fish room. The space will psychologically become a more positive atmosphere. In time, the mangroves will cover the whole wall with their air/prop roots. You won't be able to see the acrylic structure they are rooted in.

 

[mr.wilson]

so the advantage of a brushless motor,computer controlled for accuracy
would be quite, no electrical noise,no dust from the brushes.
motor runs much cooler.
much more efeciant.
excellent choice
any oiling ,greasing to be done?

vic

The motors are sealed and resemble powerheads. They are submersible with silicone wiring, but we are running them out of water. They are cast in epoxy, so there is no way of servicing them.

Losing fans and brushes is a big step forward as there is no dust or noise, and fewer moving parts. They are 8 pole motors so they run at higher RPMs and spin in the right direction when turned on and off. They have a soft start and shut down, so that adds to longevity.

The two models we have are high voltage, but there are some low voltage DC motors coming out soon.

The ones we have are expensive, but they have features that assure they will pay off in longevity. They have a temp sensor and display for each pump, an audible alarm if power or water is not available to the pump, wattage meter for each pump, and the ability to control flow in one second intervals. Of course it has a feeding mode and random flow. With features that shut it down when there is no water or if it gets too hot (60˚C) it minimizes the chance of failure or premature wear. With the lack of heat and vibration, it will keep spinning for many years to come. All moving parts are premium titanium and silicon carbide. The impeller is CNC machined and not molded plastic.

My favourite part is when I dial the pumps down to 65% they drop from 420 watts to 94 watts and still push a lot of water. Each pump is on a separate cycle, as it has four day phases and two night phases. The controller has a photo sensor so it knows when it is night.

 

[swissgaurd]

i do belive there will be some 12 vol tDC motors coming onto the market.
is there a picture of these pumps you are using.

 

[mr.wilson]

Here are some photos of a Breathing Wall project I worked on with Genetron Systems for Club Monaco. The rainforest wall is 40' long x 15' wide/deep x 40' high. We had a cherry picker crane on site to do maintenance and initial planting.

There was no plenum with this one, just rockwool planting media with plastic mesh wrapped around it for stability. The base pond has a wide variety of tropical fish ranging from Discus to cardinal tetras. It is lit primarily by natural light (skylight) with some supplemental MHL lighting so the aquatic and semi-aquatic plants are low light varieties like crytocoryne, anubias, and java fern. Java moss covered a good portion of the rainforest wall where water ran down from the top. The plants filter the fish waste out of the water and the fish provide nutrients for the plants. Take a look at plant fertilizer and you will see nitrogen and phosphorous at the top of the list.

 

[bbart12]

Has there been any research done into using something other than cheto in the fuge. I understand that it is easy and borderline indestructable. But I was looking through the macroalge forum today and was thinking that many of us are missing out on a an interesting biotope as well as a live food source for our omnivorous fish.

 

[mr.wilson]

i do belive there will be some 12 vol tDC motors coming onto the market.
is there a picture of these pumps you are using.

I posted the company website a few pages back. Here are some pics. I will have some updated on site pics soon.

 

[mr.wilson]

Has there been any research done into using something other than cheto in the fuge. I understand that it is easy and borderline indestructable. But I was looking through the macroalge forum today and was thinking that many of us are missing out on a an interesting biotope as well as a live food source for our omnivorous fish.

Most varieties of algae have about the same nutrient uptake capacity, just different growth rates. Chaetomorpha is one of the slower growing varieties of macroalgae. Gracileria is a better choice if you ant to feed it to fish, and it is equally as stable and unlikely to reproduce sexually (crash).

Calcareous algae like halimeda are slow growing and will deplete calcium. It can also crash if it senses a seasonal change.

Caulerpa is much faster growing and subsequently a better choice for water quality management. It is unlikely to crash (reproduce sexually) if you have a reliable photoperiod of 16 hours per day. Caulerpa (racemosa, mexicana, prolifera, taxifolia etc.) can also be fed to fish.

Some varieties of algae have anti-bacterial properties, such as C. prolifera. Most algae has alellopathic agents (secondary metabolites) that act as mild toxins. This isn't as bad as it sounds considering corals have the same competitive properties. Activated carbon will reduce these agents, and they are largely localized. In other words, the poisons only affect direct competitors in the refugium.

Some people grow turf algae in refugia. They grow rapidly, but can migrate to the tank, leak nutrients with harvesting (tearing), and add yellowing agents (tannins) to the water.

Sea grasses like Turtle Grass is another area that needs further exploration. They are protected n their natural habitat and transplant poorly, so little has been done with them in the hobby.

Chaetomorpha is like a fast food restaurant, it isn't the best solution, but it's convenient and you know what you are getting.

 

[ksed]

I posted the company website a few pages back. Here are some pics. I will have some updated on site pics soon.

From my previous job as a Tool and Die maker, I can most definitely see the machining on those pumps are superb.

 

[BHHOWARD]

Peter,

I can't express the admiration of the systems you and your team have created. The pictures, contributions, and number of hits on the thread speak for themselves. This exceeds any expectation I have imagined in these forums.

In discussing best practices, there are a few questions I have that I hope you, someone from your team, or contributors can answer.

My first set of questions revolve around the salt water storage container using a single container "“
1) Is there a specific location the top return bulkhead would ideally be placed?
2) Is there a target gph flow rate that should be used to determine which external pump should be used to mix the salt and RO water?
3) Is it necessary to run the pump 24 x 7 if the salt water is being stored for a multiple smaller water changes over several days?
4) I have a concern that the RO waterline may leak because it is mounted on a round surface. Should this be a concern? If so, what technique and type of float/pressure switch can be used to locate it somewhere other than the side of the tank?

If it helps to provide specifics, I plan on using one of the below storage tanks (32" X 46") or (28" X 59") with a pan world/blueline/iwaki pump.

http://www.denhartogindustries.com/wp-content/uploads/product-pdfs/VT0130-32.pdf

http://www.denhartogindustries.com/wp-content/uploads/product-pdfs/VT0135-28.pdf

I have similar questions about using an ATO container, but will wait until the challenges with the sump are solved.

Thanks again for guiding this thread to provide invaluable information to this hobby/obsession.

Brian

 

[nineball]

I'm going to defer to mr. Wilson who in fact had to work through these issues and I have to admit quite successfully as there are no leaks and the ro di conversion to salt water works seamlessly.
Thank you very much for the generous comments. I honestly believe the continuing quality of information is a real community effort and that is a substantive benefit that will bring meaningful longevity to the positive experiences we are continuing to share in this thread.

Peter

 

[nineball]

Sorry

 

[mr.wilson]

1) Is there a specific location the top return bulkhead would ideally be placed?

Firstly, I inherited all of the holes in the vats from my predecessor so they aren't exactly how I would do them if I was starting from scratch. I was able to reuse the two vats in a completely different configuration with the same holes for different purposes.

The two top holes were drilled at slightly different heights, but it worked o my favour as the water runs from high (left) to low (right). We only use one vat for 20% water changes every two weeks. The other vat is there for emergencies.

The float valve is located in the left vat. As the water is pumped out of the right vat, the left vat refills it and the float valve drops.

2) Is there a target gph flow rate that should be used to determine which external pump should be used to mix the salt and RO water?

It doesn't take much to mix salt and keep the water oxygenated. A single air lift is enough, but they make noise and cause salt creep. If you are mixing salt in a hurry, a pump is more effective. In our case, the water has two weeks to mix. We could use just one pump if we wanted to, but we thought we would leave it open to isolate the two for utilitarian purposes, eg. having one for freshwater or as we have them now, one with a lower salinity for the fish acclimation/quarantine system.

3) Is it necessary to run the pump 24 x 7 if the salt water is being stored for a multiple smaller water changes over several days?

You only need to run the pump for a few hours before using it, but this may cause temperature changes that will allow salts to fall out of solution, namely calcium. You can store pure source water without an air lift or circulation pump, but once you add salt, you introduce bacteria so you are better off with an aerobic environment.

4) I have a concern that the RO waterline may leak because it is mounted on a round surface. Should this be a concern? If so, what technique and type of float/pressure switch can be used to locate it somewhere other than the side of the tank?

Many vats come with a flat area for bulkheads and floats. The float valve is above the water level so leaking isn't an issue. Alternatively, you can use an optic level sensor, an electronic float (mercury/reed switch), or a mechanical float valve mounted on a hanger.

If it helps to provide specifics, I plan on using one of the below storage tanks (32" X 46") or (28" X 59") with a pan world/blueline/iwaki pump.

They are all great pumps, just make sure it is pressure rated if it is pumping the water up any distance. Unless you need water for more than one purpose with more than one set of parameters, you are better off with just one vat. Keeping the lid closed will eliminate evaporation.

We have another fail safe that wil be going on the end of the saltwater fill line in the sump. It is a high volume mechanical float valve that shuts down if we forget we are filling the sump, or if the valve gets thrown by accident, as these things happen. I will post pics when we get there.

We don't have a freshwater reservoir. Our RO/DI system has a pretty fast production rate and we will always have 440 gallons of saltwater at the ready. We will likely add a kalkwasser reactor/mixer inline later on. Our top off for the sump includes a primary optical sensor with a solenoid controlled by the Profilux controller. A secondary, backup electronic float switch is there to shut the the solenoid off should the optical sensor fail. A mechanical float valve will be located at the top of the sump to shut the feed line should the solenoid stick in the on position for whatever reason.

We have a pressure tank for the mangrove watering system and the faucet for testing equipment etc. Spray nozzles and another solenoid are controlled by the Profilux controller. I have just ordered a Profilux 4 pump dosing pump for the live food feeding system, calcium reactor feed, and chemical dosing if required.

 

[BHHOWARD]

Firstly, I inherited all of the holes in the vats from my predecessor so they aren't exactly how I would do them if I was starting from scratch. I was able to reuse the two vats in a completely different configuration with the same holes for different purposes.

If you were starting from scratch, where would you have placed the middle bulkhead in these pictures (e.g. 50% up from the bottom, 25% up from the bottom, other)?

It doesn't take much to mix salt and keep the water oxygenated. A single air lift is enough, but they make noise and cause salt creep. If you are mixing salt in a hurry, a pump is more effective. In our case, the water has two weeks to mix. We could use just one pump if we wanted to, but we thought we would leave it open to isolate the two for utilitarian purposes, eg. having one for freshwater or as we have them now, one with a lower salinity for the fish acclimation/quarantine system.

What is the gph rating on the pump on the left vat, does it perform as expected, and would you pick the same pump again?

You only need to run the pump for a few hours before using it, but this may cause temperature changes that will allow salts to fall out of solution, namely calcium. You can store pure source water without an air lift or circulation pump, but once you add salt, you introduce bacteria so you are better off with an aerobic environment.

So I assume you run the pumps 24 x 7?

Many vats come with a flat area for bulkheads and floats. The float valve is above the water level so leaking isn't an issue. Alternatively, you can use an optic level sensor, an electronic float (mercury/reed switch), or a mechanical float valve mounted on a hanger.

Sounds like the float being above the water elevates the leaking concern.

They are all great pumps, just make sure it is pressure rated if it is pumping the water up any distance. Unless you need water for more than one purpose with more than one set of parameters, you are better off with just one vat. Keeping the lid closed will eliminate evaporation.

We have another fail safe that wil be going on the end of the saltwater fill line in the sump. It is a high volume mechanical float valve that shuts down if we forget we are filling the sump, or if the valve gets thrown by accident, as these things happen. I will post pics when we get there.

We don't have a freshwater reservoir. Our RO/DI system has a pretty fast production rate and we will always have 440 gallons of saltwater at the ready. We will likely add a kalkwasser reactor/mixer inline later on. Our top off for the sump includes a primary optical sensor with a solenoid controlled by the Profilux controller. A secondary, backup electronic float switch is there to shut the the solenoid off should the optical sensor fail. A mechanical float valve will be located at the top of the sump to shut the feed line should the solenoid stick in the on position for whatever reason.

Looking forward to seeing the ATO, reactors, and sump pictures when they are finished.

Thanks again,
Brian

 

[aquaenthusiast]

Who makes these pumps? I like them a lot.

 

[mr.wilson]

Who makes these pumps? I like them a lot.

http://www.venotec.de/

They are supposed to be showing up on the Deltec skimmer line at some point in time. Royal Exclusiv has a new DC brushless pump series for their Bubble King line coming in the new year. The prices are going to stay the same for the BK line, with a $100 bump to the mini. That puts BK on top again with the best skimmer and competitive pricing. When there's value for money, it changes everything.

I'm testing another brand of DC pump now. If it lives up to expectations, it will be more efficient and less money than the Abyzz pumps. The Abyzz does have the best controller though.

 

[mr.wilson]

If you were starting from scratch, where would you have placed the middle bulkhead in these pictures (e.g. 50% up from the bottom, 25% up from the bottom, other)?

It actually didn't work out so bad. From a functionality standpoint, I'm not sure if I could do better. The original system was completely different and made absolutely no sense.

The mixing pump should be close to the bottom so you can access as much water as possible, but there is a benefit to leaving sediment behind, so leave a few inches. A 90 elbow is enough to get you down lower if the bulkhead placement is limited.

The mixing pump output is more efficient at the top, but it does splash and make noise if the water level is low. The vat fills quickly so it wouldn't be a big issue with ours. I have the output pointing up to the surface and the pumps are pressure rated for 21' so it has good surface movement. This is another area where a smaller pump and a penductor/eductor would help mix the water for fewer watts.

I added a second valve to the right side vat at the output, just left of the tee. I ran out of valves when I was assembling it. As it turns out, it wasn't necessary, as the pressure pump favours the straight line to the sump even though it gets pumped up 7' and over 20', rather than the quick tee off to the adjacent vat. Anyway, the more valves the better. I like to make things symmetrical so I can switch things around in the event of pump failure or utility use of the pumping system. I can quickly switch the sump fill line from one pump/vat to the other if necessary. You don't have that convenience if your hose length is limited and you mix and match fittings. True union ball valves are the way to go.

What is the gph rating on the pump on the left vat, does it perform as expected, and would you pick the same pump again?

Both pumps are titanium Velocity/Poseidon/Liang/ITT V3 models They are pressure rated for 21' max head with 850 GPH @ zero head. The flow curve is pretty strong at the low end with little impact over the first 6'. You can check the output on the RC head loss calculator, as they have the V3 listed. They heat the water a little, but not any more than Iwaki. A little heat is good for water changes, no heater needed.

So I assume you run the pumps 24 x 7?

Sounds like the float being above the water elevates the leaking concern.

Looking forward to seeing the ATO, reactors, and sump pictures when they are finished.

Yes x 3.

Bulkheads are still tricky on curves, the bigger the tank the lesser the curve to deal with. Some people use Uniseals, but I just use standard bulkheads and double up the rubber washer on the inside (trade secret #2411). You could heat up the fitting with a torch and bend it to shape, but I think it's overkill. Schedule 80 bulkheads are easier to work with, but you lose I.D. and they are much more expensive than aquarium or pool bulkheads. There is a company called Banjo out of the midwest that makes a nice heavy duty Bulkhead.

 

[skanderson]

the dc pump you show in the pic looks alot like a brushless dc pump i was thinking about buying out of china. the price for a sample pump was in the mid 30s. in quantity they are alot cheaper than that. would be cool to find a nice dc pump to play around with for some diy mods.

 

[mr.wilson]

the dc pump you show in the pic looks alot like a brushless dc pump i was thinking about buying out of china. the price for a sample pump was in the mid 30s. in quantity they are alot cheaper than that. would be cool to find a nice dc pump to play around with for some diy mods.

You get what you pay for. You are probably looking at 400 GPH fountain pumps that aren't reef safe.

One of the DC pumps I have has a motor from China and moving parts and controller from Europe. They cost half of what the ABYZZ pumps cost ($1,000.00) but the control features are limited to just RPMs. I can't sell them until they have undergone thorough testing.

 

[wtac]

The main issue, IMHO/E, w/Chinese made products/components is the QC/QA. Outsourcing for the first few shipments will be fine and the product QC/QA rep lets go of the reigns a little and that's where issues arise. They pretty much must have someone there full time to oversee and take random samplings for testing as well as ensuring that the right product actually gets loaded onto the ship.

A friend of mine who owns a small wood flooring company went bankrupt because of this. He went over, liked the bamboo floors and ordered 2x40' containers. When he received the containers here, it wasn't at all what he saw and ordered.

My old business partner I almost went bankrupt dealing w/a Taiwanese company which sent products that were and soon to be expired.

Being Chinese (Hong Kong) myself, I am hesitant using/recommending Asian branded and manufactured products. With North American/European branded, Asian made products, it's easier to deal with issues, IME.