Corallivore Butterflyfish

That's so neat!! One thing I would like to know though... will any specimen do this if the time/effort put in by Mr. Takama is replicated? Or does one have to go through several to find that one that will adapt?

Also, I'd like to know what exactly is in the fuge that they graze on?
 
I second what Peter is saying. Is it his process and husbandry, or is it going through 100 fish to find the one that will thrive with a captive diet?

Also, completely separate note, are we allowed to link to Glassbox on here now? I know you weren't able to before. If so, I think it was a great move allowing this! Hopefully we can do the same with RB and other reefing websites!
 
You guys notice the little Amphichaetodon howensis in the pic? Now THAT is freaking cool!

From the article...

"Living in Japan, Mr. Takama is able to collect multiple Chaetodon species close to home. This is a significant advantage as he is able to get extremely small juveniles"“similar to some fish that are sold as "œtank raised". Additionally, there is very less travel time from ocean to aquarium"

This is a HUGE advantage... in all reality any reef fish should in theory be able to be kept... these fish are not THAT delicate, as the shallow water reef environment is a rough neighborhood to live in... I respect greatly the efforts of many of these dedicated pioneers...

Copps
 
copps said:
This is a HUGE advantage... in all reality any reef fish should in theory be able to be kept... these fish are not THAT delicate, as the shallow water reef environment is a rough neighborhood to live in... I respect greatly the efforts of many of these dedicated pioneers...

Copps
Click to expand...

I really hope my questions don't sound disrespectful :o. The successful history is listed right there, there's no denying it. I certainly mean no disrespect, nor am I trying to lessen his success. I'd love to personally keep these fish, so you'll have to excuse me for wanting as many details as possible. :D

Look, clams on the half shell... nothing new. Refugiums... nothing new. Obtaining fat tiny (not sure how tiny we are talking here) versions of some of these fish... nothing new (I saw them with my own eyes 20 years ago as "assorted" butterflies - even tried a few). Something, some details, or some combination, is different here, and I'd love to know what it is.
 
Hey Guys

@Copps
The Amphichaetodon grew quite large, but eventually perished. Takama subsequently had the fish preserved and is part of his large fish taxidermy collection! Including the Paracentropyge hybrid...!

SDguy said:
so you'll have to excuse me for wanting as many details as possible. :D

...

Something, some details, or some combination, is different here, and I'd love to know what it is.
Click to expand...

As John emphasized, the most significant difference is the fish's young age and short transit times. These fish are collected extremely small (think 1" from mouth to tail) and experience no significant shipment trauma or empty stomachs.

Unless an aquarist has these fish naturally occurring nearby, I don't believe it is possible to replicate what Takama is doing. That's not to say success could not be achieved in other ways.
 
wow first person i see with success. i always read these fish should never be in a home aquarium.. but hey looks like he loves them and takes good care. kudos
 
Todd long time no see.

But yes, the fact that he can collect them and bring them right home, I think makes a huge difference!
 
Yep, that's one of the biggest issues. They suffer in transit & almost always have some disease to fight curbing their appetite.

That specific clam species he's feeding may be a breakthrough too. They look a lot smaller than the clam species we have access to in the states.
 
Thanks for the replies. I'll admit though, I still think more than size of the fish and "freshness" from the ocean is at play here. Regardless, it's a truly awesome sight to see these fish, fat, in captivity long term. I hope to one day get to do it myself!
 
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glassbox-design said:
As John emphasized, the most significant difference is the fish's young age and short transit times. These fish are collected extremely small (think 1" from mouth to tail) and experience no significant shipment trauma or empty stomachs.

Unless an aquarist has these fish naturally occurring nearby, I don't believe it is possible to replicate what Takama is doing. That's not to say success could not be achieved in other ways.
Click to expand...


It wasn't clear in the article. Did he collect the Red Sea specimens himself, thereby guaranteeing short transit time?
 
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The problem main problem with the current juvi Corallivores that trickle in, is that they are often are held for too long at the exporters, importers/wholesalers, etc. until they get to you. From what I've seen of various attempts, 3-5 days without food is quite detrimental to a juvi Butterfly. The unfortunate thing is that 5 days would be a very quick turn out for a fish that goes through the chain of custody. Couple that with a few days of recuperation time for shipping, and it's likely not going to end well.

Your best bet is a direct shipment. For us in the Lower 48, it's pretty much limited to Hawaii.

tcmfish said:
Todd long time no see.
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Yea, been a not-so-fun time, which kept me away from RC. I'll pm you later.
 
SDguy said:
I really hope my questions don't sound disrespectful :o. The successful history is listed right there, there's no denying it. I certainly mean no disrespect, nor am I trying to lessen his success. I'd love to personally keep these fish, so you'll have to excuse me for wanting as many details as possible. :D

Look, clams on the half shell... nothing new. Refugiums... nothing new. Obtaining fat tiny (not sure how tiny we are talking here) versions of some of these fish... nothing new (I saw them with my own eyes 20 years ago as "assorted" butterflies - even tried a few). Something, some details, or some combination, is different here, and I'd love to know what it is.
Click to expand...

Peter, my comments were in no way directed at you... in fact I agree with your concerns and wonder the same thing! You know me... I'm laid back... I never give shots to people... especially ones that chauffeured me around so graciously as you did! :fun2:

As you mention each of those things is nothing new really... but when you combine them along with a dedicated and knowledgeable hobbyist with a passion you could see the result...


AuroraDrvr said:
The problem main problem with the current juvi Corallivores that trickle in, is that they are often are held for too long at the exporters, importers/wholesalers, etc. until they get to you. From what I've seen of various attempts, 3-5 days without food is quite detrimental to a juvi Butterfly. The unfortunate thing is that 5 days would be a very quick turn out for a fish that goes through the chain of custody. Couple that with a few days of recuperation time for shipping, and it's likely not going to end well.

Your best bet is a direct shipment. For us in the Lower 48, it's pretty much limited to Hawaii.
Click to expand...

This is very true... very small fish are a double edged sword really... their ability to adapt to a captive diet is much much stronger than a larger individual... this goes for many families of fish... angels... butterflies... moorish idols even... on trip this month to Hawaii I collected a juvie moorish idol myself, and it's back and eating in QT already. But on the other hand the ability for a very small fish to handle continuous shipments in the chain of custody, and the subsequent near lack of feeding along the way, is much much weaker than that of larger individuals!

My theory has always been that juvenile fish are much more opportunistic feeders... it's a rough life on a coral reef, especially for small juvenile fish, and they need to take what they could get food wise... larger individuals will often rule the roost and could be much more specific about their diets and get set in their ways... humans are not that different... we have a guy I work with that grew up in the midwest on almost exclusively meat and potatoes... that is basically all he'll eat. I grew up having been exposed to many different foods and love seafood and most everything for instance... most people that do not like seafood, for instance, were usually not exposed to it at a young age... while those that do like seafood were... similarly, a butterfly that grows up with an abundance of *insert Acropora species* will be very unlikely to change their ways later in life in captivity... one that is exposed to other foods very early on in life will adapt to other foods (like us humans!)... I have never believed that there is some magic nutritious component that these butterflies are getting from corals, but rather a result of what I address above...

AuroraDrvr said:
The problem main problem with the current juvi Corallivores that trickle in, is that they are often are held for too long at the exporters, importers/wholesalers, etc. until they get to you.
Click to expand...

Actually Todd this is a problem with many juvie fish that trickle in... even the ones that adapt well!

Copps
 
copps said:
Actually Todd this is a problem with many juvie fish that trickle in... even the ones that adapt well!
Click to expand...
Absolutely correct, didn't mean to imply otherwise.

However, long holding times do seem to affect the delicate species (BFs, Angels, etc.) a bit more than say juvi clownfish or lionfish.
 
copps said:
My theory has always been that juvenile fish are much more opportunistic feeders...
Click to expand...

I agree. Chaetodon trifascialis waifs to Hawaii, but the lack of tabling acropora there starves the older fish. So only juvis are found there. It would be interesting if his fish live to a certain age or size, when their diet shifts.

Just throwin info around, don't really know the answers or why it happens?
 
Tim, interestingly the Acropora waif too! Earlier this month in Hawaii I met and had dinner with Rick Klobuchar, the coral expert at the Waikiki Aquarium... he showed me frags taken from this exact coral found in Kauai... Acropora in the main Hawaiian Islands... freaking amazing! They still have no idea where it came from! This is still the only Acropora species ever documented in the main Hawaiian Islands and very few colonies have been found... all along the Napali Coast of Kauai... I had known about these for a few years but seeing frags in front of me brought tears to my eyes! This Acropora is like the Centropyge nahackyi of the coral world!

http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-preview.axd?code=r376714561776j3w&size=largest
 
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