Creature Morpheus - 3,000+ gallon multi-tank system (Canada)

[CreativeGuy]

Flow Recap

Flow Recap

Flow in external overflow box:

Based on the follow filtration component requirements:

Gallons per Hour Low Projected Target High

Skimmer 4,000 5,000 6,000
Bio Filter 1,000 1,500 1,800
Refugium 500 700 800
ATS 1,500 1,800 2,000

Sub-Total 7,000 9,000 10,600

Weir Sizing:

So the design of the wier section into the exterior box being very limited to a 26” width, and the maximum flow rate of 10,600 gph, the required height would have to be 26” x 1.75” based on open wier calculations. Allowing for screen losses, the depth should be 2” (2” x 26” = 12,800 gph). There shall be four effluent pipes.

Interior Divider/overflow:

The interior overflow box shall have a 46” width with an adjustable slotted skimming plates at a depth 1/2” under the exterior overflow. However, within this interior partioned section are the closed loop pipes, (the two suction (effluent) lines and returns to the tanks - two 2” clockwise/cc bottom loops, 4@1” Oceans, and the detritus loop and also the top of tank returns). These flows shall be in the flow ranges of 8,000 to 10,000 gph. These may seem low, but due to the system being designed with the use of eductors for increasing flow and use of VFD pumps (variable flow under pressure), the net flow is is 3-1/2 to 5 times greater in circulated flow.

Closed Loops:

I have been engineering the bottom closed loops with 11 eductors. The after researching eductors, my choice were ones with a 30 degree dispursion and 5 times increased effective circulation (they have a little penguin on them). I have been on the phone several times with the manufacturer and in detailed discussions with the original design engineer of the eductors about the specifics of this application and flow dynamics.

Picture of Eductors

I am setting up and doing some trials to see how long it tanks to reverse the flow from clockwise to counter clockwise in my 330g tank in my garage on a temporary system because the large display tank is probably 4-5 months away from being installed.

Getting back to the interior box, the bottom is not closed off as most of the pipes discribed above go over top the tank and under/across the bottom. The two suction lines (3” diameter) draw from halfway down the vertical height. Surround the pipes at the bottom shall be partially blocked using man-made rock to minimize fish and critters migrating behind.

Maybe when I find some time to learn how to draw better in 3D, I can illustrate it better.

So for now, have to go and move the live sand into the garage (out of the sunlight) to stop the growth of algae already.

Have a good day All :bounce1:

 

[dave.m]

Everything I have read or been told about gyre flow insists that the flow from bottom to top is far more important than side to side. You might want to review that aspect.

Dave.M

 

[CreativeGuy]

@Dave.m

Flow and quality of flow is very important, and considered in how these are implemented.
Discussions about the flow have been with many parties who are use to water flow dynamics in reef tanks and shall be reviewed further.
Heading to Toronto within a couple weeks to talk with several people up there (Paul from Oceans; Peter (nineballs) and Shawn Wilson) and also TIm Marks of EcoTech and Stuart Bertram of D-D and Saxby in England by email. It is work in progress. Still try to listen to what everyone has to say, including you Dave.

As I tried to explain in the earlier post, every other eductor is pointed upwards and more over the rock scape (like at 35 to 40 degrees from the glass and upwards at 45 degrees. THe alternating ones are pointed more parallel to the sides at about 15 degree off set from the glass and a it more horizontal (closer to a 25 degree incline)

So the motion is not only horizontal clockwise/cc, but also a bit of a barrel role.
To supplement this, at each upper corner are also four eductors on a separate closed loop that are on programable swivels to correspond to the cycles.

Another factor is the detritus loop shall be circulating from under the rock scape continuously on low and shall have intermittent bursts to clear anything under the rock. This will also cause flow though the rock assemblage. As will several discharges within the rock on the Oceans Motions 4-way. There will be two MP60s for during the transitional time.

An added note is that all the eductors shall be placed on omni-flex adjustable connectors that allow for 135 degrees of adjustment for flexibility.

As this project and scale of things is not typical, I have been trying to design things to be flexible as possible. There will be two months of trails and rock scaping before I start putting corals into the tank to change and adapt things. Maybe longer as I play with lighting aspects, which I have not even begun to work on.

 

[dave.m]

Shawn is a good person to talk to as he has implemented the vertical gyre in Peter's tank (let me know when you're going and I can meet you there). I can see that you have implemented this as well as the horizontal gyre. I just wanted to point out the greater importance of the vertical gyre.

Dave.M

 

[CreativeGuy]

Starting the Temporary Set Up in Garage

Starting the Temporary Set Up in Garage

Got to start somewhere.

In order to start curing or seeding some of the live rock, maintain the live sand, get the skimmer and bio-filter working and begin some trials with pumps and flow devices, am setting up a temporary system for several months in the garage. Going to get a simple circulation loop and gravity system going first. Then begin to get rock curing, followed by setting up the skimmer and other equipment.

RODI another project in the works

Still have to get my RODI system operational. I just bought my DI tanks (a pair of 6"x18") this week as well as a 100g storage tank to start with. Have to figure how to set up and get running my RO unit that I bought in the spring (800 gpd unit) going. The get everything working together and plumbed.


Intended Plan for the Temporary System:

- starting with an older Grundfos Stainless Steel VFD pump (although not well suited to salt water environments - will degrade within a year) for the trial system. Should allow for adjusting flow. Going to pump up to the 330g tank.
- the main purpose of setting up the 330g is to experiment with pumps and flow devices, and some rock formations.
- from one of the rear external overflow discharges of the 330g shall be directed to one of the 250g fiberglass tubs (later to be used as one module of the Deep Sand Bed) full of live rock (estimate 350-400 pounds) to cure/seed
- draining from the fiberglass tub via an overflow pipe into one of the 100g rubbermaids full of live sand and piped over to the second one and out into a sump
- the pump shall be connected to the sump to circulate the water back up to the tank.
- depending on how the sump is set up, the skimmer and bio-filter shall draw from and return to the sump. Will give me some experience with the equipment (pumps, air pump, plumbing).

Below is the beginning of the temporary set up.

 

[dave.m]

Just curious, why not set all this up in the basement since that's where it's all going to go for final set-up anyways? Also, setting up in the garage means you'll have to winterize the garage, an added expense.

Dave.M

 

[CreativeGuy]

@Dave.m

There are reasons to set temporary things up in the garage:

(i) the basement is not ready by a long shoot as it has been sloped to drains (over 1,500 sq ft) but is not tiled yet. Can't do the tiling until I cut the floor and put in pipes to where the tanks are going to be and where I want electrical for equipment.

(ii) I need/want to make sure of the final design of the equipment and custom sumps for exact layout in the basement. Want to experiment with several things before fabricating the acrylic sumps.

(iii) my garage has heated floors and is already winterized, so it is just about the heating expense.

(iv) it does make it easier for me to toy with and fabricate things in my garage than up and down into the basement.

(v) The temporary system allows me to cure the rock, set up and see how one of the two full scale DSB modules function, try in the 330g how the deeper sugar fine sand gets blown around with the eductors and rock strategies, get my skimmer working and allow it to get its bio-film layer built-up, etc.. All without any major worry of harming corals and fish during the cycling period.

(vi) I need to gain the experience. To me it is a necessary exercise. The expense is mainly my time and efforts, some pipe and fittings, all worth the experienced gained.
Even now in planning the temporary set up, the system design has changed as I am attempting to get things rolling. If I had years of experience that most of you have, it may have taken a different approach. My goal is to learn as to avoid costly expenditures of financial, live stock, resources and time in the system build and renovating the house.

(vii) Patience is required: in my abilities to learn the things I need to (many I know, but have not had the time to investigate and come up to speed; others I don't even know I need to know); to discuss and interact with various people about the components and equipment, biology, flow, lighting, fabrication details, etc., that I am making contacts and setting up meetings over the next few months.

Please remember that 18 months ago, I was just a simple admirer of beautiful reef aquariums with absolutely no knowledge of what it took for a system of this calibre. It has helped I have a systems engineering background, but the learning curve is steep in this hobby. I feel I have been doing pretty good this past year and will get there with a first class system that performs (hopefully, lol).

 

[dave.m]

Please don't consider my questions as criticisms. You already have far more experience than I have. I only ask because I am trying to learn by following your journey.

Dave.M

 

[hustle]

Amazing project I am in awe already....
Cant wait to see the skimmers

 

[muttley000]

Any updates??

 

[r-balljunkie]

wheels fall off the morpheus bus??

 

[jdm18honda]

sweet setups can't wait for more

 

[CreativeGuy]

Yeah, the Bus runs out of gas quickly when you work for many months on two large jobs and don't get paid on either. One goes bankrupt and the other says "don't have ... sue me". Seems every year these days you do work in good faith, but people do not pay. As a result, there are priorities to pay bills, expenses and recovery from losses, when money becomes tight, hobbies end up taking on a much lower priority. Somewhat glad was at a stage I could suspend things without jeopardizing any life.

Hoping to get at some things in the new year again on things that I already have. Other things shall have to wait a while.

Hope everyone had a great holiday and wishes them a Happy and prosperous New Year.

 

[muttley000]

Bummer, hope things turn around for you soon, I want to see this thing come to life in a bad way!

 

[joemelo]

subscribed.
just around the corner creative guy. When things are up and running let me know. I'd be glad to help out.

 

[Feriation]

Stumbled upon this somehow, and was really interested. But there have been no updates in close to 4 months! D: Come back!! I want to know more about Morpheus!!!

 

[andrew9]

wow good luck!

 

[Whitelight]

Any updates since last September?