Critique my QT/ich removal procedure

rffanat1c

New member
Hey all, I'm new here but have been on another site for six months but constantly read here as well. After loosing three fish (ich related maybe velvet) a couple of months ago I've started over. My 90G DT has been fallow since January 7th and that's the last time I added corals.

My 37G QT has been cycled and running since 12/5/14. (Bare bottom, pvc, the big square filter media for bacteria) and has had my two maroon clowns in it since January 14. I was going to treat copper regardless but have decided against it since it is so stressful.

My plan is to do prazipro and then on day 60 of my fallow period, I'm going to start TTM. End the TTM on day 72 and plop them in the DT. It'll actually be day 76 since being fish less but I started the timer again adding the corals. My maroons will be the only two fish in the tank and I do have a 10G for just corals.

I'll take any advice/criticism. Thanks!
 

TitanCi

In Memoriam
Not the expert but I would venture a guess and think they would tell you NOT to plop them in your tank at day 72 or even 76 for that matter.

Reason being what IF you didn't get rid of the ich? What if you weren't meticulous in your ttm and Lo and behold... It appears in your display on day.... 77. Now it's in your display rather than being in a qt where you could retreat.
 

rffanat1c

New member
That's a good point. I guess Ive read so much of snorvich's confidence in the method I wasn't worried about that. I can't really TTM them and put them back in QT though since if the QT does have ich, they'll just be reinfected.
 

andy01748

New member
Not the expert but I would venture a guess and think they would tell you NOT to plop them in your tank at day 72 or even 76 for that matter.

Reason being what IF you didn't get rid of the ich? What if you weren't meticulous in your ttm and Lo and behold... It appears in your display on day.... 77. Now it's in your display rather than being in a qt where you could retreat.

That's a good point. I guess Ive read so much of snorvich's confidence in the method I wasn't worried about that. I can't really TTM them and put them back in QT though since if the QT does have ich, they'll just be reinfected.

I'm much more of a lurker here, and even though I think I have the knowledge to answer your question, I leave it to our residence experts to also respond, as you should trust their reply more than one from a much less experienced hobbyist such as myself. However, I am responding and welcome corrections/criticisms because it also lets me know I have not correctly absorbed what I believe to be true.

1. There is a scientific basis behind why the TTM method and fallow period requirements being what they are, based on the known life cycle of ich, and some of the extremes observed. Therefore, you can have a high degree of confidence in the recommended process.

2. Successful TTM is based on key components that break the life cycle of ich. For a minimum of a fifteen day period, fish must continually be transferred into an ich free environment every 72 hours or less. If you don't meet all these requirements, then you must restart the entire process.

3. To eliminate ich from a system that has been exposed to ich, you stay fallow for 72 days. Since ich requires a fish host to continue its life cycle, this waiting period assumes that all the cysts have 'hatched' and failed to find a host, thereby breaking the parasites life cycle.

3. We are dealing with complex living organisms here. There is a fine-line between being prudent and being paranoid! The majority of the time, the ich cycle runs 7-14 days (hence why the visual symptoms appear to come and go in this time frame) but extremes have been noted on either end. TTM accounts for the short end extreme, such that even if the ich cycle is shorter, you have accounted for it by following the 72 hour maximum transfer rule. The 72 day fallow period accounts for the long end extreme, so that even if the cycle is longer for some of the ich cysts, you have now accounted for that.

Can you still have ich if you follow these recommendations? Yes, in that nothing can be 100% guaranteed, but statistically the chances are extremely low. If you want to have any livestock in your DT, at some point you have to assume the odds are in your favor!

Therefore, after completing TTM (which makes your fish ich free) you can transfer them to your ich free DT (because it has been fallow). You are correct that your QT setup is not ich free, and putting them back in the QT would negate the TTM process you would have just completed.
 

snorvich

Team RC member
Team RC
I'm much more of a lurker here, and even though I think I have the knowledge to answer your question, I leave it to our residence experts to also respond, as you should trust their reply more than one from a much less experienced hobbyist such as myself. However, I am responding and welcome corrections/criticisms because it also lets me know I have not correctly absorbed what I believe to be true.

1. There is a scientific basis behind why the TTM method and fallow period requirements being what they are, based on the known life cycle of ich, and some of the extremes observed. Therefore, you can have a high degree of confidence in the recommended process.

2. Successful TTM is based on key components that break the life cycle of ich. For a minimum of a fifteen day period, fish must continually be transferred into an ich free environment every 72 hours or less. If you don't meet all these requirements, then you must restart the entire process.

3. To eliminate ich from a system that has been exposed to ich, you stay fallow for 72 days. Since ich requires a fish host to continue its life cycle, this waiting period assumes that all the cysts have 'hatched' and failed to find a host, thereby breaking the parasites life cycle.

3. We are dealing with complex living organisms here. There is a fine-line between being prudent and being paranoid! The majority of the time, the ich cycle runs 7-14 days (hence why the visual symptoms appear to come and go in this time frame) but extremes have been noted on either end. TTM accounts for the short end extreme, such that even if the ich cycle is shorter, you have accounted for it by following the 72 hour maximum transfer rule. The 72 day fallow period accounts for the long end extreme, so that even if the cycle is longer for some of the ich cysts, you have now accounted for that.

Can you still have ich if you follow these recommendations? Yes, in that nothing can be 100% guaranteed, but statistically the chances are extremely low. If you want to have any livestock in your DT, at some point you have to assume the odds are in your favor!

Therefore, after completing TTM (which makes your fish ich free) you can transfer them to your ich free DT (because it has been fallow). You are correct that your QT setup is not ich free, and putting them back in the QT would negate the TTM process you would have just completed.

I agree.
 

rffanat1c

New member
Thanks for the responses and glad I wasn't off base here. Andy you write they must be transferred for 15 days. Steve everything you write says 12 days?
 

Deinonych

New member
I'm much more of a lurker here, and even though I think I have the knowledge to answer your question, I leave it to our residence experts to also respond, as you should trust their reply more than one from a much less experienced hobbyist such as myself. However, I am responding and welcome corrections/criticisms because it also lets me know I have not correctly absorbed what I believe to be true.

1. There is a scientific basis behind why the TTM method and fallow period requirements being what they are, based on the known life cycle of ich, and some of the extremes observed. Therefore, you can have a high degree of confidence in the recommended process.

2. Successful TTM is based on key components that break the life cycle of ich. For a minimum of a fifteen day period, fish must continually be transferred into an ich free environment every 72 hours or less. If you don't meet all these requirements, then you must restart the entire process.

3. To eliminate ich from a system that has been exposed to ich, you stay fallow for 72 days. Since ich requires a fish host to continue its life cycle, this waiting period assumes that all the cysts have 'hatched' and failed to find a host, thereby breaking the parasites life cycle.

3. We are dealing with complex living organisms here. There is a fine-line between being prudent and being paranoid! The majority of the time, the ich cycle runs 7-14 days (hence why the visual symptoms appear to come and go in this time frame) but extremes have been noted on either end. TTM accounts for the short end extreme, such that even if the ich cycle is shorter, you have accounted for it by following the 72 hour maximum transfer rule. The 72 day fallow period accounts for the long end extreme, so that even if the cycle is longer for some of the ich cysts, you have now accounted for that.

Can you still have ich if you follow these recommendations? Yes, in that nothing can be 100% guaranteed, but statistically the chances are extremely low. If you want to have any livestock in your DT, at some point you have to assume the odds are in your favor!

Therefore, after completing TTM (which makes your fish ich free) you can transfer them to your ich free DT (because it has been fallow). You are correct that your QT setup is not ich free, and putting them back in the QT would negate the TTM process you would have just completed.

Very well said. Nice summary!
 

andy01748

New member
Thanks for the responses and glad I wasn't off base here. Andy you write they must be transferred for 15 days. Steve everything you write says 12 days?

I do 5 transfers of 3 days each. The process may have been modified slightly, and I think I've seen responses that the 5th transfer is an extra margin of safety.
 

snorvich

Team RC member
Team RC
I do 5 transfers of 3 days each. The process may have been modified slightly, and I think I've seen responses that the 5th transfer is an extra margin of safety.

it is extra, but extra safety is never a problem. Critical success factors are less than 72 hours per cycle and a dry clean tank for the next cycle.
 

rffanat1c

New member
Good to know. I will start this sometime in early March to coincide with my DT. I just need some more 5 gallon buckets, air stone, air pump, tubing, and another heater. And yes I will get enough stones and tubing to throw away after each transfer.
 
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