Cryptocaryon Irritans - tank transfer method

doesn't sound like ich, but i am having a brain freeze on what the bumps may be caused by. when Ich jump off the fish that is when you see the white dots, which are the exit wounds from them popping out of the skin. they are way too small to cause noticeable bumps.

what equipment and hiding places are you using during TTM? any chance that something sponged up some of the bleach not allowing it dry completely?

what size tank are you treating him in?

The tank has pvc pipe for hiding places and is generally covered to darken the tank and limit disturbance from people walking past. The main QT is 80 litres but i am moving him to a single 40L tank just for him for the time being. All tanks that are used for tank transfer are around 40 litres. They are basic plastic tubs - easy to clean and I have plenty to allow for adequate drying time.

I cant be 100% that there wasn't some moisture somewhere I noticed where the cable enters the top of the heater there is an area some moisture can be trapped but I leave the heaters out in the sun (even during Autumn in QLD the temps have been around 27 - 30 C) for at least 24 - 36 hours.
 
Has anyone tried TTM on jawfish?

My limited experience with jawfish is until they get settled in, they are freaked out and don't eat. I think moving them every 3 days would keep them freaked out.

Any ideas?
 
Copper isn't an option at any lfs store in Maine, so I used the transfer method. I would advocate this method any day. It works just as good, if not better than copper and if you do it right, there is next to zero stress to the fish. First, they've proven ich can attach to some types of coral, glass, acrylic, plastic, filter media and a myriad Of other tank tools as well as some CORAL (for some reason, not starfish though, which I find odd since they CAN attach to sea urchins). So QT EVERYTHING YOU BRING IN. Secondly, it does not take a lot of equipment. For my two clowns I used two, two gallon tanks and a ten gallon. The tanks are not established. All start with brand new water. No sand, no filtration. Only a bubbler and a heater and a fishing net or turkey baster is required (for removing excess food and waste at the end of the day). You also need two hours fairly early in the morning so organize schedules accordingly. All tank parameters must match exactly. This was responsible for the absence of stress in my recovering fish. Saline must be exact because changes in saline, even minor ones, can really stress them out. Ph and heat can too, so stick to the same water source and have heated SPRING water ready. I use spring water to start because I use this to kill off anything that might survive the over night vinegar soaking between tank transfers. I also allow complete drying of the tank to occur. I treat my water (also helps to keep down ammonia briefly in a filter less tank). I get my parameters right. I transfer my fish (WITHOUT A NET). The net is only fir picking up wasted food four minutes after feeding. I feed twice a day and check ammonia and in the two gallon tanks they always read zero come the next day. My nitrites are zero, nitrates between five and eight (not too bad considering my DT runs around 15-20). Calcium is 425, ph might run slightly low with spring water so keep an eye on that. When I transfer my fish, they feel like they are going into the same water (according to tests) as much as possible. No stress. The tanks appear identical. Bubbler and heater are cleaned with vinegar, rinsed dried and replaced (rinse and dry WELL or you'll mess up your alk and ph with the vinegar) and are placed in the exact same place. When I tried hypo, as slow as I tried dropping the salinity and as well as I held it, my fish almost died purely from the stress of it. I do not advocate hypo, though I don't begrudge anyone who's managed to make it work for them, but I find this works better than anything else I have tried. It's chem. free, low stress and just a bit more work. If you don't have extra tanks, anything big enough to hold two gallons of water will work (not metal). Only other thing is to soak everything you use in vinegar over night to kill anything that might be on it. Even one drip of infected water can reinfect your fish so don't share tools with your DT. I transfer from two gallon to two gallon every morning for 12 days. Then they go into the QT ten gallon tank for the remaining ten or eleven weeks (yes you heard that right). Altogether it's 13-14 weeks, give or take a couple of days. For this tank I use RO/DI water and I change it out exactly as I did the two gallons, once a week (so they spend a day a week back in the two gallon) vinegar, drying and all. It sounds like a lot, but as long as your water doesn't change, they don't really stress. I use a simple hang on the back filter with carbon for the ten gallon and toss the carbon, putting in a new one every time I clean my tank and put in new water. I only have two baby clowns. I would not use two gallons for more or bigger fish than that. I stick to a one gallon per inch of fish rule (just for those 12 days). After that it's two gallons per one inch of fish. I really feel stress is a big part of fish loss during ich treatment. That, and ich on the gills. One you can help and one you can't, but I'll take what control I can for them. One last thing... I never feed more than twice a day during this. This is to hold the water more steady in such a small environment. After they are in the ten gallon, I feed three times, but I am meticulous about vacuuming out the bottom after with a piece of air line hose. You can pinch it so you don't remove too much water while you clean, just removing the detritus. This method has left me totally ich free. I hope it helps someone else. Both fish survived. Judge your fish though. If you have a particular type of fish who does not handle transfer well, you would be much better off with copper. Those are the only two methods I support myself.
 
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OK - What do you use for water circulation/aeration on the Rubbermaid tubs? I don't think an empty HOB filter would hang nicely on the edge for me; an air pump and stone, maybe?
Thank you!

I use a bubbler. If you have lots of fish and absolutely must need filtration, I would go with a water bottle, bubbler, really good filter media (ceramic or better... look for both porous and rough). The white filter will have to be thrown out and a new one put in every change and the media will have to be disinfected every time. You have to use different things for each tank and disinfect anything you use between transfers. That includes filter media, but the cotton filters have to be thrown. Holes punched in the bottom, holes punched into the top around the bottle cap. One larger hole (for the hair line hose) just about two inches below the cap and put small bubbler on after you feed the air line hose into the bottle. Then pour in your ceramic media and lastly put in your fluvial cotton filter (only need a half of one). I attach two suction cups to the bottle (easy just make holes in sides of the bottle a bit smaller than the knob on the back of the suction cups and when you push the knobs through the holes, they will stay and it's pretty air tight too. This way you can easily place it anywhere. You don't need to use one that hangs. Turn the bottle upside down. Plug in air line hose and place into tank bottom up, cap side down. This is a great method and it is easy to change out. soak media in vinegar or bleach and let dry completely prior to reuse (very important to let dry completely). Personally, though I would go without. Hope it helps.
 
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I just completed a 12 day tank transfer process for some new fish and was pretty happy with the process. I cleaned everything with bleach and then dried them for a minimum of 24hrs. I am comfortable I didn't comtaminate.

After the process though I had a chance to question my process. During the period I had a mesh top on the tank to prevent jumpers and moved this to each tank. One thing I noticed post TTM wa that the mesh had signs of salt creep which I assume was from the bubbles from the air stone. Is it possible that ich could have accidentally been transferred to the mesh and then possibly dripped back into the next tank. Can ich be aerated? Weird question I know but just wondering. The fish are all in a final QT for observation over next four weeks so if I stuffed up the process then I can recover and start the TTM again.

If you are very worried about the bubbler for aeration, just use the airline hose without the bubbler and disinfect the air line hose.
 
Hello, in the middle of TTM on a Powder Brown Tang. When using Prazi during TTM is it ok to use Prime in the same tank as the Prazi?
 
Now I'm tank transferring a juvenile Blue Tang with CONFIRMED ich. This will be the ultimate test.

How did your blue tang go? I did exactly the same when I pulled all my fish from my DT and carried out the TTM after my Hippo Tang got ich. After TTM I decided to sell the tang because they are stressed so easily. So I placed all fish back in the DT except for the Blue Tang which stayed in the QT. About 3 days later only one fish showed signs of ich again......no prizes for guessing which one!
 
Just checking. I need to move the fish at 4:30am tomorrow due to work commitment. Is it OK if the next move is 74hrs later as I will go back to 6:30am moves. I normally maintain the gap between transfers at 72 hours exactly. Maybe I am little too pedantic?

Thanks
 
Just checking. I need to move the fish at 4:30am tomorrow due to work commitment. Is it OK if the next move is 74hrs later as I will go back to 6:30am moves. I normally maintain the gap between transfers at 72 hours exactly. Maybe I am little too pedantic?

Thanks

Less than 72 hours is important. Risk accumulates if 72 hours is exceeded.
 
I have a question. Sorry if I missed it earlier on in this thread. I have started using TTM for all new arrivals regardless If they show signs for crypto or not. Just seems like a good idea if I'm going to qt for two weeks anyway just for observation.

Anyway I finally received my first tang (white tail bristle tooth) and this is the first time for me using TTM on a tang. He arrived in very good health and ate very well the first couple days. I also made sure to feed him very well right before the first transfer and was pleased that he readily was accepting nori and a frozen mysis.

Since the first transfer he has stopped eating completely and swims erratically in circles bumping into things like he can't see them and swimming backwards. I've yet to see any real signs of any disease yet. I read this behavior can often be associated with extreme stress.

My question is how stressful is TTM for most tangs is this typical? Is the constant moving the cause for stress?

A little about my qt. Each tank is 30g using a DIY air stone and sponge filter, 100w heater set for 77 and S.G. 1.020. Each tank is synced perfectly before each transfer.

I've also added several good size pieces i PVC for cover. Each tank is identical even the way I arrange the PVC so each transfer is to a familiar environment. I have been using 2ml of prime on day 2 of each transfer but recently switched to 1ml on day one as ammonia and nutrient levels have stayed very low.

I was using a small led light on a timer but wasn't sure if it might be too bright or somehow contributing to the stress so now I have just opened the blinds a bit on a near by window for ambient light.

Thoughts?
 
I have a question. Sorry if I missed it earlier on in this thread. I have started using TTM for all new arrivals regardless If they show signs for crypto or not. Just seems like a good idea if I'm going to qt for two weeks anyway just for observation.

Anyway I finally received my first tang (white tail bristle tooth) and this is the first time for me using TTM on a tang. He arrived in very good health and ate very well the first couple days. I also made sure to feed him very well right before the first transfer and was pleased that he readily was accepting nori and a frozen mysis.

Since the first transfer he has stopped eating completely and swims erratically in circles bumping into things like he can't see them and swimming backwards. I've yet to see any real signs of any disease yet. I read this behavior can often be associated with extreme stress.

My question is how stressful is TTM for most tangs is this typical? Is the constant moving the cause for stress?

A little about my qt. Each tank is 30g using a DIY air stone and sponge filter, 100w heater set for 77 and S.G. 1.020. Each tank is synced perfectly before each transfer.

I've also added several good size pieces i PVC for cover. Each tank is identical even the way I arrange the PVC so each transfer is to a familiar environment. I have been using 2ml of prime on day 2 of each transfer but recently switched to 1ml on day one as ammonia and nutrient levels have stayed very low.

I was using a small led light on a timer but wasn't sure if it might be too bright or somehow contributing to the stress so now I have just opened the blinds a bit on a near by window for ambient light.

Thoughts?

Hard to say, but that doesn't sound like typical behavior and it's highly unlikely the light is causing stress. When my Kole tang (same genus as your fish) went through TTM, it didn't phase him at all. He was a little stressed after the first transfer, but got used it it after that. Never stopped eating during the process.

Only time I've ever had problems was when I didn't allow enough time for new saltwater to aerate. IME, it needs to "cure" for at least 24 hours before it's ready to use with live animals.

Can you post a video of the behavior?
 
Hard to say, but that doesn't sound like typical behavior and it's highly unlikely the light is causing stress. When my Kole tang (same genus as your fish) went through TTM, it didn't phase him at all. He was a little stressed after the first transfer, but got used it it after that. Never stopped eating during the process.

Only time I've ever had problems was when I didn't allow enough time for new saltwater to aerate. IME, it needs to "cure" for at least 24 hours before it's ready to use with live animals.

Can you post a video of the behavior?

Thanks for the response. I feared but expected this was not normal behavior. He is doing better today for sure but I'm going to wait until tomorrow to try to feed again. He's got one last transfer before going in to the display.

I mix 200 gallons of IO at a time and recirculate it with a dart hybrid. It was mixed up about a week prior to starting the TTM so I don't suspect any problems there.
 
Thanks for the response. I feared but expected this was not normal behavior. He is doing better today for sure but I'm going to wait until tomorrow to try to feed again. He's got one last transfer before going in to the display.

I mix 200 gallons of IO at a time and recirculate it with a dart hybrid. It was mixed up about a week prior to starting the TTM so I don't suspect any problems there.

I'm actually have the same issue with my Hippo tang, after TTM it appeared to get ich but it actually looks like Lymphocystitis, I noticed that it wasn't reacting as well to TTM as my other fish and did stop eating for a while, although now it has been in the QT without movement few a couple of weeks it is eating well again.
I definitely think there is a stress factor on more sensitive species. I pick up a Purple Tang on Thursday and am debating whether to do TTM or not.
 
FWIW, i did TTM with a purple tang and 5 yellow tangs together in a 30g, twice with the same fish. Even with it that crowded I didn't notice any signs of stress. Everyone ate fine and got along fine.

I have yet to have had a negative experience with fish during TTM.
 
Okay, so i started copper tonight because a new fish introduced ich.

Would it be ill advised to switch to trying to do tank transfer instead? or should i just go along with copper since I already started it?
 
Okay, so i started copper tonight because a new fish introduced ich.

Would it be ill advised to switch to trying to do tank transfer instead? or should i just go along with copper since I already started it?

Not at all. In fact, TTM is better for the fish since they aren't subjected to toxic chemicals for treatment. TTM also cures them faster (12 days vs. a minimum of 30 for copper).
 
Not at all. In fact, TTM is better for the fish since they aren't subjected to toxic chemicals for treatment. TTM also cures them faster (12 days vs. a minimum of 30 for copper).

okay, i just wasnt sure if it would be overly stressfull to start copper then switch to ttm right after.

I'll go pick up a second 10 gallon tank from petco since there's still a $1/g tank sale, and do that.

ill check back to make sure no one else says no before i pick up the second 10g. thanks!
 
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