cyano bacteria

[IronMan72]

I need some advice. My 75G is 3 months old. I got the green hair algae bloom at about 30 days and it lasted about 2 weeks and was replaced with what I think it is cyano bacteria. It started to appear while the hair algae was going away as a small patch on the gravel. I think it peaked about a week ago, covering most everything at the bottom of the tank, even growing on the backs of a couple snails. I think it may finally be slowly receding. I've read that this is probably just a new tank issue that will eventually work itself out and/or that it may be related to high phosphates and nitrates. This is what I've done so far.

- reduced the frequency of feedings
- rinse all frozen foods in ro water
- vacuum the bacteria up with airline tubing
- change 20% of the water weekly with ro water
- increased flow in the tank to about 1500 gph, making sure that there is significant flow over the sand bed.

I've also recently added a sump with a refugium and plan to grow some macro algae to help export some of the nutrients that this bacteria may be feeding on.

My tank parameters are Ammonia = 0, Nitrite = 0, Nitrate < 10, Phosphate barely detectable. I currently have 30 lbs of LR in the tank and another 50 lbs that has been in a rubbermaid tub with a skimmer, powerhead and heater for a month and has been cured for two weeks.

Here's where I need some advice.

- Am I dealing with this correctly?
- Am I too concerned with a natural process of cycling the tank?
- What type of macro algae? Anyone local have any they need to harvest?
- Should I have a sand bed in the refugium? How deep?
- Do I add the new rock now or wait until the cyano is gone.

Any other good advice for a newb?

 

[dreaminmel]

I'd say you've done well with your approach so far. It seems every tank I set up goes through a cyano phase. I actually use it to find the right balance of feeding and water changes for each setup and don't get too concerned about it. As far as what algae to use in the fuge, many use chaeto and I'm sure someone near you could spare some next time they're pruning it. Mixed opinions exist on sand in refugiums. I added a little to mine (barely an inch deep) and it seems to have become a pod breeding ground. I'd go ahead and add the new rock now. If it's going to trigger any additional algae phases you might as well go through it now. Just my opinions. Others may have more feedback for you.

 

[IronMan72]

Thanks for the advice. I've tried to do my homework before asking any questions that have been asked a million times before. I guess I just thought the cyano outbreak would have come and gone as fast as the hair algae. It's good to know that I'm actually comprehending at least some of what I'm reading.

 

[IronMan72]

When placing the new rock I am going to use either egg crate or short lengths of pvc pipe standing on end to help support it. Is there anything I can do while shifting the sand around to help remove the cyano?

 

[EllieSuz]

I have Chaetomorpha that needs cutting back and you're welcome to some if you're up for the trip. I'm in Chili. It's a thick, healthy green and growing like crazy.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

When placing the new rock I am going to use either egg crate or short lengths of pvc pipe standing on end to help support it. Is there anything I can do while shifting the sand around to help remove the cyano?

JMO: I would avoid the use of eggcrate or PVC for supporting rock. Place rock directly on bottom glass (or starboard).

The cyano in this aquarium looks like a normal bloom cycle thing.

 

[cardiffgiant]

It sounds like you're on the right track. I started getting cyano when my current system was at about 5 months. If it gets really out of hand, shutting the lights off for 48 hours and covering the glass with news paper will kill all of it. It came back a couple of weeks later, but no where near as strong.

I've been running a refugium for a long time. The nutrient export is great, and the added benefit of the pod population has made keeping a mandarin very easy. I've run them with sand beds and without and I prefer them without sand beds. IME, the macro algae reduces flow enough that the sand bed just collected a bunch of detritus and added to nitrate levels over time.

I'll give you a handful of chaeto. Send me a PM when you're ready.

 

[Dave VG]

I had the same problem as Ben with sand in my sump. Ended up removing it which made things easer to clean as well. With the cheato only all you do is pull it out rinse it in a bucket of old water during a water change and prune if needed. Clean the bottom and be done with it. Just not that easy with sand in there as you cannot get all detritus out. I did remove the top layer of sand thinking it would help once but that just caused a mini cycle instead. Not good. Good luck

 

[dreaminmel]

All depends on how you do it I guess when it comes to sand in the refugium. Those who have seen my sump setup can vouch for how clean it is. All water coming down from the display goes through filter socks 24/7. My refugium isn't in the sump. I have a separate 10g plumbed in for that and still have no detritus buildup in the sand. The sand I used isn't the fine stuff so it actually allows a lot of space inside for little critters to multiply. I'm actually going to add some rubble to the mix shortly as well. The pros and cons of the sand can run across the same old debates of sand vs. no sand in a display. As long as you properly maintain it, it's fine. If I wasn't running filter socks I'd definately go without sand in the 'fuge for ease of cleaning detritus.

 

[tmz]

I prefer a bare bottom chateo refugium. I've used sand before and it got messy with algae exudate. Works for some but for me maintenance was an issue .

If you are placing live rock in a display with a sand bed, I would avoid burying it for 2 reasons:

1) The buried rock has organic material on it which will fuel bacteria in likely anoxic
(<0 ORP / 0 nitrate)areas around the buried rock. This can lead to the bacteria reducing SO4, sulfate , and the production of toxic hydrogen sulfide gas as a byproduct.

2)Sand under the rock will experience and upwelling of water and consequent downward flow . This occurs as a result of a change in water pressure as the flow of water hits the obstructing rock. This phenomenon is known as advection. It can help deliver CNP(organic carbon, nitrogen and phosphorous) and enough flow to maintain hypoxic (little to no free oxygen but plenty of nitrate) areas favored by heterotrophic bacteria for NO3 reduction.
So when stacking rock on a display with a sand bed(particularly a deep one) it makes sense ,in my opinion to solidly elevate the rock to the top of the sand with pvc, etc., being careful to keep the pvc or other substructure open enough(using pvc dirlled full of holes or sliced horizontally,eg)to avoid detritus traps and/or areas of stagnation.

 

[IronMan72]

JMO: I would avoid the use of eggcrate or PVC for supporting rock. Place rock directly on bottom glass (or starboard).

The cyano in this aquarium looks like a normal bloom cycle thing.

I was somewhat confident that this was a normal bloom but feel much more relieved after your comment, thanks. Just curious why you don't like to use PVC or eggcrate, is it related to the stagnant areas that will be created?

I prefer a bare bottom chateo refugium. I've used sand before and it got messy with algae exudate. Works for some but for me maintenance was an issue .

If you are placing live rock in a display with a sand bed, I would avoid burying it for 2 reasons:

1) The buried rock has organic material on it which will fuel bacteria in likely anoxic
(<0 ORP / 0 nitrate)areas around the buried rock. This can lead to the bacteria reducing SO4, sulfate , and the production of toxic hydrogen sulfide gas as a byproduct.

2)Sand under the rock will experience and upwelling of water and consequent downward flow . This occurs as a result of a change in water pressure as the flow of water hits the obstructing rock. This phenomenon is known as advection. It can help deliver CNP(organic carbon, nitrogen and phosphorous) and enough flow to maintain hypoxic (little to no free oxygen but plenty of nitrate) areas favored by heterotrophic bacteria for NO3 reduction.
So when stacking rock on a display with a sand bed(particularly a deep one) it makes sense ,in my opinion to solidly elevate the rock to the top of the sand with pvc, etc., being careful to keep the pvc or other substructure open enough(using pvc dirlled full of holes or sliced horizontally,eg)to avoid detritus traps and/or areas of stagnation.

Thank you for the detailed technical description to support your statements. I'm an electronics guy and am enjoying to learn a thing or two about a different scientific discipline. Drilling or slotting the pvc seems like it would be an improvement but wont the sand just fill into these areas through the holes? I really don't want to see the pvc so I'd like to just build the sand layer up to the bottom of the rock to avoid the floating rock look.

It sounds like you're on the right track. I started getting cyano when my current system was at about 5 months. If it gets really out of hand, shutting the lights off for 48 hours and covering the glass with news paper will kill all of it. It came back a couple of weeks later, but no where near as strong.

I've been running a refugium for a long time. The nutrient export is great, and the added benefit of the pod population has made keeping a mandarin very easy. I've run them with sand beds and without and I prefer them without sand beds. IME, the macro algae reduces flow enough that the sand bed just collected a bunch of detritus and added to nitrate levels over time.

I'll give you a handful of chaeto. Send me a PM when you're ready.

Thank you for your comments, it sounds like the sand can create a significant maintenance issue. I think I'll start without sand, it's easier to add it if later than to remove it. I'll definitely send you a PM regarding your kind offer of chaeto, thank you.

I have Chaetomorpha that needs cutting back and you're welcome to some if you're up for the trip. I'm in Chili. It's a thick, healthy green and growing like crazy.

Thank you so much for your offer. You are a bit further from me than I usually travel and cardiffgiant is much closer.

 

[tmz]

Thank you for the detailed technical description to support your statements. I'm an electronics guy and am enjoying to learn a thing or two about a different scientific discipline. Drilling or slotting the pvc seems like it would be an improvement but wont the sand just fill into these areas through the holes? I really don't want to see the pvc so I'd like to just build the sand layer up to the bottom of the rock to avoid the floating rock look

Yes sand will fill it but the slotting will allow water to flow through the sand.

Having said that a deep sand bed is by no means a necessity but if you go that way burying the rock is not a good idea.Bare bottom tanks or those with shallow beds would not really need any pvc or other supports.

 

[tmz]

As for cyanobacteria. It is everywhere , there is water, CO2 and light even polar bear coats. It uniquely fixes free nitrogen when it needs to and is a key component in the nitrogen cycle of life for living things on this planet; the true primordial slime. It psseses a unique enzyme, nitrogenase, which can break the strong bond in ubiquitous N2( nitrogen gas ) making it available as N for hookups with Hydrogen and entry into the food chain . Low PO4 and NO3 levels help control it but it can survive without them. Most have success in limiting it by limiting phosphate.

The situation in your tank appears to be normal and the steps you are taking are appropriate. Maybe it's feeding off newly establish bacterial activity, ie CO2 emitted by the bacteria, hard to say.

 

[IronMan72]

Thanks again Tom, and everyone else. It is great to know that there are so many experienced / knowledgeable reefers within a couple hundred miles willing to offer advice to a noob such as myself. I'm generally pretty patient but this was starting to make me a bit concerned..

 

[toddmh]

As for cyanobacteria. It is everywhere , there is water, CO2 and light even polar bear coats. It uniquely fixes free nitrogen when it needs to and is a key component in the nitrogen cycle of life for living things on this planet; the true primordial slime. It psseses a unique enzyme, nitrogenase, which can break the strong bond in ubiquitous N2( nitrogen gas ) making it available as N for hookups with Hydrogen and entry into the food chain . Low PO4 and NO3 levels help control it but it can survive without them. Most have success in limiting it by limiting phosphate.

The situation in your tank appears to be normal and the steps you are taking are appropriate. Maybe it's feeding off newly establish bacterial activity, ie CO2 emitted by the bacteria, hard to say.

sweeet I can grow primordial slime !!! Life on Mars is next,I'll be rich :fun5:
Do you guys think anyone has thought about this yet :mixed:

 

[tmz]

Probably, They do use pools of cyanobacteria to generate nutrients in rice fields.

Cyanobacteria is wonderful. Think about it grabbing nitrogen formed in the stars and incorporating it in the life cycle as organic nitrogen useable for proteins, dna, etc. Not to mention that it oxegenated the planet via photosynthesis that said it makes a mess in a reef tank.

 

[IronMan72]

Update

Update

I just want to thank everyone for their assistance and advice. I vacuumed the remainder of the cyano off of the sand about a week and a half ago during a water change. I placed the new rock in the tank and a huge bundle of Chaeto that Ben gave me into the sump before adding the new water. I was hoping that I would be able to slowly eliminate the cyano from my tank. Over the next couple of days I had a very small amount of cyano reappear for a day or two that I vacuumed up right away with airline tubing.

I am happy to report that for almost an entire week my tank has been cyano free. What an amazing turnaround. It looks much better as you can see in the after shot. Thanks to all for your support and advice.
:beer:

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

:celeb1:



all kidding aside I know the feeling. Congrats!

 

[tmz]

Good work.