Cyano - Really need some help/advice. Things are bad.

[jlmawp]

Please excuse the length of this. I just have some talking out to do and also some questions around cyano. Starting to lose it a bit.

So here is a quick compare shot of my tank about 2 months ago vs. now. The "after" picture was taken one week after scrubbing the glass squeaky-clean:

http://imgur.com/a/HTUpC

Levels as of 3 days ago:

Salinity: 1.025
Temp: 75-76
pH: 8.3
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
Phosphate: 0
Calcium: 440
KH: 10.3
Mg: 1290



So for a good 16 months, my 9-gal nano was happy, clean, and healthy. Never really had too many algae problems, aside from the occasional procrastination in cleaning or WCs. A couple months back, I began to notice the cyano creeping in, but it was so slow, I thought it was red coralline (which I have a decent amount of). Then, it start coming at me super hard. And it won't stop, no matter what I do.

I've tried significantly reduced lighting hours (down to 4hrs/day now), lowering the temperature of the tank, raising the pH and holding it at 8.3 to stunt growth, and it keeps growing. I even did a blackout couple of days, and it came roaring back. I clean the tank often every 4-6 weeks, and I really clean the thing. Rock comes out, scrub-down, siphon a ton of stuff out. I also do regular 2-gal WCs every other week, roughly 30%. I bought some more macro algae, and have let the calurpa go nuts to try and steal away some of the nutrients. Doesn't seem to have any effect. I tested the water as right after I mix it with Reef Crystals (RO/DI unit), and I see zeros across the board for organics, so I don't think it's my water source.

I've lost 2 snails, and my hammer, duncan, and acan are shriveled up and refuse to come out at all now (that could be because of the cleaner shrimp poking them, but he's been in there for at least 9 months), and my zoas are now starting to suffer as well. The torches seem to be as happy as ever, of course.

On my last trip to the LFS, I asked the guy if there was a safe chemical I could use for some help against it. He suggested I try Chemi-Clean. I've done a ton of reading and looked at a massive amount of reviews/posts about the stuff, and the opinions are mixed. People say it generally works well, but can kill things off if they are sensitive or if you even slightly overdose. They also say that it's likely a LARGE portion of the good bacteria population will be killed in the process, making it likely another nuisance will take the cyano's place. I like that bacteria and I hope that's not the case. My tank is finally mature and I want to keep the good guys!

Before I try the chemical stuff, my plan this week is to do a station-washing of my LR. Scrubbing off the cyano in one bowl of water, then rinsing it in another. Just get rid of as much as I physically can to give myself one last fighting chance to beat it with hard work, instead of resorting to partially poisoning my tank. I'll do a 2-gallon WC and syphon the substrate really well. I'm going to dose some Stability and make sure all my levels are ok after it clears up.

I guess my question is: Could I be doing more?

Additionally, does anyone have any experience with Chemi-Clean, and at what point should I consider trying it? Also, any general advice or help about this in general would be massively appreciated. I just want everything to be healthy again. Stuff dying sucks.

 

[Danny_15]

Thats pretty bad bro good luck

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[Diana A]

what did you use on the rocks when you scrubbed it?

 

[jlmawp]

what did you use on the rocks when you scrubbed it?

Just a cheap toothbrush, on the softer side. I haven't gone all-out on the LR brushing yet, but I have brushed off the smaller one and the easier-to-reach places of the larger ones.

 

[Gweeds]

Once you're done scrubbing the rocks, put them into a h2o2 bath. Take some tank water, add 20% of the volume as h2o2 at 6% strength and leave for an hour. All of the residual cyano will be killed off. Rinse in tank water and return the rock. You can spot treat any areas in the tank using 6% h2o2 in a syringe. Be careful if you have any lysmata shrimp... they don't like h2o2... if you do, try to remove them during treatment. H2o2 breaks down into h2o within 48 hours so wouldn't need to be out for long.

If you need proof... here's my before, during and after pics... same area of the tank. Cyano hasn't returned in 3 months now.

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[Crusinjimbo]

What test kits are you using to measure PO4. Cyano thrives on PO4 and until you can accurately measure and control PO4 you are only treating the visual effect (cyano) of the excess. Basically the cyano is sucking up the PO4. I instituted a Hanna LR to measure in PPB and finally starved it out. Chemical cleaners dis clean it up a but without much harm. I reduced PO4 via an algae turf scrubber. My opinion, good luck.

 

[Valentini89]

I would suggest the the chemiclean. I've used it twice now with no bad effects. It's pretty hard to stop cyano without either it or a full blackout which you can't do because you have corals.

 

[jayball]

I would suggest the the chemiclean. I've used it twice now with no bad effects. It's pretty hard to stop cyano without either it or a full blackout which you can't do because you have corals.

Nothing in that tank stopping him from doing a blackout. I have completely wrapped my tank for 4 days and a pair of low light days with no bad effects on coral. You should pause any CA/ALK dosing during this though.

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[Diana A]

Once you're done scrubbing the rocks, put them into a h2o2 bath. Take some tank water, add 20% of the volume as h2o2 at 6% strength and leave for an hour. All of the residual cyano will be killed off. Rinse in tank water and return the rock. You can spot treat any areas in the tank using 6% h2o2 in a syringe. Be careful if you have any lysmata shrimp... they don't like h2o2... if you do, try to remove them during treatment. H2o2 breaks down into h2o within 48 hours so wouldn't need to be out for long.

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If you soak the rocks in hydrogen peroxide (h2o2) you will kill the cyan along with beneficial bacteria which will cause a cycle. A spot cleaning with a toothbrush would be okay but not a large areas.

Siphon out as much as you can of the cyano. Use chemiclean and do a blackout. I asked what you used to clean your rocks with and the toothbrush is okay as long as your rinsed with salt water

 

[Gweeds]

If you soak the rocks in hydrogen peroxide (h2o2) you will kill the cyan along with beneficial bacteria which will cause a cycle. A spot cleaning with a toothbrush would be okay but not a large areas.

Siphon out as much as you can of the cyano. Use chemiclean and do a blackout. I asked what you used to clean your rocks with and the toothbrush is okay as long as your rinsed with salt water

Just scrubbing the rocks will not kill the cyano, it will just reduce the visible signs. The biofilm the cyano develops will still exist as you cannot remove it all manually, unless you're cleaning it off a smooth surface. The h2o2 will kill some of the beneficial bacteria, but not all by any stretch. Cyano only covers the surface as it is photosynthetic. Nitrifying bacteria will be deep into LR, as far as oxygenated water penetrates. The surface biofilm will be killed off, which is what we want as that includes the cyano, but in an hour with no water movement, h2o2 won't penetrate enough to kill all the nitrifying bacteria.

If scrubbing was 100% effective, then you would also be removing the surface layer of beneficial bacteria as it joins with the cyano to create the biofilm.

@humblefish has recently put up a thread where the ability of biofilms to endure attack (and degrade meds) is being discussed in some depth, should you want to know more.

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[ReeferNoob4ever]

I can tell you that I have used Red Slime Remover and it worked awesome. Many times when people claim bad results it's user error. READ THE DIRECTIONS CAREFULLY. I have only ever used it on a tank with a protein skimmer and the skimmer went crazy.

Another option might be an algae reactor, however, my understanding is that cyano is more a bacteria than anything else and something is out of balance in your system pertaining to that.

Cleaning things off alone is not likely to do much in the long run. One thing I recall that triggered my cyano outbreak was I hadn't cleaned the inside of my filters and pumps. Once I took them apart and thoroughly cleaned them, syphoned out most of the cyano, and hit it with Red Slime Remover I didn't have any more cyano for a long long time.

Good luck, don't give up!

 

[JMorris271]

Here's a shot of my issue 6 months ago. I used ChemCean which did not help much. Blackout, fishing out clumps with a net and better circulation did the trick for me. My tank is spotless now

 

[mav3rick478]

I would stop the taking out the rock and scrubbing everything every 4-6 weeks, you're creating an imbalance by doing that and that is what cyano loves. Essentially you're removing good bacteria and pods.

Were your rocks live rock or dried Reef rock? Dry rocks tend to leach phosphate for a long time and so your testing of the water would mean nothing because the excess isn't from your water but from your rocks.

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[hartin461]

Recent youtube video by Melevs reef about this subject. Check it out for good pointers

 

[jlmawp]

I would stop the taking out the rock and scrubbing everything every 4-6 weeks, you're creating an imbalance by doing that and that is what cyano loves. Essentially you're removing good bacteria and pods.

Were your rocks live rock or dried Reef rock? Dry rocks tend to leach phosphate for a long time and so your testing of the water would mean nothing because the excess isn't from your water but from your rocks.

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I bought it all wet and live. Some of it was extremely mature.

I'm not taking out all the LR and scrubbing every time. I just take out the small pieces to make it easier to siphon, and give them a gentle scrub while they are already out. This next time, though, I'm thinking I want to remove as much as possible if I plan on using chemiclean.

One thing I recall that triggered my cyano outbreak was I hadn't cleaned the inside of my filters and pumps. Once I took them apart and thoroughly cleaned them, syphoned out most of the cyano, and hit it with Red Slime Remover I didn't have any more cyano for a long long time.

I actually did this with the little powerhead I have in there. Run it in some vinegar for an hour or so to get all the crap out of it. I don't think I did that with my other pump/filter, so that is another good place to hit for sure.

Siphon out as much as you can of the cyano. Use chemiclean and do a blackout.

I think this is the route I'm going to go. Eliminate as much as I can physically, then hope that the Chemi-Clean stuff does it's magic on what is left.

Thank you all so much for your suggestions and advice. It's nice to know that others came out of this on the other side perfectly okay, but it's going to take some work for sure.

 

[Kremis]

chemiclean has worked multiple times on getting rid of cyano outbreaks that occasionally happen. no bad side affects, just turn off your skimmer or it will overflow

 

[Mishri]

i agree, stop removing your rocks. stop scrubbing rocks. increased flow and red slime remover will take care of it. try not to mess with the tank too much, I think you are creating the perfect arena for cyano to build up by scrubbing things and trying to do too much. they like a clean, unoccupied space to build up on. (yes, they will grow over somethings, but in my experience, many things will just just tear through it)

Siphoning should remove most of it, use a smaller diamter hose for stuck on bits, like a little 1/2" or 3/4" tubing. the big nozzle at the end of gravel vacuums doesn't give good suction... (just be careful as the suction can pull stuff you want out too)

 

[Rtdrumz]

I second the flow suggestion. I had a outbreak a month ago. I put powerheads right on on it for a week. It completely disappeared in about 3-4 days but I wanted to make sure it was gone.

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[karimwassef]

Chemiclean +1

 

[jlmawp]

Quick update, for those interested.

So I went ahead and bought/dosed the Chemi-Clean the other day, and this morning before going to work, I noticed that the red of the cyano had significantly faded. The stuff on the glass since my light tank cleaning a week ago has gone colorless, and the film covering all my zoas and other softies is starting to fall off. I blew them off with a turkey baster and they are seeming to clean up decently.

I'll be doing the necessary water change tonight, and running all water tests to see where I'm at, and dose accordingly.

Seems things are up from rock-bottom now, at least! Ready to start the rebuilding and comeback process now. I've lost a lot of little guys: 6 small nassarius snails, an astrea, my conch, and a cyrinth snail. I've also lost a good dozen collinistas, but I have a crazy high population of them, so they'll bounce back. The softies and LPSs are in a bad way, so hopefully they start coming back as things stay clean and water is ideal. I'll be getting married and going on my honeymoon for a couple weeks, so on my return, I'm hoping things are better.

I'm starting to see some green film algae popping up here and there already, which is encouraging. It was unable to grow with the cyano. The snails can eat safely again. I see a ton of pods still as well, which I was worried I would lose in this whole mess.

Thanks for the advice, everyone, and for vetting Chemi-Clean for me. Ended up working out really well. I have a nice big bottle for the future, but hopefully it won't be needed.

Thanks again!