Cycling without testing?
- Thread starter charnkiat
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no you would need to add matured extra media, which was cycled in a remote area and add to the display tanks fitration when fully matured, then just add into the system before adding the 10" fish, a wet dry or a sock full of crushed coral or 2 or aragonite would be adequate, eventually the live rock in the system would mature enough and catch up to enable the bacteria on and in it to cope with the extra waste, however this has nothing to do with testing media during the cycling period. nothing at all.
wooden_reefer
New member
Let's see.
How small are the fish you plan to add? How fast can you add them?
Say your small fish average the same size as the two original three-inch fish already in the tank
If you add just one more three-inch fish, your bioload is going from 2 to 3. Would there be re-cycling going from just 2 to 3? What do you think? I think yes, may be somewhat bearable re-cycling but still yes. How frequently can you add a three-inch fish? Every month?
How many three inch fish do you need to add?
How much does a 10-inch fish weigh vs a three-inch fish? About 3.33 raised to power of 3. which is about 37. So, a ten inch fish weighs over 36 times more than a three-inch fish of the same shape.
After you have added 37 3-inch fish, you then add the ten inch fish. So, you are going from 37 to 74 units of bioload. Would not going from 37 to 74 still cause re-cycling? Yes, still.
Can you really do so?
No, not practical.
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wooden_reefer
New member
I will, and thank you very much.
If he has five ten-inch fish, and I have the swimming room for them all, I will not hesistate to get ALL five ten-inch fish at once with only three weeks of advance preparation.
Close to this just happened to me two weeks ago.
wooden_reefer
New member
Yes, not very hard at all. You are getting it.
How would you create the mature medium? This has to do with the two nitrite tests, and the dead chopped up or emusified shrimps.
wooden_reefer
New member
It is not unusual to have to add a 5 inch fish into a tank with two small fish and the cycle occured six months ago.
Happens often.
Less extreme consideration but quite realistic.
Happens often.
Less extreme consideration but quite realistic.
you will never get me to agree with the 2 nitrite tests, im dedicated to teaching newcommers about ammonia risks and testing for it :lol:
wooden_reefer
New member
Yes, may be some newbies need to see blood first to appreciate horrow.
Some need only to be told of blood and can visualize.
Actually, I do test for ammonia as maintenance in reef DT, but not during cycling. In cycling, the ammonia is or has been there because I have added it. The act of adding beats testing anytime.
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sowellj
New member
i find it remarkable that any reefer with experience would even consider not informing newcommers of ammonia risks, personally imo an ammonia test kit is essential for anyone with limited or no experience in todays home marine aquarium, the fish and corals we own deserve a decent water quality, guessing when the media is cycled is just irresponsible, although your method of the 2 nitrite tests of course seems sensible to me and others, a complete novice just wouldnt get it, surely testing for an ammonia spike is the way to go, the op here needs to understand that, i dont buy your theory that newbies read books and should know, reef central wouldnt exist if every newcommer read books.
wooden_reefer
New member
I am not talking about precision. The assumption is that all fish have the same shape. Not eels vs bat fish.
The math is simple.
A fish that doubles the length gains eight times the weight, if it maintains all 3D proportions.
So a ten-inch fish has about 36 times the weight of a three inch fish of the same shape.
So adding a ten-inch fish into a tank with 36 3-inch fish of the same shape is doubling the bioload.
wooden_reefer
New member
Please, have some commonsense.
Not testing for ammonia during cycling is not the same as not highlighting the toxicity of ammonia to newbies.
The very fact that you are cycling robustly to prevent ammonia, any ammonia for any period, does highlight to the newbie the toxicity of ammonia.
In fact, the acceptance of gradualism in stocking is to downplay the toxicity of ammonia, as some do. The implication is that mild levels of ammonia will solve the ammonia problem if you just do things slowly.
id like to think i have common sense wooden, testing for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate is part of the cycle in my opinion, the average rookie who cycles media in his display tank needs to know when its safe to add livestock due to the bacteria being able to cope with waste, sure we can just suggest 6 weeks and its done, but how do they know its even started? only testing can avoid the uncertainty, and its good practise for the future of the reef.
wooden_reefer
New member
The way to know if a cycle has started is by testing for the presence of significant nitrite.
The way to know if a cycle will finish is by testing for the decline of nitrite.
The way to know if there will be enough bacteria is by knowing that there has been enough ammonia during the cycle.
Any newbie who has read about nitrification and know only the science of nitrification should understand.
Should a newbie fear that the nitrification bacteria will die or fail to reproduce in a DT routinely? No.
Does everyone here has to have seen electricution to avoid it?
wooden_reefer
New member
Actually, even historically, ammonia is not tested during a cycle.
The chemical species to test for has always been just nitrite.
The recommendation was to test for nitrite often, get a peak and a decline to zero.
The magitude of the nitrite peak has always been the indication of how robust a cycle is.
However, just a little new is that if you are adding ammonia and you know how much you have added, you do not need to ID the nitrite peak and know the magnitude of nitrite peak. The knowledge of enough ammonia during a cycle is a very valid substitue for the nitrite peak. Only this is new or newer to some.
The word "cycle" refered to the up and down of nitrite levels; it is not related to the word "cycle" in "the nitrogen cycle".
The chemical species to test for has always been just nitrite.
The recommendation was to test for nitrite often, get a peak and a decline to zero.
The magitude of the nitrite peak has always been the indication of how robust a cycle is.
However, just a little new is that if you are adding ammonia and you know how much you have added, you do not need to ID the nitrite peak and know the magnitude of nitrite peak. The knowledge of enough ammonia during a cycle is a very valid substitue for the nitrite peak. Only this is new or newer to some.
The word "cycle" refered to the up and down of nitrite levels; it is not related to the word "cycle" in "the nitrogen cycle".
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