CyclistMT's 300 Gal Plywood and Glass Build
- Thread starter CyclistMT
- Start date
JaysLittleOcean
Active member
Awesome thread. I was not even thinking about a plywood aquarium because I have only seen them with a single pain of glass. But now that I see your build my imagination is running wild with ideas of a really large aquarium.
CyclistMT
More Idiot Than Savant
Haven't been on here much lately so sorry the reply is a few days late.
Good luck!
As for everyone else that might be wondering how the tank is doing, well, let's just say for now it's not in a very good state. Physically it's fine (still holding water as expected) but the inhabitants have taken quite a hit. I fear it's a tale that would put even Lemony Snicket to shame and I'm not quite ready to tell it yet. Heading on vacation next week and perhaps after I'm back I'll feel up to telling it.
Welcome!
Why yes, yes I can! It was right around $1200 give or take a few sawbucks or so. A good bulk of that was glass at $577 and remember I have three panels. So if you plan on doing only one viewing panel you can cut that glass cost by 2/3. Of course those prices are 4 years old now and might be slightly different in your neck of the woods.
If you really want to bake your noodle, think about this. You don't even have to cut the opening square. You can do them oval or round shaped or whatever your imagination can come up with.
Good luck!
As for everyone else that might be wondering how the tank is doing, well, let's just say for now it's not in a very good state. Physically it's fine (still holding water as expected) but the inhabitants have taken quite a hit. I fear it's a tale that would put even Lemony Snicket to shame and I'm not quite ready to tell it yet. Heading on vacation next week and perhaps after I'm back I'll feel up to telling it.
krshlln300
New member
Do you know if the epoxy or something is leaching into your setup or if it is a different external contaminant causing harm to your inhabitants?
muttley000
MTS Sufferer!
I am using the exact same epoxy and am not having any leaching issues. I doubt that is what Lance is reffering to.
CyclistMT
More Idiot Than Savant
Thanks for helping me out Matt! Especially since it seems I can't be bothered to respond to my own thread.
Honestly, I've been kinda bummed out about the tank and didn't really want to talk about it. The tank seems to be on the mend and with fall approaching things will slow down and I'll have some more time to regail you all with the sordid details.
Matt is right, it has nothing to do with the epoxy as once cured it is completely inert. Suffice it to say that I'm feeling a bit like Icarus. Because of pride and hubris I found myself flying too close to the sun.
And with that, you'll just have to wait until I'm ready to spit it out.
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fjr_wertheimber
Combat-tested Reefer
Yeah, man, fill us in! We're all dying to know what's going on!
karimwassef
Active member
We need to know the bad as well as the good - learn from each other's experiments and failures.
Grit and experience keeps a veteran going when most would turn back.
Love this tank. Want to see more of it.
Grit and experience keeps a veteran going when most would turn back.
Love this tank. Want to see more of it.
muttley000
MTS Sufferer!
Looking forward to the updates and lessons learned. I have plans to start building the tank to match my sump this spring
CyclistMT
More Idiot Than Savant
Awww and I was looking forward to a story.
I know I set it up but you guys are making me want to break out the old school Whitesnake.
<iframe width="848" height="477" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/P5MWU0qqhTU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
TLDNR "“ Tank in tailspin, suspect....oh who am I kidding. I took the time to write this all down. If you really care, you can take the time to read it!
But without further preamble, here is the result of whatever issue it was I encountered.
Almost all SPS "“ DEAD
Many LPS "“ DEAD
All Softies and Rock Anemones "“ OK
Fish "“ FINE
So it was around mid May, the tank was just cruising along (or so I thought) when I decided to add some more frags. Within just a few days things started to take a turn for the worse. I didn't (and still don't) blame the frags for bringing something in because if I'm totally honest with myself, I seem to remember saying, "œHmm, something seems a bit off, must be time for a water change" before I even put the frags in. So I did said water change before I got the frags and thought everything was fine. As soon as things really started to decline I jumped into reaction mode and tried to find the cause. After initial diagnosis and more water changes (didn't seem to be stopping the decline) I started review all the changes I had made to the tank over the past months.
In no particular order these are all the immediate issues I found and things I think may have contributed to the issue. I don't believe there was any one thing that triggered it (although I'm sure many of you will think otherwise when you review the list but I'll explain in detail later) but rather that it was a combination of these factors that tipped the balance of the tank. Throughout this list there is one constant that can't be ignored and most certainly played a role. Me.
Found a penny in a filter sock in the tank.
dKh @ 7
Potassium Nitrate Dosing
Inexpensive Halide Bulbs
Actinic LED strip driver failure
Auto top off issue
Hose blew off return pump
Carbon dosing ceased
High temperature
Cheap RO/DI Filters
Spring runoff in the rivers
Let's tackle these in what I think is the order of the build up to catastrophe.
Inexpensive Halide Bulbs (Feb-Aug)
I could never grow to like the look of Radium bulbs so I was on a quest to find something that more closely matched the look of the Iwasaki 175w 15K that I was so fond of but that was of a higher wattage. I didn't want to have to buy a bunch of expensive halide bulbs to experiment with so as I was doing a ton of research I happened across this thread discussing 15K and 20K halide bulbs for $20 or less.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1703568&highlight=ebay+mh
After reading the whole thread and seeing both positive and negative reviews I forged ahead and bought some 250w and 400w 15K Plusrite bulbs in February of this year. This was likely the start of the Icarus Project, as I'm now going to call it, because after all, I'm an experienced and gifted aquarist so clearly I can experiment with my tank in anyway I want with out consequence (pride and hubris obviously so please read this last bit with extreme sarcasm). All the inhabitants seemed fine with the new bulbs even if they were a bit yellow (I had been swapping out 250w with 400w to see which was better). I really thought I was onto something here, MH bulb replacements for under $50 a year? Hell yeah! Oh, did I forget to mention that one of these bulbs was DOA and had to be replaced? Yeah, I couldn't see the warning signs because of the two blinders I had on (pride and hubris). I was still looking for something more blue so off to the cheap MH online store I went (pride and hubris) and got me some 400w 20K bulbs. These were installed in April. See where I'm going with this? 3 different types of MH bulbs in the span of 2 months (6 bulbs total) I'm now approaching the cost of 2 higher quality MH bulbs. Honestly, I don't think these bulbs were the root cause or even a large contributing factor to my issue but since I don't have a PAR meter yet I can't rule them out as a potential under performing component in the system that had an adverse affect on the animals.
dKh 7 and below (March - June)
So my corals were doing Ok but I felt they could be colored up better and weren't really growing as fast as I thought they should. I happened across one particular thread the secret to colorful, healthy corals....obvious to some, elusive to many that basically stated you should keep alkalinity at natural sea water levels of 7-8 for best color. Other carbon dosing threads seemed to share the sentiment that alkalinity should be kept lower when carbon dosing. Now, I grew up in the Berlin Method and the likes of Albert Thiel telling us alkalinity level in the reef aquarium should be 12 dKh or even higher. And although I've never kept my reefs that high (I usually kept in the 9-10 range), 7-8 seemed a bit low. But I figured if that's they way it is in nature, then it's probably better. I hadn't checked my levels since December so when I found them at 7 I thought, ok, good to go there and on to the next thing to try. While there might be something to this natural alkalinity level, based on my recent experience I'm going to keep my tank higher than that from now on. Maybe having it higher is just a nice safety buffer. Oh, and I started getting a bit interested in Redfield Ratio about this time too but more on that later.
Cheap RO/DI Filters (Changed in April)
Remember how I've told you I'm a cheap bast....thrifty, I'm thrifty. Well, sometimes my hankering for a good deal gets the better of me. I was in need of new sediment filters, carbon blocks, and DI resin. I've always gotten these from AWI or Bulk Reef Supply with good results but somehow I got laser focused into finding cheaper alternatives by sourcing the various pieces separately. While neither of those vendors RO/DI filter kits are terribly expensive, they hit you with high shipping if that's all you have to buy. That's what kind of ticks me off and since I have Amazon Prime, why not take advantage of that free two day shipping? Penny wise pound foolish indeed. I don't think the cheap filters were really a major cause of this issue but they are certainly a problem for ongoing maintenance, at least in the case of the DI. My water isn't too bad out of the tap so I can usually get a full year out of carbon blocks and DI. Well, I don't know when this DI was fully saturated but now that I'm six months into these filters I'm getting about 25 TDS after the DI. Yeah, not cool. Not terrible but not cool and not sure how long it's been this way.
Ok, so let's recap before we roll into May since that's when things really started to spiral down. I've changed the MH bulbs 4 times in 2 months, found alkalinity on the low side of normal, and put in new RO/DI filters. Now, the snow pack is melting.
Spring Run Off (Mayish - June)
Ok, I'll admit this might be a bit of a stretch but anecdotally it seems like I have witnessed algae blooms or declines in my tanks over the years every spring. Now it is quite possible that this is a result of me getting outside more and paying less attention to the tank but it seems like no matter what, I'm always fighting SOMETHING in my tank in the spring. Billings gets it's municipal water supply from the Yellowstone river (yes, that Yellowstone, there are perks to living in MT). However the Yellowstone in Billings is a couple hundred miles and probably a couple hundred farms from Yellowstone park. Needless to say there is a lot of stuff the river picks up between the park and here, especially during runoff. So even though the TDS might be showing zero after the DI during spring, I've always wondered if SOMETHING was getting through that was a nutrient source. <Read in best Forest Gump voice> And that's all I have to say about that.
Potassium Nitrate Dosing (Early May)
So, remember I said I started getting interested in the Redfield Ratio? Yeah, well, I've never been able to measure any detectable nitrates in my tank. I figured this was due to how awesome a job my plenum was doing at processing nitrates. After some more reading about carbon dosing and possible limitations to the process if the Redfield ratio is out of whack, I commenced nitrate dosing in the form of tree stump remover. At this point I'm sure some of you are thinking, "œWhat the hell are you doing putting tree stump remover in your reef tank?, Got a mangrove you're trying to get rid of?" Let me reassure you that the tree stump remover I speak of is just Potassium Nitrate. Ideal uses "“ removal of tree stumps (DUH!) and raising nitrate in aquariums. You can by fancy Potassium Nitrate fertilizer for your planted tank or tree stump remover from Lowes. Same stuff. Anyway, started dosing this in early May to see if that could "œfix" my ratio and kick my nutrient export into high gear in the hopes of reducing nutrients further to take care of the last bit of lingering algae, increase growth of corals, and improve color. If you're interested, here are some of the threads that led me to this decision.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2470497
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2487163
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2303916
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2210947
Found Penny in Filter Sock
The title says it all. The penny had to be in the washing machine when I put my filter socks in to clean them. <again, best Forest Gump voice> Stupid is as stupid does. I know most of you are thinking, "œWell, there it is, the smoking gun." This is proof that Oliver North really could recall details related to illegal arms trafficking with Contra rebels, that Monica really thought it was a good career move to, um, dally with the President, that Saddam really did have WMDs, and that this is why Lance's reef tank took a crapper.
I would be hard pressed to argue with that but I'm going to anyway.
While there is no doubt this was a major contributing factor, I don't believe it was a lingering issue as I wouldn't still have a reef it it was. I don't know why that is, maybe I found it early enough, maybe bio-films developed quickly enough around the penny that dissolution was slowed, maybe all the calcium substrate in my tank sequestered it away and now it's bound up there, maybe there wasn't enough copper in the covering of a zinc penny to do any lasting damage. Whatever the case is, I know this, my softies did not react hardly at all. I would have thought they would have been the most affected but I didn't lose a one and they're actually thriving more than ever right now. And the death of many of the SPS and LPS was a slow affair. In some cases with the SPS, algae got a foothold on the bare spots before the entire coral was dead. So penny removed, water changes done, and we move on. But not forward yet. May 29th
My notes read, "œCorals in decline, especially acros. Suspect alkalinity issue or possible copper dose. Maybe both?" At this point I really hadn't started to consider all the other variables I've listed already. Frankly, I was depressed about the tank as I'd lost a few things already and it was clear I was going to lose more before this was over. Although I didn't think about it in these terms at the time, I was basically waiting for this forest fire to do what damage it was going to and see what grew in the aftermath. I'll admit, there were a couple fleeting thoughts about converting it to a biotope discus tank. I was pretty much indifferent to the tank at this point.
June
I finally took the Potassium Nitrate offline on 6/3. It didn't seem to be raising my Nitrates and at this point if is started, it was probably going to do more harm then good. May explore this again in the future. I started using a new salt (Kent) on 6/7 but this would not be the turning point yet. In fact, there was more disaster in store for me. At some point over the next few weeks I had three separate events that certainly contributed to the lingering demise. I do think if these things wouldn't have happened I might have been able to save more corals but these events just kept restressing the environment, kept restrssing me, and made me seriously think, maybe it would just be easier to not have a tank at all. Of course, that would be significantly easier on my life but I guess I just wasn't ready to give up yet.
Anyway, disaster number one. Auto Manual top off fail. I was still trying to dial in my top off dosing now that I had converted it to a real dosing pump and summer had hit. I had more water evaporating than topping off. Since the tank was sucking air one night I took it off the doser and hooked up the top off bucket to an Aqualifter not connected to a float switch or timer. Yeah you probably know where I'm going with this. I forgot about it and ended up with more freshwater top off than I intended. Water in the stand in on the floor were the least of my worries. Specific Gravity was down to 1.019 from 1.024. In less than 24 hours. Because it was a slowish reduction and not all at once, under normal circumstances I think my tank would have weathered this event but given the current state it was just one more kick in the teeth.
Disaster number two. Temp at 84 degrees and possibly higher as some points in the day. I didn't realize how much my humidity venting solution was also a part of temperature regulation of my tank. I had turned my humidistat up to about 45 percent which caused the vent fan to run less. With the AC on now I thought I could run that fan less. Turns out, the sweet spot for my tank to balance humidity extraction with temp regulation is around 35-40 percent humidity where the humidistat is located. When I keep it there I can keep the tank under 80 degrees. The temp wasn't too high for long but once again, another kick to the teeth.
The third disaster was not much of a disaster for the tank but more of a swift kick to the groin for me while I was still down. I came home from work one night to half of the tank dark. I have my lighting and water flow split between two dedicated circuits so that if one GFCI trips or equipment fails, l still have the other circuit available (assuming it's not been tripped as well). So anyway half the tank is dark and the pump is making an awful sucking sound. Open the cabinet to find the clear hose on the pump has come off and the pump has been spewing water all over the inside of stand which had hit some electrical, tripping the GFCI (yes, I'm thankful it tripped for sure). But yup, you guessed it, water all over the floor again. The real rub? I had just put the Shop Vac away up in the garage from the last water disaster. The really crappy rub? This was totally preventable and totally my fault. The zip ties I used to secure the hose were bound to fail. I kept telling myself, you gotta get those titanium hose clamps or you're going to regret it. And regret it I have. Using a standard steel hose clamp now so really have to get those titanium ones soon.
Also somewhere in here my vinegar jug ran empty and I never replaced it. Probably contributed to a spike in nutrients and algae but also probably for the best to just get the tank reset to a "œdefault" state.
Oh, almost forgot Actinic LED Strip Failure.
Yes, one of my LED strips drivers failed. This really didn't have any bearing on the tank health itself but was just one more thing to pi** me off. Of course I can't find this kind of thing anywhere (strip was probably sourced from China in a batch and when they all ran out, that's it). So I began the hunt for a replacement that will ultimately end up in a change to the lighting system for the tank. See below.
July, August, September
By now it's late July and time for vacation. I would be away from the tank for a week and while we had someone staying at the house, they really didn't know anything about aquariums. I just had to hope everything would be fine and a part of me didn't really care if it wasn't. I was prepared that if I came home to another disaster, that would be it. I'd be done with the tank. Fortunately, everything was fine and I came home to a tank that now had some algae problems but otherwise looked in OK shape. And dare I hope, on the mend?
Over the next couple of months I would just go through the motions. Feed the fish, do a water change, check parameters, especially dKh (I am actively trying to raise this through baked baking soda) but no new coral additions. I did get a couple new fish from the LFS, a Tomini tang and a Blond Naso to replace the one I lost before. AND, are you ready for this? A new female trigger! She had been at the LFS for a couple of months so was eating really well. I was a bit worried about putting her in the tank with the established male and while there was some initial scrapping (she did get a bit beat up), he eventually decided to tolerate her (and boy did he color right up once I put her in there). I wouldn't say they're soul mates as they don't really seem to hang around together but maybe that will come. Unfortunately during this time I did lose my smallest Swallowtail Angel female. She was always bulled by the bigger one and neither seemed to want to change sex. I think I'll try to add two more females in to spread out the aggression and maybe that will kick of the sex change in the big one.
October and Beyond
Well, now it's October so what have I done and were do we go from here? Essentially back to basics for most things and a addition of a couple new things. Not necessarily in the order of the trials above, here's what I have done/will do.
Change RO/DI Filters With a Quality Product
Just got in new filters from Air/Water/Ice and will replace this weekend.
Get Parameters Back In Order Before Adding Variables Back In
The opportunity for me here is to get dKh back up to 9-10 and phosphate down as far as I can before firing vinegar and nitrate dosing back up. I know those items can actually help with phosphate but I need to see if I can export more through other means first. I have my ATS back online but really need more light to make it more effective. Been thinking about adding chaeto for export. I would like to try sea grasses again but that will be down the road. May add GFO again too. Wanted to avoid it because of the cost but we'll see.
New Lights
In my hunt for a replacement LED strip light I found some Chinese black box LED threads and subsequent Ebay listing. Here's the one that started it all for me.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2474870
After reading countless posts I decided to take the plunge. A whole LED fixture for the cost of a MH bulb? What's not to love? I could get two of these for the cost of replacing my strip light and will get more coverage to boot. Since two were replacing one strip and would make my tank unbalanced, in grand American fashion, I got four. I always wanted to fill in my sides better anyway. These seem to be working very well and with the adjustable channels I can get more blue but still keep enough white in to satisfy my eyes. LEDs have finally arrived for me. I'm sure many of you are thinking, what took you so long? Well, you may remember that when I started this tank, LEDs were mondo expensive and all you could really find were blue and cool white. RGB was only just starting to come into fashion but it was clear the blue/cool white weren't really cutting it. So anyway, since I'm in need of MH bulb replacement again, I will be changing them out with two more black box LEDs. Better coverage, better color, and more adjustability. I may actually be able to run my vent fan less because I'm going to need to keep more heat in without the MH.
Flow
My pumps are aging and I don't have as much flow in my tank as when it was new. Also additions of live rock and coral growth has slowed things down too. I knew this was coming and had planned to get a couple more Jeabos to fill in but then the Gyre started to show up. I've been waiting for the first gen kinks to be worked out and I think I may end up with a couple Gyre to supplement what I already have. Also, hoping Jeabo might come out with a knock off and that looks like it's going to be happening soon.
General Once Over On Everything Attached to the Tank
I need to go through every piece of equipment, fitting, clamp, etc. and make sure everything is still performing and replace what isn't. Probably something I should be doing at least once a year, a full inspection of every aspect of the system.
Oh, And By The Way, Always Check Filter Socks For Foreign Objects When They Come Out of the Wash
I know, seems like a "œno duh" moment. But doing this never occurred to me until it became a problem. I guarantee this will be a habit going forward.
And what, dear readers, can you take away from all this?
That there is nothing more humbling than a reef tank. I simply flew too close to the sun. I thought my skills as a reef keeper would warn me of impending doom before it was too late and that I could do nearly whatever I wanted to the tank without consequence because I'm "œexperienced". I stopped expecting the unexpected and in the process got my wings singed.
But most of all, if there is any wisdom to be had here it's this, keep a detailed log and when things go wrong, don't assume it's the first thing you find out of whack that is the culprit. By having a log you can evaluate everything that's happened to the tank in the last 3-6 months to determine what changes should be made to bring things back in balance.
If you've hung in here this long than thanks for taking the journey with me and here is your reward, pictures of the tank in it's current state. If you skipped right to the pictures, you know who you are, then I assign you ten interweb demerits. If you go back an read this entire post, five demerits will be rescinded.
And since this is somewhat of an epic post it just feels right to end it with some sort of quotable but meaningless credo so here you go.
Good luck, good fortune, and Godspeed!
Current tunes - Whitesnake: Spit It Out "Duh!"
karimwassef
Active member
Wow... Rough year.
I've had a doozy too but I'm only losing montis，not all SPS.
Good luck with the recovery.
I've had a doozy too but I'm only losing montis，not all SPS.
Good luck with the recovery.
karimwassef
Active member
Well... I don't think the cheap MH or RODI are the root cause. I use both from Amazon and it hasn't hurt me (you're thinking "YET!!").
I got a cheap TDS in/out and a pressure gauge. This way I check my RODI regularly.
As far as the bulbs, I'd say rapid change is the issue, not the bulb costs. A PAR meter would go a long way to being able to make better low cost decisions.
As predicted, everyone will have opinions - water chemistry is actually my bet. Between copper, nitrates, carbon and fluctuating Alkalinity (especially), this is what kills SPS.
The only reason I'm looking to build an automated Alk tester is because I believe it to be the holy grail in SPS resiliency. Not 7 or 9 or 11, but any stable consistent Alk over 7...
In cases of wonky chemistry, I would try to force it with water changes. BUT I'd check each batch for Alk to avoid sudden changes there too.
Sorry- couldn't resist.
I got a cheap TDS in/out and a pressure gauge. This way I check my RODI regularly.
As far as the bulbs, I'd say rapid change is the issue, not the bulb costs. A PAR meter would go a long way to being able to make better low cost decisions.
As predicted, everyone will have opinions - water chemistry is actually my bet. Between copper, nitrates, carbon and fluctuating Alkalinity (especially), this is what kills SPS.
The only reason I'm looking to build an automated Alk tester is because I believe it to be the holy grail in SPS resiliency. Not 7 or 9 or 11, but any stable consistent Alk over 7...
In cases of wonky chemistry, I would try to force it with water changes. BUT I'd check each batch for Alk to avoid sudden changes there too.
Sorry- couldn't resist.
mkindsfather
New member
Nice build!
