Dead Christmas gift!

[CTrout]

I got a mandarin for Christmas and 28 hours later it was dead. This is the third fish I have put in my reef since I set it up and nothing has lived yet! I'm thinking of tossing all the LR in the trash and going back to discus and rams exclusively. At least I don't kill them. In fact the rams even spawn for me. My tank parameters test perfectly. PH-8.3 temp.-79*F ammonia-0 nitrite-0 nitrate-undetectable salinity-32 alkalinity-4.0 meq/l calcium-405 mg/l. I set this tank up in August and raised brine shrimp in it until Oct. when I put the live rock and base rock in it. I'm using IO salt and distilled water. My peppermint shrimp has been fine for the 3 weeks I've had him. The turbos are fine as well. The zooanthids on my rock are growing and spreading as well as the coraline. I had a coral beauty for about 10 days, then he died of what looked like ich. I got a royal gramma about a week later and he made it 3 days before dying with similar symptoms. Two weeks later I get this mandarin and he looks great at the lfs. Get him into my tank and he hides for the first 18 hours then I see him out and he has a faded looking spot on his back encompassing his dorsal fin. The fading spread over the next couple hours until he died. Upon closer exam, I find the fading is his outermost layer of skin was sloughing off! Maybe this was a freak heater burn and my tank isn't really a death trap? I am very discouraged and depressed about this. Can anyone cheer me up?

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IXOYE

 

[Kirbster]

1. Coral Beauties are very ich prone fish. It is highly recommended that you quarantine them before putting them in the tank. But let's say you put him in and he gets ich and dies...then...

2. One week is not nearly long enough to eradicate a tank of parasite cysts. I would recommend at least four weeks. Others will have other recommendations. So the Gramma probably suffered from the same infestation the Coral Beauty had. Then....

3. Again, two weeks wasn't really a long enough down time, but in addition to that Mandarins are notoriously in bad condition when you get them from an LFS. They are quite often in the latter stages of starvation and often beyond recovery. He probably had a very weak immunity and suffered the same fate as the others.

So... Consider a quarantine tank. It saves a lot of headaches. Wait for several weeks before trying another fish. And stay away from delicate or disease prone fish.

It takes time and patience, but it's worth it in the end.

KA

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"You must unlearn what you have learned."
-Yoda

 

[goby boy]

come on and cheer up!!!!!

there are so many outcomes to your fishies' death......like you said..it might be ich( or some other parasites or bacteria)....

is your live rock cured???? what do you have it in there now???? any corals??? what's your system and equipments and lighting??? tell us more about your tank and did you "cycle" your tank before you start introduced fish in???

 

[Eroc in Fgo]

Agree with advice given. I would also be interested in your acclimation proceedures.

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Eric
http://customer.wcta.net/emcreef

 

[CTrout]

Acclimation: Check ph and salinity of lfs water. If they're the same as my tank, I just float the bag to equalize temp. If different, I add small amounts of my water to the bag over about 45 minutes until I release the fish into my tank. Tank is cycled, lr is cured, URI Aquasun and actinic 03 VHO nearly 8 wpg, protein skimmer, no corals yet, just 3 turbos, 1 peppermint shrimp, a small patch of zooanthids, and numerous tiny feather worms. Oh, and millions of pods on the glass to block my view of the tank.

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IXOYE

[This message has been edited by CTrout (edited 12-26-1999).]

 

[bill-e]

CTrout,

I believe that your acclimation procedure leaves a lot to be desired. I believe that you should drip acclimate your fish and corals. Take a piece of airline tubing and either put a plastic air valve on the end or tie the in a knot and allow your tank water to drip into the bag. I drip mine slow enough so that I double the volume of water in the bag in about 20-30 minutes, then I dump half of the water out and do it again. If it's a Echinoderm (starfish or the like), I repeat the process one more time, if not, then after two cycles I remove the fish or coral from the bag and put it in my tank.

I dont use a Q-Tank, there are pros and cons to using it.

Lastly, make sure you buy a healthy specimen. Put the fish on hold in the LFS and watch it for a week if it's a new arrival. Watch it eat and how it reacts with others. If you like clowns, try a pair (or just one) of them as they are very hardy and you can usually find tank raised ones.


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Bill Esposito
http//cereal.mv.com/reef
The box said "Use Win 95 or better", I chose better so I run OS/2!

 

[Doug1]

I use one of the large catch cups that hang on the tank, like when they catch at LFS, only mine is inside sump. Put bag in container and add tank water to the cup for temp equaliztion, drip tank water like Bill said and use a baster to remove water from the bag till you have mostly tank water in bag. this takes about an hour for fish/coral 2 hr for snails and 4 hrs for echinoderms like sea stars etc, maybe over kill but works for me

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I reefed,so I spent,it would have been cheaper to do it right the first time.........Doug@thereeftank
moderator

 

[Eroc in Fgo]

I suspected that your acclimation proceedure was inadequate. As far as the pro's and con's in this hobby... yes, that is true to a certain extent. However, what would be the con of drip acclimating your fish? The only one I can think of is the additional time. Frankly, that isn't good enough.

IMO, you have nothing to lose by trying this proven method of acclimation. You certainly aren't going to do any worse. Almost of my fish were obtained via mail order and I have had only minor problems. If you don't think you LFS is providing high quality livestock it is time to try another supplier. Yes... you may pay alot for M.O. fish, but do you want to keep restocking your tank?


Just my thoughts

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Eric
http://customer.wcta.net/emcreef

 

[Joez]

Hi,

Cheer up! Are you over it now?

Good.

You do need to acclimate better, but that'll only cost you an extra hour of your life. Cons to acclimation? I guess their can be cons to anything like vaccinating children, saving money, etc. but that doesn't mean there's validity in those arguments. Anyone not acclimating their animals is wasting money and life.

MO fish can be a good option; I've received excellent livestock from FFE, and their service has been really good also.

You are doing things right in that you have some lower lifeforms already thriving. Many invertebrates are more sensitive than fish, so with a little tweaking you should do fine.

Don't doom yourself to failure by getting hard-to-keep creatures (like the mandarin or anemones). Take a look in a book or online to see some easier-to-keep fish before making your selection. If the LFSs are inconvenient and you haven't seen enough of them to know what a good one is like, then try mail order.

Just don't get too many fish, stick to the easier ones, and acclimate them slowly. Since August (or earlier as I'm sure you were researching before then) you should have gotten the concept that slower is better. So, don't expect an incredible tank right away, and don't be too eager; I can tell you from personal experience that being over-eager costs time, frustration, and animals' lives.

Pets for Christmas is a bad idea also (though in your case you may have bought it for yourself). But just as a general rule I state that.

Good luck.

 

[Doug1]

Drip acclimating in MO is less traumatic and easier on organisms than the old float and scoop, sometimes its adequate for rrecently bagged fish but while its accepted practice in FW fish sales, I feel the complexity of the marine environment warrents more attention. I can't afford to lose critters from an ethical or monetarial stand point. It's my obligation to do the best for them I can, this is one way along with being very picky what I adopt

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I reefed,so I spent,it would have been cheaper to do it right the first time.........Doug@thereeftank
moderator in exile

 

[IronLung]

just a thought, could there be a nasty little booger living in the rocks that could have contributed to your fishes demise ezpecially the gramma and mand.?

just keep an eye out, most of the time the worthwhile things don't come without a little headache and frustration....cheer up charlie!!!!!!you'll find the golden ticket soon enough

pablo neruda

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[CTrout]

I've seen pros and cons to using a q-tank, pros and cons to using meds, pros and cons to acclimating fish at all, and generally, pros and cons to everything in this hobby that there are two sides to. And all I can say about putting fish on hold is that it must be nice to have a lfs that is willing to do this for you. There are only two within an hour of me that carry sw fish and if I asked either one to hold a fish for me so I could watch it for a week they'd laugh me out of the state. I guess I have no choice unless I want to buy my $10 fish mail order and pay $30 to ship it...

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IXOYE

 

[Ewan]

I let my reef mature for 1.5 years before adding any fish. This way, nitrification and denitrification had a good hold on things. By no means am I saying this was the cause of the deaths of your fish, but I am urging you to stick with it. Don't give up yet... Reefs are one of those delicate things that get better with age. Trust me.

My condolences...

Ewan.