Debate of the Decade: Reef-Safe Dwarf Angels

[melanotaenia]

I had a pair of argi angels. One ravaged acros and gorgonians, one never touched anything. Pretty much sums up the idea that each fish is individual, and you take your chances.

This is exactly my point. And yes your title is an Oxymoron. Dwarf angels in the wild just like in reefs will nip at corals. SPS corals that are healthy and growing are usually not a problem and will recover. That is why you see large reef tanks on here with dwarf angels and thrivig acros. But they will still nip and eat fleshy corals unless you get lucky and the specimen you get just happens to not be interested in eating corals. But you never know this answer until you trial run the fish in your tank.

There was a discussion like this one not too long ago on here. I would search for that thread and read the stories there. But like every other angels thread, you are going to get conflicting answers.

Not trying to be blunt, but these threads show up too often and always end up the same way, with half of the reef keepers having success and the other half having problems.

I had a Flame Angel in my reef. Ate nothing coral-wise for six months then one day decided to mow down some zoos. Did I know this could happen? Yes. But this is the chance I knew I was taking when dabbling with dwarf angels in a reef tank.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

The purpose of this thread was hopefully to educate not only myself, but others on this website regarding how environmental factors may play a part in the success they have with their angel in a reeftank, and that we may not be playing Russian roulette with our reeftanks by putting these lovely fish in them.

one thing that always has come up in the hundreds of threads on this topic is aquarium size. The smaller the aquarium the more likely it is that any Angelfish will pick on any given coral.

This website is a like a HUGE book. If you search through it's past threads on this topic the scope of it's contents will blow you away. There is literally CHAPTER upon CHAPTER of personal experiences documented. I'm trying to save you a lot of time

 

[laud]

I know the video is terrible, but the pair of Potter's Angels aren't. They are some of my best citizens in the reef. They dance together every night when the lights go down/actinic. I was going to use love music for the video, but my mood struck on the guitar.


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[tcmfish]

When they get in that pose do they ever shoot down? If so that would be spawning.

 

[costellow]

I have a 15 gal with 15lbs LR. I have had a pygmy angel for about 6 months. He has not touched anything except the food I feed him--he doesn't even really like the other stuff in the frozen omni food. he mostly likes the brine shrimp. He is such an active swimmer picking at the LR. I think he is a carnivore.

 

[Dooly]

i personally think this is a great thread that could be worth alot more than many other "reef safe angel" threads out there, it is in fact as specific as you can get in my opinion because the OP asks many specific questions regarding many aspects of the environment in which the fish was placed.

Other threads may answer one and another will prove helpful in another area, but this thread has the potential to answer most if not all "reef safe" questions regarding DWARF angels and not ALL angels all in one thread instead of having to weed through a dozen different archives to try and make sense of things.

if I had experience I would contribute, but I'm still waiting to find more info on which dwarf angel would suit my tank best

 

[tinyfish]

1. I have a Coral Beauty. It was about 1.5" long when purchased at LFS. No idea where it came from.

2. I have SPS, LPS, zoanthids, mushrooms, ricordia. CB has never touched any of the coral.

3. 30g long. 60#'s of Live Rock. Under 192w.

4. Tankmates have been Candy Hogfish, Chalk Bass, McCosker's Wrasse, cleaner shrimp.

5. Feed once per day, variety flakes. CB spends most of its time nipping at the rock. I assume its algae it is eating.

6. I quarantined the fish and tested all my coral in there with it. Small coral frags.

7. I have had this fish 4 months. It is very shy and swims in the rock most of the time. My thought on this is its size. I have had one before that was bigger at about 2.25" and that one was less shy and ate any food put in.

 

[gofor100]

I promised myself that I wouldn't post another response until someone actually posted something useful on this thread since I don't think that going back and forth on how useful or "un-useful" this thread is, is a good use of this thread... so I thank the few of you that did post information regarding your angels. I understand that some people are trying to "help" me by providing resources that may touch on some of the information I am seeking. I appreciate everyone trying to help me, but, as Dooly points out, the very reason why I started this thread was to condense all of the information AND find new information that I have not specifically found on other threads I have read. If you can point me to a thread or even a combination of threads that answers my questions, I would be more than happy to look at those threads. But unless those threads answer my specific questions, please don't reply with "this has been done before... go look for it" or "this website has chapters of information, you just have to find it" because I'm pretty sure that this thread is a much more efficient way for me and others to gain knowledge regarding this subject.

You guys can't imagine how happy I am that people have started posting information regarding Angels again!!! Thank you everyone and keep it coming!

 

[zooty]

I think this post is more concise than the others I have seen. I would even guess that we will see 2 correlations
1- People who feed once or more times a day have less issues
2- Fish spontaneously start nipping corals when the get older.

 

[gofor100]

You are probably right zooty... just from the limited posts so far and the reading that I've done, just plain logic would suggest that the more you feed, the younger the fish is when you got it, the more corals you have (plus the types of corals or color of corals you have), the bigger the tank, then the better chance you have of keeping an angel in a reef tank successfully. That is a statement that I'm pretty sure everyone would agree with at this point.

However, if one or two of those factors, such as the age of the fish, does not play a part, and instead, the fish owner became complacent and lazy in feeding the fish or doing water changes or changed the environment of the fish somehow over time, then that could potentially rule the factor we once felt was relevant out. Another example would be the frequency and types of feedings. If over 90% of people have success keeping an angel when they feed 2 or more times per day, or, to be even more specific, if they leave a rock with nori on it in the morning, and then feed a mixture of frozen food and formula food at night. Then we could potentially alter that general statement and make it more specific to identify what specific environment is successful.

 

[gofor100]

Oh, and please, anyone with unsuccessful stories, please share so that we can get the clearest picture possible.

 

[Saltyllama]

I'll play...

1. What type of Dwarf Angel do you have, how big was he/she when you got them and where (if you know) did they come from?

I have a coral beauty that was just under 3" when I got it. Not a clue where it came from.

2. Does your Dwarf Angel pick at any corals/clams? If so, how much and which types (please provide detail like type of coral/clam and color)?

No. (I have acros, montis, cyphastrea, frogspawn, GSP, xenia, anthelia, chalice, acan, zoas, palys, mushrooms, favia, war coral, candy, elegance, forgetting something. I also have a grade b crocea and three nems (two GBTA and 1 LTA).

3. How big is your tank and how much LR do you have in it (any algae growth in tank)?

Tank is 90 gallons, system is 120 and I have 150+ lbs of LR.

4. What other fish do you have in your tank? This might indirectly tell us whether there is a competitor for the same food source (algae) which leads the angel to pick at corals.

I have 3 occi clowns, 1 bullet goby, 1 mandarin, and 1 scopus tang (best friend of CB)

5. How many times do you feed per day and what do you feed?

2x nori, 1x dianachi pellets or a combo of PE mysis and bloodworms

6. Did you quarantine the fish before putting them in the DT?

LFS did for me.

7. Finally, how long have you had the fish, and how long have they been good/bad residents of the tank?

Had the fish for 4 months and never seen it come close. Picks at rocks all day and eats TONS of nori

 

[level65druid]

I have had a wantanabe angel for a little over 6months and is supposed to be one of the safest angel for a reef. Don't thinks it's considered a dwarf as it can get to about 5-6inches and to date has not even thought about picking at a coral. 110g tank with various sps and Lps with a powder brown tang and a yellow tail damsel.

 

[gofor100]

Any and all angel keepers are welcome to post... it'll give us a much better picture of the angelfish family as a whole.

As always, thank you for you feedback level65druid and saltyllama.

Level65druid: did you keep any millepora (or any other "furry" sps corals), and what type and color were most of your corals?

 

[Untamed12]

I have two dwarf angels...a bicolor and a rusty. So far, I've not seen either to pick specifically at any SPS, LPS, softies or clams. I've had the bicolor for almost 3 years and the Rusty for only a few months. They generally pick at every other surface of the tank walls and rock.

The tank is 400 gallons. It has a large amount of SPS, including very furry looking millis. My only LPS is a huge hammer coral. I have a few softies, including Xenia and a couple of leather corals. Two clams.

I feed only 1x per day. Large amounts of frozen clam, squid, octopus, shrimp...and large amounts of Nori sheets.

So...my experience with two dwarf angels so far is very good.

 

[gofor100]

Well, so far, it looks like 100% success rate

Just kidding, I know that there are unsuccessful stories out there, but for the ones that have posted (first of all thank you), it looks like the size of the aquarium does not have an affect on the success rate, however, since all sizes of aquariums (albeit, not all long term) have successfully kept angels (specifically dwarf and pygmy angels) AS LONG AS they fed them at least once a day.

I don't think that it hurts that many of you feed nori on a regular basis.... but flakes and frozen food seem to keep them in check.

However, since we haven't seen the unsuccessful stories (and their environments), its kind of difficult to narrow down the factors that matter.

Keep posting guys (successful and unsuccessful)!

 

[Big E]

I believe centropyges need to be have algae to pick at on the rocks, tanks sides, wherever. If it's not available they pick at other things..........OR they need to have algae in their diet.

What I'm getting at is that they may pick at other things because of a deficiency in their actual diet. A diet with more algae may be an anwser that is over looked.

Years ago my flame angel was fed every other day(was what we were told to do way back then to limit nutrients) & he didn't pick at any corals. I didn't have the advanced skimmers & other nutrient export alternatives we have now so there was plenty of film algae for the angel to pick at.

 

[TNTFISHY]

I picked up my Dward Cherub Pygmy Angel at a LFS. He went straight into a Biocube 29. I have about 25 pounds of purpled up live rock, and a 3 inch sand bed. He's in there with a Yasha Goby/Shrimp, Cleaner Shrimp, diamond goby, a couple of emerald crab, a boxer crab, a porcelain crab. Coralline all over the sides also. 2 nasarrius snails. 2 turbos. He's been in there for about 2-3 years. The only thing he really picks on is the Yasha Goby on occasion. When I first put in the Blue Crocea, he picked on it a few times. Probably out of curiosity. It was placed in the front of the tank. I then moved it to the right side, somewhat surrounded by rock, and he Never touches it. I have a Sunpod 150 hqi over the tank. The Cherub spends alot of time picking on the live rock though.

 

[TNTFISHY]

Oh...and I feed the tank thoroughly 1-2 times a week(Pump off, feed corals...). Then 2 days a week, I throw some pellets in sporadically.

 

[username in use]

I have a potters that is just under 3". Got him from an LFS, and put him directly in the DT. It is a 40g tank with all kinds of corals. Softies, LPS, SPS including mille's, and some other "fuzzy" ones. He was fine for 3 or 4 weeks and didnt touch anything. I got cocky and cut back on feedings because of an algae issue I was having. He ate about a 1/4 of a large bubble coral in a single day. I upped my feedings and he hasnt touched anything since. I feed a combination of h20 lifefoods 50/50 blend and hykari mini mysis, both twice a day. Even when really well fed, he is constantly picking at the rock and inspecting every square inch of the tank.