Deep Sand Bed -- Anatomy & Terminology
- Thread starter Whys
- Start date
I think it's important to note that nitrite labled(less toxic ) is really nothing to be concerned about in a salt water tank as a toxin. The label is technically accurate accurate but may benefit from the folllowing clarification.
While as an excess nutrient there is cause for concern, the large amount of chloride, 19000ppm ,in seawater neutralizes it's toxic effects. Many get caught up trying to test and manage for it in a qt tank for example(making qt management more difficult than it has to be) when it's not necessary. Many carry over freshwater fears of nitrite to salt water inappropriately. While there may be some level of toxicity when it hits hundreds of parts per million,this a level as a practical matter is not likely acheivable in a marine tank.
While as an excess nutrient there is cause for concern, the large amount of chloride, 19000ppm ,in seawater neutralizes it's toxic effects. Many get caught up trying to test and manage for it in a qt tank for example(making qt management more difficult than it has to be) when it's not necessary. Many carry over freshwater fears of nitrite to salt water inappropriately. While there may be some level of toxicity when it hits hundreds of parts per million,this a level as a practical matter is not likely acheivable in a marine tank.
Did he supply the captive bred lawn gnomes? 
Tom,
You might get a argument on nitrite toxicity from pro coral breeders. High levels have been shown to cause bleaching and other pathological changes of corals but it doesn't affect fish at the concentrations normally found in the marine aquarium.
Tom,
You might get a argument on nitrite toxicity from pro coral breeders. High levels have been shown to cause bleaching and other pathological changes of corals but it doesn't affect fish at the concentrations normally found in the marine aquarium.
Whys
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15174588#post15174588 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WaterKeeper
Did he supply the captive bred lawn gnomes?
Tom,
You might get a argument on nitrite toxicity from pro coral breeders. High levels have been shown to cause bleaching and other pathological changes of corals but it doesn't affect fish at the concentrations normally found in the marine aquarium.
There's gnomes?
And here I thought I had completed the diagram in my sleep.It's toxic, it's not toxic, it's toxic, it's not toxic...
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15174588#post15174588 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WaterKeeper
Did he supply the captive bred lawn gnomes?
Tom,
You might get a argument on nitrite toxicity from pro coral breeders. High levels have been shown to cause bleaching and other pathological changes of corals but it doesn't affect fish at the concentrations normally found in the marine aquarium.
I agree with the concern about nitirte in terms of corals but then nitrate is also very harmful in that context. If you have high nitrite , you likely have ammonia/ammonium and likely high nitrate unless you have some unusual imbalance between heterotrohopic and autptrophic bacteria.
Excess nitrogen NO2 , NO3.etc) may overdrive zooxanthelae growth to a level where they can: brown a coral; produce more oxygen than the coral can handle in it's tissues; or the zooxanthelae may use up CO2 locally and turn to bicarbonate for carbon depriving the coral of it and thereby inhibiting calcification. Basically , an excess of zooxanthelae knocks the coral out of balance can stress it and inhibit calcification leading to bleaching or tissue recession and sometimes death.
So, I tend to view nitrite as an excess nutrient issue as opposed to a toxin where corals are concerned. Perhaps it's semantical but it's toxicity is in nitrite's competition with chloride for protein uptake and it's nasty habit of reducing reducing the blood's ability to carry oxygen among other homeostatic imbalances it may cause in freshwater fish. .In a marine environment these would be offset by the abundance of chloride until levels of nitrite were reached which are impractical to attain in a functioning reef aquarium.
Nitrate or phosphate are usually the target of efforts to improve scenarios where corals are suffering from excess zooxanthelae or troubled calcification or tissue recession but the roots for nitrate ,ammonia and nitrite ,are obviously part of it.
Excess nitrite/nitrate could also indicate , excess organic compounds breaking down and fueling unhealthy level of bacterial growth in or on the coral . Bacterial activity centered on decay might also contribute to localized hypoxic conditions particularly at night when the coral is respiring leading to stress and stn or rtn particularly in sps.
Whys
New member
Dang! How did I not include that?
It's a bird... it's a plane... it's... it's... over my head!
Actually, I think I get it. You're both right and it's still moot.
This does raise a question in my mind tho. Why do we bother to test for nitrite at all? If it is such a nonthreatening intermediate stage, then why not just test for ammonia and nitrate?
It's a bird... it's a plane... it's... it's... over my head!
Actually, I think I get it. You're both right and it's still moot.
This does raise a question in my mind tho. Why do we bother to test for nitrite at all? If it is such a nonthreatening intermediate stage, then why not just test for ammonia and nitrate?
Good question. In most cases the nitrite stage only last about a week and then nitrate predominates. I say in most cases as sometimes a tank gets "stuck" for lack of a better term. For some unexplained reason the nitrate bacteria never seem to get started and the tank stays in the nitrite stage for a month or more. Eventually the problem clears up on its own but in a new aquarium one might think they have zero ammonia and nitrate when they did not test for nitrites that are actually present but undetected. In actual fact almost every new tank will show nitrate present after a week or two and, when I see someone say that both ammonia and nitrate are zero, it rings an alarm as there should be nitrate present. Denitrification conditions usually take longer to develop than the time needed to produce nitrate.
Bottom line is if you set up a new tank and ammonia is at zero but nitrate is present you probably can forget about getting a nitrite test kit.
Bottom line is if you set up a new tank and ammonia is at zero but nitrate is present you probably can forget about getting a nitrite test kit.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15175552#post15175552 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Whys
Dang! How did I not include that?
It's a bird... it's a plane... it's... it's... over my head!
Actually, I think I get it. You're both right and it's still moot.
This does raise a question in my mind tho. Why do we bother to test for nitrite at all? If it is such a nonthreatening intermediate stage, then why not just test for ammonia and nitrate?
Past cycling I don't test for it much . I do when I see high nitrate since a little nitrite can look like a lot of nitrate on some tests.
I've seen lots of folks stuggle with quarantine tank scenarios trying to manage nitrite. It's a misguided effort that can lead to frustration and less quarantining . That was the point of the post lest it be lost in the journey through the microbial jungle.I think I'll go dose/ consume some vodka now.
:lol::mixed:
And I don't know why that "stuck" situation occurs. Where is Greenbean when I need him.
I'd like to know too? Maybe it takes longer in some tanks than others (less bioagitation, advection, available organic carbon) for organic carbon to make it's way into hypoxic areas slowing proliferation of the heterotrophs engaged in anaerobic activity.
Maybe if there is too much organic carbon in oxic areas autotrophs are outcompeted by heterotrophs for ammonia/ammonium and don't develop as quickly making it easier for heterotrophs functioning aerobically to nitirfy and overload nitrate.
Or maybe in some tanks certain strains of heterotrophs and autotrophs and/or inhibitors are in play changing the timing of the cycle?
Just reaching around.
:lol:
Don't get me going on his photon is a photon discussion. He hates it when I bring up anything about spectral absorption.
Don't get me going on his photon is a photon discussion. He hates it when I bring up anything about spectral absorption.
acrouse
New member
Whys-really nice job on the diagrams and explaining them. After 3 years (still a newbie) I finally understand what is going on in my DSB. And for being on the New to Hobby forum, they are technical enough, to understand the process, but not intimidating or hard to follow. Great job to you and your listed helpers!!
jolene
jolene
euromomtx
New member
Can I ask a new question on a stickied thread or will it be distracting?
I just converted to a DSB (from 2 1/2" to 4") and I see dark/black areas underneath the surface (on the glass - obviously I don't really dig for it).
Did a quick search and found that some people think my black spots are signs of certain doom.
Can you tell me what my black spots in the sand indicate?
TIA!
I just converted to a DSB (from 2 1/2" to 4") and I see dark/black areas underneath the surface (on the glass - obviously I don't really dig for it).
Did a quick search and found that some people think my black spots are signs of certain doom.
Can you tell me what my black spots in the sand indicate?
TIA!
