DERBESIA/BRYOPSIS CONTROL WITH Mg++

[ssavader]

After returning from an extended medical leave, I came back to find my tank covered in cyanobacter. After weeks of cleaning up and gaining control of the cyanobacter, it was time to change out my metal halide (15k x 2) and florescent bulbs (450 watts x 2). I then began experiencing a cataclysmic blossoming of derbesia and bryopsis, that I assume is filling the niche provided by removing the cyanobacter and providing new lights. My nitrates measure 0ppm and my phosphates are 0.03ppm. The rest of my parameters are spot on, as well.

Here is my question: There are advocates of raising the Mg++ level to 1600 ppm which they state causes the hair algae to first whiten, and subsequently die. First, my Salifert test kit only measures Mg++ to 1500 ppm, so what are people using to test up to 1600 ppm? Second, will raising the Mg++ that high also kill the caulerpa and halimeda in my sump?

Thank you for any replies.

 

[RockOn681]

I found that raising mag that high did kill off the three species of macro I kept in my refugium, but did also successfully destroy the bryopsis I was loosing the battle too.

 

[Bryopsis]

I tried the tech m thing few weeks back, if it did anything to the bryopsis, it slowed it, otherwise nothing but killing a cleaner shrimp and stressing out everything else. (a snail even literally crawled down a wire out of the back of the tank)

Instead I found a 1:1 tank water to peroxide dip helped more than anything else.
Be sure to tweezer off what you can, then dip for no more than 15-20 seconds. Some sps frags I got that had bryopsis growing on the coral skeleton responded very well to the 15 second approach. (the suggested 5 minute dip I found online wreaked havoc on my blue sympodium and the other corals didn't enjoy it too much)

Less than a few weeks later and about 6-7 dips, the bryopsis is gone on all of the frags except for 1.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Here is my question: There are advocates of raising the Mg++ level to 1600 ppm which they state causes the hair algae to first whiten, and subsequently die. First, my Salifert test kit only measures Mg++ to 1500 ppm, so what are people using to test up to 1600 ppm? Second, will raising the Mg++ that high also kill the caulerpa and halimeda in my sump?.

It is not known how or why this works for bryopsis (I don't think it usually works for debresia).

BUT, the leading hypothesis that explains the most data is that it is not magnesium but an impurity that causes the effect.

So stick with Tech M as the supplement, unless you are interested in more of an experimental thing. Other brands often do not eseem to work as well.

As to the testing, just use a second syringe to test much higher levels, and add the two values together.

 

[Bryopsis]

It is not known how or why this works for bryopsis (I don't think it usually works for debresia).

BUT, the leading hypothesis that explains the most data is that it is not magnesium but an impurity that causes the effect.

So stick with Tech M as the supplement, unless you are interested in more of an experimental thing. Other brands often do not eseem to work as well.

As to the testing, just use a second syringe to test much higher levels, and add the two values together.

If ya search enough you'll find that some people say it was the old ingredients, so it doesn't work anymore, something about the guy who made it left Kent.

Others say it's just the copper in it, look at the old ingredients list. (this is why death is noticed with cleaner shrimp and stress in inverts..; my cleaner died, and a snail was out of the tank crawling down a back cable lol)

Others say it worked for them with brs 2 part or something else..

Others say there's a bazillion strains of bryopsis so it won't always work..

Others say it worked in one of their tanks, but not their other 4 ft away.

Others say elevated magnesium levels such as 1800-2000 disrupt the photosynthesis in the bryopsis no matter which mag supplement is used.

Another said, it has to be a +300 ppm difference from your original levels of mag, with the tech m.

Then some say just hit 1600, others say 1800, then others say (including Kent, though they don't condone it) 2000ppm magnesium.

Some say a week, some say a few weeks, some say several months of keeping the magnesium via tech m up high..

I'll agree with those who said it slows it...

(thought I would add this, I searched and searched and searched before going the peroxide 15 second dip route and handling things in several weeks versus tech m approach)

 

[ssavader]

thank you all for your replies. I let you know what I decide to do and what occurs.

 

[Aquarist007]

I believe bryopsis is encouraged by silicates. If you run a Gfo media then it can reduce silicates and curb the bryopsis

 

[stancfii]

IME, peroxide is like the nuclear approach. I traced my problem back to my automated feeder, which I stuffed and let run for months at a time, until it was time to re-stuff. The pellets were going bad from the humidity and I was dumping nutrients right into the tank. The hair algae sucks it all up, so my NO3 and PO4 were always undetectable. Here's the link to my thread. I took a shotgun approach, but have had NO hair algae since.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2446396

 

[codyreed29]

Maybe just cut back your lights a couple hours and slowly bring the to full hours.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I believe bryopsis is encouraged by silicates. If you run a Gfo media then it can reduce silicates and curb the bryopsis

Why would that be? I don't think it uses silicate.

 

[Bryopsis]

IME, peroxide is like the nuclear approach. I traced my problem back to my automated feeder, which I stuffed and let run for months at a time, until it was time to re-stuff. The pellets were going bad from the humidity and I was dumping nutrients right into the tank. The hair algae sucks it all up, so my NO3 and PO4 were always undetectable. Here's the link to my thread. I took a shotgun approach, but have had NO hair algae since.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2446396

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it will fix it with continued neglect present in other areas.. (it always comes down to nutrients usually)

But it does work while you address other areas.

 

[Aquarist007]

Why would that be? I don't think it uses silicate.

Oops apologies it's diatoms that can be driven by silicates
As always I appreciate you covering my back :thumbsup:

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

:thumbsup:

Happy Reefing.

 

[zoafarm]

IME, peroxide seems to only help. Tech-M seems to do a great job. Took about a week, and it turned white and disappeared over the next few days. I experienced some bleaching of red and orange zoas/palys, but they all recovered.

 

[CapnReefer]

I'll have to try peroxide next time. Tech M failed me last year when I had to take down a tank due to a bryopsis invasion.

 

[ssavader]

Well, I raised my Mg++ to 1600 and no change was noted. I checked my chemistry again and my nitrates were 0 ppm and my PO4 was 0.05 ppm. I replaced my ferrous iron. I then trimmed the algae by hand the best I could, bought 24 turbo snails and 12 Astrea snails, and placed one or two snails at the location of each hair algae outcropping. Things are moving slow but I definitely believe there is some improvement.

 

[Aquarist007]

Well, I raised my Mg++ to 1600 and no change was noted. I checked my chemistry again and my nitrates were 0 ppm and my PO4 was 0.05 ppm. I replaced my ferrous iron. I then trimmed the algae by hand the best I could, bought 24 turbo snails and 12 Astrea snails, and placed one or two snails at the location of each hair algae outcropping. Things are moving slow but I definitely believe there is some improvement.

Are you sure it is bryopsis? Can you post a picture.

 

[slief]

My 480G tank was being over run with Bryopsis. Tech M worked great for me.. 1600 wasn't high enough though. I went to 2000-2200 over the course of a week and a half or so and it knocked it out very quickly. Once I hit the 2000 mark the stuff started dying off very fast. I stopped dosing it and let the Mg levels come back down on their own via my regular water changes. Within a couple weeks all the Bryopsis was gone. There hasn't been a trace of Bryopsis since my treatment which was almost 2 years ago. I so not adverse effects in my tank either. All my corals and inverts were fine.

 

[GroktheCube]

IME, Tech M works for Bryopsis, but NOT Derbesia. After a tear down/rebuild while my fish were in ich treatment, I had a GHA (un-ID'd) explosion. I killed it off easily using algaefix, but bryopsis and a little derbesia sprung up in its place.

I used Tech M, which killed the Bryopsis, but left the Derbesia unharmed. I had to drain the tank a few days ago to re-level (el cheapo shim compressed), and took the opportunity to hit the big patches with some drug store peroxide. Only about two minutes contact time, because I didn't want to leave my corals out of the water for very long, and I was pretty conservative with they amount I used, but I had about a 50% kill rate.

I just set up a new external skimmer and a fuge in the sump, hopefully that combined with moving my foxface, tang, and blenny back will fix the rest of the problem.

Moral of the story: No chemical solution for Derbesia other than H2O2.

 

[Tonyreefer]

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If ya search enough you'll find that some people say it was the old ingredients, so it doesn't work anymore, something about the guy who made it left Kent.

Others say it's just the copper in it, look at the old ingredients list. (this is why death is noticed with cleaner shrimp and stress in inverts..; my cleaner died, and a snail was out of the tank crawling down a back cable lol)

Others say it worked for them with brs 2 part or something else..

Others say there's a bazillion strains of bryopsis so it won't always work..

Others say it worked in one of their tanks, but not their other 4 ft away.

Others say elevated magnesium levels such as 1800-2000 disrupt the photosynthesis in the bryopsis no matter which mag supplement is used.

Another said, it has to be a +300 ppm difference from your original levels of mag, with the tech m.

Then some say just hit 1600, others say 1800, then others say (including Kent, though they don't condone it) 2000ppm magnesium.

Some say a week, some say a few weeks, some say several months of keeping the magnesium via tech m up high..

I'll agree with those who said it slows it...

(thought I would add this, I searched and searched and searched before going the peroxide 15 second dip route and handling things in several weeks versus tech m approach)