Diatoms on sand, what to do?

inetmug

New member
Been battling this for a bit now. All params are good except for nitrate at 30, phosphate low at .04-.06. I gave up on chaeto for the time being and are in week two of vinegar carbon dosing. Tank looks great otherwise.

In the AM, the sand looks ok, in the afternoon after the lights come on, it looks like this below (not my tank, but very representative).

I am working on the nitrates. But in the meantime is there a CUC that will help with this, and or should I used a strong siphon to remove it, or will that make it worse? It seems to clump up a bit in the dark brown areas.

The initial setup cycled well, with a diatom bloom as expected, with it fading off. I suspect I am getting some mini-cycles on new additions maybe, and or lack of flow in the tank. I have tremendous water exchange, but flow throughout can be better.

No other algae, hair, etc. growing, all other things are ok.


https://www.google.com/search?q=dia...2F267275-diatoms-all-over-sand-bed%2F;737;487
 
Are you sure it is diatons? ... It sounds more like dinoflagelates . Thick brown over the sand that disappear when lights are out. Check for pictures online and compare it with what you have.
I hope I am wrong. It is difficult to get rid of Dinos.it took more than 3 months to get rid of them in my tank.
 
Well, from what I can read/tell, diatoms, not dinos. No stringy stuff, nothing anywhere but on rocks. Not cyano, but could be related. A few week ago I got some reported CUC, and it seems to almost disappear, until the spanish lobster got most of then. Neirth/ceirth which are supposed to eat the diatoms, as I have read, nothing can eat dinos due to toxic aspects.
 
Before all of that, I'd try to look at why your nutrients are so high... then I'd try to get those waaaaaaay down.
 
Pick a bit up and grind it between your fingers. If diatoms, it will feel like sand (due to their large uptake of silicates, aka sand). Dinos feel like cyano, slimy. Also if you have access to a microscope with 40X mag, it is easy to tell which.

Your nitrates are high, I'd recommend trying to lower them (fresh water change). If you are performing water changes regularly, I'd look into the cause. The vinegar dosing helps with nitrates, though you may see effects from them on corals (debatable).

Not all dino is toxic. There is a ton of species both toxic and non-toxic.

Phosphates SEEM ok, though it may be a false negative. Algae uptakes the phosphates quicker than you can test for them. Though I am impressed your phosphates show that low without a ATS or gfo reactor.
 
wcarterh,

it feels liko diatoms per your suggestion. I have seen some pictures of dinos, as stated, no stringy stuff.

working the nitrates, it has been a slow problem and creeped up on me. I am now reducing feeding to a degree. I am thinking I put too much livestock in too fast, and the sand and rock were not ready. I have probably 150# of rock, maybe more, but not all of it was live. I am also not running socks nor filter pads anymore, seems like little or no difference. Skimmer seems to be working properly, but is a tad undersized at 180G. I shop vac the sump on water changes. I just added about 1500GPH of powerhead last night also.

I had rowaphos GFO reactor in there for a few months, had Po4 at .36 for a bit. That rowaphos hammered it down quickly. I pulled the reactor to try and see if the Po4 could come up a bit for a better Po4/nitrate ratio so the cheato would flourish (one such theory). But the second round of chaeto died off, even with a 120W 5k bulb.

It also just occurred to me I should have put this in the reef thread.... moderator please feel free to move. Sorry.
 
I believe they were neirth, ceirth, and something called a blackfoot? Sorry, not up on my CUC naming.... but they seem to hammer it in short order, but I think the lobster eventually went out for midnight snacks

I also have three fighting conchs, and 6 monster mexican turbos
 
Stop water changes. Manually remove them. Only replace the water with RO/DI salt water and only replace what you lose through removal of the diatoms.
 
Trochus and Turbo snails likely will eat diatoms, although they might not be able to keep up with the growth rate. I might try adding one.

Water changes might be adding some fixed nitrogen and silicate to the tank water, although I probably would keep up with a reasonable water change schedule, perhaps 10% every week or two.
 
Filter socks are great, but need to be regularly cleaned out.

How old is the tank? Did you add all of the rock at once? Did you try and spike the ammonia when the cycle looked like it was completed to see if it was completed? Most don't, but when adding dead rock, as you stated, and you add livestock at a quicker rate, it may not be able to keep up.

Water changes using RO/DI as tkeracer619 and bertoni stated. The water could be adding phosphates and silicates. Though on a newer tank, silicates will be added by the sand until it is exhausted by something. Seachem, phosguard, silicates will all pull the silicates.
 
Ok using new spectapure 5 stage with zero tds, will that add the silicates?

Tank is about 9 months now cgcled with shrimp it all looked good then. Should i start back the reactor with gfo as that will reduce silicate? Sand on startup was all new caribe reef sand special mix and caribsea live.

All in whatever you guys say. ..p
 
Wow reading those article seems i might dose silica lol. Odd thing my 55 reefer never had an issue. Added lots of powerhead flow.
 
Well, if you want to spend the cash, they do have silicate test tests. You could test you water before and after RO/DI.

Did your other tank ever have a nitrate spike?
 
I'm curious to why the nitrates are high. Inetmug, how much and how frequently are you performing water changes? Had any fish or larger CUC go missing?
 
My sand looks terrible as well, I got a sand-sifting star, but she won't eat any of the algae or detritus, she just gets out at night and eat all the pellet food and disappears.
 
I'm curious to why the nitrates are high. Inetmug, how much and how frequently are you performing water changes? Had any fish or larger CUC go missing?

Me too.....

No fish missing, nor CUC that I can count. Ammonia/nitrite continue to be zero, and have always been since the cycle. Water changes were 1/month, and sometimes they went to 6 weeks. For the last month, been doing one about 2-3 weeks of 50G, which should be about 15-20%, using RC salt. Regarding my 50G, I am sure it saw some spikes here and there over 8 years. This seems to be a gradual thing, accumulating.

I have a French angle, another angle that I forget the name of the specific type, a high hat, surgeon, convict tang, pajama cardinal, atlantic cardnal, and one clown. I also have a pair of band corals, and a spanish lobster, and a sallylightfoot, and three fighting conchs. There are numerous CUC types that are small, with two good sized serpent stars. I have one leather coral, three trumpets, several frogspawns, and yumas, and two small kenya trees, and two rose bubbles.

The triumpets and kenyas are doing poorly, the leather is fair. The anemones were absolutely rocking but are now doing poorly. Frogspawn and yumas are fine. Some of this for the corals and leather is due to the angles picking, they are on their way out as soon as I find a home (I have seen them do it). The bubble tips were perfect, and I mean perfect, until right around the time that.... the black clown found them, and I started dosing CA/ALK/MG to keep it right. No telling which is the key. But the clown moved from the big one to the little one, and now both are not so hot. I hand feed the lobster to keep him happy.... and what a show that gets to be.... :-), really fun to watch, he has become very social. I have had several molts of the lobster and the sally lightfoot, which I am told is a sign of "good" water quality.

Some of these fish came from my 55G, some from my bud that passed away. They were added to the tank slowly, after the tank initially cycled via dead shrimp for a month. About 50% of the rock was live, and 60# of sand was live versus the rest, which was the right seeding ratio prescribed by caribsee. I did not start the skimmer initially in the first 2 months. The dead shrimp were monitored and were seen to get gelatinous and clear in 2 days.From what I could see, I got the normal cycle with the ammonia, then diatoms, then green, etc. I did do a few rock additions over time, which did disturb some things.

I have a big ampmaster pump, which should in theory be doing 20 changes per hour, but with plumbing loss I would say 10-15 would be a safe bet. I have LEDs 20k high output from buildmyled (new). The tank had good flow, but did have some dead spots I am sure.

I believe three things happened. The first was I was probably overfeeding a bit. The second, is I was using pads, and was not changing them frequently enough - now no pads nor socks and I can not really see a difference. The third is I did not have enough flow, and I was getting dead spots - I took care of that this week. A fourth thing, is that even though I added a fish or two every two weeks or more, it was still too much.

The nitrates were 5 at best for a long time, and things seemed to changed after introducing the anemones and frogspawns. I understand corals put out a lot of mucus, and perhaps my skimmer is not enough. I am looking for an additional used external now.

One other thing, we just noticed that in the AM, we get a beam of sunlight that comes through a window into the tank. This is a winter thing only. Going to hang a towel on the tank in the AM.

No hair algee, nothing else on the rocks, all purpling up nicely due to parameter maintenance. Minimal growth on the acrylic faces, but it is brown. The only thing that "looks" out of place is the sand, and of course the corals/anemones as mentioned.

Week three now of vinegar dosing, following the tables from the advanced aquariest.
 
If the tank doesn't have any bio-balls or other artificial nitrification media, I suspect the nitrate is from the food. The nutrient input to the tank is greater than the export capacity, well, assuming the measurement is correct. That's consistent with the measurable phosphate level.

Sand-sifting starfish are predators on small animals in the sand. Most often, they starve to death over some period of time. This one might be wiling to eat enough leftover food to survive for some time.
 
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