Didn't want to hijack the seahorse eat thread

[acroboy]

Glad I could help. That’s why I don't mind helping people with research like the other post with the marine Killies.

I would never claim to know everything, there is not enough time in my life or anyone else’s to do so, but when I have accomplished something that someone says cant be done appropriately I will stand up for myself.

 

[seamonkey2]

once again great job, and I AM STILL JELOUS

ok so back the food topic, do you sell pods?, I like to put some more in my tanks, since I got a lot of SH and others that eat all day

would you PM me when you get the change

thanks

Jose

 

[acroboy]

Tell ya what. When they spawn in the spring. Ill ship them to you free. Like I said I'm not here to make money from a fellow hobbiest. Just give them a dip in fresh water so everyone doesn't try and accuse me of killing off the hobby.

 

[seamonkey2]

LOL, good comment

thanks for the offer

Jose

 

[Poniegirl]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8418955#post8418955 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by acroboy
I wish people would get out beyond a text book. 24 years in the feild on my own there is so much more to learn from being there, and things that text books don't teach for reasons that invove commericial conflicts. Books are there for being guides nit bibles. There are books out there that are great for collectors but many people dont know about them because collectors are big DIY guys and that doesn't generate cash.

[/B]

I agree. And thank you for a very enlightening thread.

 

[Fredfish]

Nor worries acroboy. I think we are all glad you are posting here.

When I think of northern oceans I think darn cold! It would not surprise me if your horses were able to withstand temperatures lower than 43 for short periods of time.

On the northern vs southern erectus, Vicent and crew did some genetic analysis of a number of species in 2005 and concluded that the genetic drift between the two populations put them as far apart genetically as many horses considered separate speices. I expect someone will get around to re-classifying them some time.

At this point we know very little about most seahorse species. Nobody has really done many studies on their requirements in nature let alone in the aquarium.

Unfortunately, nature hates a vacume, so when we know little or nothing about a particular aspect of something, we fill in with a 'best guess'.

The discussions I see around temperature, disease and horses sounds a lot like what I heard about corals and fish 15 years ago when the hobby as a whole was still in its infancy.

Acroboy, you have spent a lot of time with your horses. I hope you come back often and share your experiences and observations with us.

Fred

 

[acroboy]

I did a show this year for a New York State Assemblyman. It was a Marine Expo about taking care of what we have and showing people what is living right under their noses. To see people from 4 to 84 look in shock when they were looking in the seahorse tank and to realise they were caught there for the show.30-40seahorses. The way their jaws hung open is disbelief and the amazement of the children. I can't put it in words. I just want people to feel the same way I did when that first seahorse lay across my palm, and in the 80's Erectus of over 4 inches was common.

 

[pledosophy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8418423#post8418423 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by seamonkey2
acroboy, forgive pledosophy after all people from california are that way(before you think of something back to say to me pledosophy, read your own comments, they were condesenting, offensive, demining...just plain insulting, I got what acroboy meant, and I was happy for him, I got kind of hot under the collar, after reading your comments, so you think you are hollier than him/us? )

Well that's just not very nice Jose. My tone is based on your own interpretation. I did apologize to Acroboy if I offended Acroboy, stated my concern.

Afterall not everyone from California can be that be that bad. Mickey Mouse is from California, do you hate him as well. :hmm2: We grew up in the same town

If I really get under your collar that much RC has this great ignore feature. You can choose to ignore me and never have to read another post of mine. This site is a hobbyist site. You should enjoy it. Life's too short not to. I don't want to be responsible for ruining your hobby, seriously.

If you do take the time to read through my posts, click on my name to see my profile and then opt to find all members posts, you'll find I'm usually helpful. I behave. There was that protein skimmer thread were I regretable acted uncooth, and then that issue with a member bashing another site, but for the most part I behave. C'mon now don't be so quick to judge, life's too short.


Acroboy and I differ on philosophy. I don't hate the guy nor did I mean to insult him. I just disagree with his husbandry techniques. I'm sure if this were real life the two of us could sit across the tables and drink some beer and talk for hours about seahorses and have a jolly old time. Shake hands or hug on departure, I'm German, we're huggers.

My backround is different. My views are different. I come from more of a conservationalist standpoint. IMO no one should ever take a seahorse from the ocean again. It is one thing if you are a breeding faciltiy taking a few seahorses to use as brood stock and turn out hundreds of seaorses to the hobbyist market. This act would be alleviating the collection of hundreds of horses from the ocean so IMO good. Collecting all the seahorses from the ocean help to diminish the population which increases the impact we as hobbyist have on the ocean. I only buy CB corals too, even if they cost twice as much. I used to propigate corals myelf on a smaller scale to give back what I could. Sold them at a loss, enjoyed the process.

Acroboy takes seahorses from the ocean in hopes to educate others.

We have the same goal about education and appreciation we just prefer different methods. There is no reason that we should not get along.

I was concerned with his first posts about others getting the idea that it was O.K. to release there aquarium inhabitants to the ocean. It would not be the first time we had seen this in this forum.

IMO there are many elements to seahorse care that are not commonly understood, that without proper knowledge and mindfulness could be extremely detrimental to the environment. For example, did you know that rescent research has indetified several strains of vibrio in artmia. If someone did not know what they were doing, then they could feed bbs to there fry, then release the fry back to the environment, wiping out the seahorses in the entire region. Similiar example would be what the first Euoropean settlers to Americans did to the Native Americans. Without previous exposure to the bacteria's and disease the European settlers carried, many of the natives died.

Another analogy is what happens when people from America go to Mexico and drink the tap water. People native to the region are fine, but outsiders get ill.

I would like to learn more about what is being done to accomadate for these risks, which is why I keep asking him to outline his system. I'm sorry if my questions appear intrusive. I am not trying to be arguemenative, although I see how my posts can be interpreted as being that. I do not mean them to be. Blame me as a poor communicator on the internet, I am, but I really do not mean to sound so bad. Funny I only get these responses on the internet, in life, fae to fac, never have any problems.

Personally I do not have anything against Acroboy. I did not and do not mean to insult or disrespect him. Really not my intnetion. I realize electronic communication lacks many of the tells such as tone, inntonation, and body language, so you will have to take me at my word, or not.

Part of the intention of this site is to iscuss the care of various reef related topics, this forum is about seahorses. Why close the discusssion?

All this said I'm about to blow it because I have to ask. Please take this as an observation and not a criticism. Again if we were face to face and you could hear my tone, and see my expression I'm sure you would not be offended. The mere act of my writing all of this should show you I have reasonably good intention. But my curiosity and the question begs,

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8417175#post8417175 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by acroboy
Know one has seen the decline of seahorses like I have. Until the earlt ninties I would be able to catch 60 H. Erectus in an hour with my friends in a space that was a few hundred feet wide.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8429466#post8429466 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by acroboy
To see people from 4 to 84 look in shock when they were looking in the seahorse tank and to realise they were caught there for the show.30-40seahorses.

How do you reconcile the two statements?

Certain species of seahorse are in danger with the largest predator being the Traditional Chineese Medicine Market, but the Northern Erectus of NY does not fall into the catergory. It is also not a species commonly traded. What's the threat? Why the decrease?

Please know I'm not trying to be mean, but with 25 years in, you could really teach the next generation a thing or two, just trying to understand.

 

[seamonkey2]

This post was originally, split of by acroboy(whom I am sure is laughing at this silly crap, like I am too) so we can talk about food for horses and you turn it into this.

if you think my comments to you weren't nice, that is because I meant them that way

oh yeah I like mouse just fine, I am fan of the club

I never stated that I hate you or the mouse, YOU said it

but my comment about california people stands, tree hugers and wacko enviromentalists who reside in a state where there are most natural disasters that any other part of the world...take the hint get out and enjoy life

your backround does not matter to me German, asian, whatever, people blame their ancentry and past problems for their own downfalls, my mommy didn't love me, or, no body understands me, or, we German are that way, so cry me a river LOL, (sorry I had to use that one,) we all are in this alone, brake the chains, be better than your past, succeed where other fails, then help the ones you can.

I have read some of your past posts, and you have some Intelligent input, with the clear exception of this one.

there are many elements of ALOT of things we do not understand, not just horses

Acroboy takes seahorses from the ocean in hopes to educate others..... this statement can be taken wrong, I understand your point about peolpe taking you the wrong way, but think about this, what has more impact in a leaning process, specially for kids, they look at live SH from the area they are from or a movie and tell them the horses are in the ocean...yeah I know, scary eh?

acroboy has help more people than you think, don't believe me, think about it like this...Steve Erwin crazy guy messes with very dangerours animals wright?....well more children and adults have learn from him in the past 10 yrs, that from books in 50 yrs...scary again eh?

hey acroboy, you just got bump up to the likes of Steve Erwin, way to go man LOL, can I have your autograph

what he is doing is truly great, if you had questions about his set up, ask him about it politelly, he doesn't have to if he dont want to, don't acussed him of wrong doings before you get all the facts, in other words dont jump the gun

thanks for the insight about world history, I been around a couple of days and in a couple of countries

there are alot of other species that have disapear from the world, I dont see you talking about them, we knew nothing about horses, 50 yrs ago, other that the fact that they were in ancient literature, yes I read too, not just look at the pretty pics.

I would like to learn more about what is being done to accomadate for these risks,.... once again, my statement stands......some times you have to chop a tree to make a book

IMO there are many elements to seahorse care that are not commonly understood, that without proper knowledge and mindfulness could be extremely detrimental to the environment....shoot just about everything we do now a days does something to the enviroment.

Certain species of seahorse are in danger with the largest predator being the Traditional Chineese Medicine Market....so pickett their embassy...or better yet go to china and complain, see what kind of result you get, I'll pay you the one way fare..

but the Northern Erectus of NY does not fall into the catergory. It is also not a species commonly traded....so you choose what to complain about eh??

What's the threat? Why the decrease? ...weather, lack of food, predators, mother nature..some many things....I know lets blame the people who puts them in glass boxes...YEAH...how ingnorant

well thanks for the amusement..cheers for know

ok so back to the reguraly schedule food for horses progam

Jose

 

[acroboy]

You say

"IMO there are many elements to seahorse care that are not commonly understood, that without proper knowledge and mindfulness could be extremely detrimental to the environment....shoot just about everything we do now a days does something to the environment."

Almost everything that has damaged the environment has been done on a commercial level. You are not in a position to generalize a statement like that. When you present me with you doctorate in Ichthyology we can discuss your opinion further. I'm sorry if it offends you but this is not a political forum and there is not too much room for the high and mighty especially with any credentials. Again you came after me, I wasn't going to let you throw stones without any credentials. It’s nice that you have kept aquariums and have responsibly read a few books. Just like my 25 + years would mean nothing, countless text books ,nothing coming from a family of fish breeding that exceeds my own by 30+ years means nothing. Spending time with a man whose masters was based on H Erectus with my own 25+ in the Field, Priceless.


Gill netting was responsible for a huge decline in H erectus. Only the smaller seahorses are able to pass. I figured you would have known that, but that was just the beginning, if you think the Asian market isn't taking H Erectus your wrong. I witnessed it. Native blackfish will feed on seahorses along with anything else that need scavenge during our winter months. These seahorses don't leave New York. They are native. There is a whole world out there that is going on and allot of it still can't be found on the internet.

An outline of my system sure.



150 gallon tank with large wet dry filter 36 watt UV, red sea ozone system with controller, ozone reactor.

40 gallon tall with wet dry and 36 watt UV.


Water is taken from the area where the seahorses are held.

Shrimp are taken where the seahorses are held and supplemented with frozen mysis. I have outlined the pen in another thread.

 

[seahorsedreams]

Do you have LR in the seahorse tank? What is the origin of the LR (if you do.)

Do you have any corals in there?

Sorry if that was already answered because I skimmed over the bickering and may have missed something.

 

[seahorsedreams]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8418423#post8418423 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by seamonkey2
after all people from california are that way

I always run into rudeness over here....

 

[acroboy]

I never use liverock. I have an open tank with a thin layer of sand which was NOT live and replica eel grass. I do not like expose my seahorses to parasites

 

[seahorsedreams]

oops... messed up.

 

[seahorsedreams]

Hmmmmmmm..... thinking........

So, you pluck them out of the water and put them in a tank with artifical or native stuff.... and then returned them......

Okay, I can't find a contaminent factor in that and it is similar to something I would do with pipefish. But people PLEASE don't take the concept and run with it! If your native fish comes into contact with foreign live food, corals, fish, liverock it cannot be returned!

 

[acroboy]

PLEASE READ THE WHOLE THREAD. THINGS LIKE THIS ARE EXACTLY WHAT CAUSES A PROBLEM.

To sum it up for those wit A.D.D.

I keep my seahorses indoors for winter, bring them out in summer where they can eat 24/7 if they want to and return them indoors in the fall. Everything in their in door tank is not live but replicated and is the healthiest way to run the tank. They are never exposed to anything other than where they come from.

These seahorses are native and being raised that way.

 

[seahorsedreams]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8443953#post8443953 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by acroboy
PLEASE READ THE WHOLE THREAD. THINGS LIKE THIS ARE EXACTLY WHAT CAUSES A PROBLEM.

To sum it up for those wit A.D.D.

Who are you talking to?

 

[acroboy]

I apologies, If I came off harsh. Just felt like I was getting attacked. If you read the entire thread you will see these seahorses don't come in contact with anything other then things from their natural environment.

 

[seahorsedreams]

I was agreeing with you......

and I do have ADD.

 

[acroboy]

The only reason I knew is because I was diagnosed also.