Dinoflagellates.
- Thread starter DNA
- Start date
DNA
New member
Reefkeeper2. Some equipment has double insulation and don't "need" to be grounded.
I find that unsuitable for reef tanks unless you ground the saltwater in your tank.
I do this with my titanium heaters so there is no chance for a incident like yours.
Metal will fly off bare wires with even the slightest of voltage and that means copper and coral death.
I don't recommend those titanium probes, because that means you are using a glass heater.
They tend to stick on or off when you least expect them to, leak or break with regular use.
I've had close to 10 glass heaters fail throughout my fishkeeping years.
Reefkeepers should not even consider them.
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Now, back on topic. Dinos.
I find that unsuitable for reef tanks unless you ground the saltwater in your tank.
I do this with my titanium heaters so there is no chance for a incident like yours.
Metal will fly off bare wires with even the slightest of voltage and that means copper and coral death.
I don't recommend those titanium probes, because that means you are using a glass heater.
They tend to stick on or off when you least expect them to, leak or break with regular use.
I've had close to 10 glass heaters fail throughout my fishkeeping years.
Reefkeepers should not even consider them.
---
Now, back on topic. Dinos.
TampaSnooker
Active member
I hope this isn't veering off topic here, but since so many of you have them - can I get a recommendation on where to get a good scope? My notes (probably from talking w pants) tell me 4 or 10 objective and 40x magnification but a quality lens is most important. Any brand suggestions? I'm not sure how I would assess the lens. TIA.
Pants
Member
I have discussion of that on my website here. I still want to get my adviser to look over it as he knows way more and will have strong opinions.
The gist of what I say is if you just need a quick look at something try borrowing one. Asking a HS Bio teacher is a good option.
If you want to buy one, then buy used. Go to your local university surplus store or hit ebay or some other auction site.
You will need a low power objective (2-10X) and a higher magnification objective (40X-60X).
Make sure there are no missing parts (including light sources) and no dents or big scratches.
Look for brands you would recognize and respect when buying a camera. Zeis, Leica, Olympus, Nikon.
If you aren't terribly interested in high magnification needed to differentiate types of dinos, a dissecting scope might be cheaper and have wider utility. With a dissecting scope you could check corals and fish for parasites, hitchhikers, infections. That would not be possible with a compound scope. But you lose magnifying power for that trade-off.
The gist of what I say is if you just need a quick look at something try borrowing one. Asking a HS Bio teacher is a good option.
If you want to buy one, then buy used. Go to your local university surplus store or hit ebay or some other auction site.
You will need a low power objective (2-10X) and a higher magnification objective (40X-60X).
Make sure there are no missing parts (including light sources) and no dents or big scratches.
Look for brands you would recognize and respect when buying a camera. Zeis, Leica, Olympus, Nikon.
If you aren't terribly interested in high magnification needed to differentiate types of dinos, a dissecting scope might be cheaper and have wider utility. With a dissecting scope you could check corals and fish for parasites, hitchhikers, infections. That would not be possible with a compound scope. But you lose magnifying power for that trade-off.
DNA
New member
I personally like the "turn on your charms and borrow one" advice from pants.
That could also work for borrowing access to one which worked for me.
Looking at his pictures you can see what to expect with the magnification you have.
That is the information I didn't find when needed.
Due to high local cost and low quality products I decided to pull it off with my own optics and photography.
A standard 100mm macro lens gives you 1:1 ratio and is hardly going to be enough, but it's much better than nothing.
The Canon lens MPE 65 is better with 5:1 from life size, but it will put you back by more than a $1000 and is difficult to use.
I also considered USB devices claiming 100X magnification, but that turned out to be white lies.
It's not 100X from life size but from much less than life size wide angle of the device.
There is a reason microscopes are out there.
I'd love to own a good one and will buy it used when I find it.
That could also work for borrowing access to one which worked for me.
Looking at his pictures you can see what to expect with the magnification you have.
That is the information I didn't find when needed.
Due to high local cost and low quality products I decided to pull it off with my own optics and photography.
A standard 100mm macro lens gives you 1:1 ratio and is hardly going to be enough, but it's much better than nothing.
The Canon lens MPE 65 is better with 5:1 from life size, but it will put you back by more than a $1000 and is difficult to use.
I also considered USB devices claiming 100X magnification, but that turned out to be white lies.
It's not 100X from life size but from much less than life size wide angle of the device.
There is a reason microscopes are out there.
I'd love to own a good one and will buy it used when I find it.
reefkeeper2
Premium Member
I never learn. I have had lots of glass ones break over the years, and I still use them. 
TampaSnooker
Active member
Huh, I've shelved several titanium heaters after finding them to be the cause of stray current - might have been the probes or cheap manufacturing.
Pants, DNA - great info on scopes - thanks for sharing.
Now, back on topic. Dinos...
Pants, DNA - great info on scopes - thanks for sharing.
Now, back on topic. Dinos...
I keep syphoning... No positive changes no matter what I do. In desperation I tried Algae X... just finished the treatment. Nothing. Dinos keep smiling at me. I'll give the tank a few days to recover and my next thing might be Randy's high PH drill along with 3 or 4 days in the dark.
LOL - I'm so frustrated with this that my wife asked me if I have a problem with her or at work...
LOL - I'm so frustrated with this that my wife asked me if I have a problem with her or at work...
Relativity
New member
Check mine out. I started bio-pellets and it has slowed the growth on them.
Next I will try zeolites and ozone Im using uv right now as well. This monster came from some dry rock I used from a past tank.
I've had tanks in the past but never anything like this in my tanks.
The coral line algae has only started growing on the rocks
Next I will try zeolites and ozone Im using uv right now as well. This monster came from some dry rock I used from a past tank.
I've had tanks in the past but never anything like this in my tanks.
The coral line algae has only started growing on the rocks
Relativity
New member
Yeah you can only see it if you look really closely. I have to buy another led to put my acans in the sump and get some pepperment ship to eat it
Surly: Unluckily I have not had Pants ID my Dinos. I bought a cheap microscope so I managed to verify it's Dinos and not Diatoms or Cyano though by comparing with pictures Pants and others have posted. But the device is really bad so I can't see much detail to ID the actual strain. I wish I could take a picture of what I see. Something interesting though: I have yet to see this thing to produce bubbles...
As I mentioned before, I started raising PH from my normal 8.1-8.2 to 8.4 or so. When I get there I'll o lights off for 3 or 4 days.
Question [a really dumb one] for Pants: How do I get a decent sample? The stuff is in the sandbed. Not much in the rocks or anywhere else.
As I mentioned before, I started raising PH from my normal 8.1-8.2 to 8.4 or so. When I get there I'll o lights off for 3 or 4 days.
Question [a really dumb one] for Pants: How do I get a decent sample? The stuff is in the sandbed. Not much in the rocks or anywhere else.
Pants
Member
Collecting a sample doesn't need to be complex. Use your hand or a turkey baster type coral/fish feeding tool to remove some from the tank. Its not a problem if you get sand in there with it. If you find the sand to be problematic when trying to view it with your scope, take your sample and put it in a ziplock bag then shake vigorously for a few seconds. Use some of the water from the bag. Whatever was in the sand will be in the water column now.
If your resolution is really poor on your scope, try paying attention to movement instead of shape. If they are spinning around like a tether ball then it is Ostreopsis. If they are scooting along the surface its probably Amphidinium. If they are really really tiny and just sit suspended in mucous with the odd one swimming in circles then its the tiny guy who looks like symbiodinium that I don't have a name for yet.
If your resolution is really poor on your scope, try paying attention to movement instead of shape. If they are spinning around like a tether ball then it is Ostreopsis. If they are scooting along the surface its probably Amphidinium. If they are really really tiny and just sit suspended in mucous with the odd one swimming in circles then its the tiny guy who looks like symbiodinium that I don't have a name for yet.
Relativity
New member
Where did you buy hydrogen peroxide
takaiguchi
New member
For what is worth, I tried dosing h2o2 for 1 week and the only thing I accomplished was to ****-off my already unhappy corals. But I read it has worked for some, much like any other method.
As a technology guy, which I am, it strikes me we can send men to space but we can't figure out how to beat these microscopic little things. Amazing.
As a technology guy, which I am, it strikes me we can send men to space but we can't figure out how to beat these microscopic little things. Amazing.
SurlyT
Member
Philosophically I agree with you (I'm in technology as well). The problem is, a truly exact approach would require far more analysis, work and money than anyone would ever consider reasonable. You'd need a positive ID of your specific dino strain(s) via DNA, a profile of the major strains of bacteria living in your system (and in particular, what bacteria are living in symbiosis with the dinos), and a thorough analysis of your tank chemistry. Then, armed with that data and PhD's in marine microbiology and organic chemistry, you could develop a specific plan of attack. But you'd have to continually monitor all those parameters as you began the treatment regimen and modify it as you go, because the tank is a complex organic system and will react in unpredictable ways. This is no doubt a lot like the world oncologists live in.
When it comes down to it, practical knowledge and experience are far more useful than theory in solving problems like this. Unfortunately, those come at the cost of great pain over time. But look at it this way - if you beat them, someone will eventually be asking YOU for advice about dinos in their tank!
