Dinoflagellates.

Has anyone tried ....

Has anyone tried ....

I don't have dinos, but I stop in now and then to see how the fight is going. Today I was reading a thread here and on another forum about micro bubbling, basically making lots of very fine bubbles at night when your lights are off as a means of cleaning the tank of organics. Some users had reported that it was effective for them against dinos. That is when I thought of you guys :)

The technique comes from Elegant Corals. All it takes is a wooden air stone, air pump and a timer. For dinos one user mentioned he also dosed bacteria in addition to the micro bubbling. No promises, but if you have tried everything else ...

Dennis
 
Welp, no time like the present...decided the first step would be to 'snow globe' the tank (Christmas is coming), so I mixed up two cups of kalk slurry using 2 tsp of kalk and dumped it in.

Ph went from 7.92 to 8.53.

Based on this article I am going to try this for a few days and see if it gets me anywhere.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/index.php

Nems are open, nothing appears stressed yet.

Also running about 100g of Red Sea carbon (started today) in case they puke up toxic crap in the tank. Hopefully save the snails. Might try to siphon out some tomorrow and do a partial small 2.5g water change(if I need to add water) and then re-dose kalk slurry to up Ph again. WTH...since they are sensitive to fresh water a little HYPO will not hurt anything, I will just siphon out the volume that I slurry in...easy enough.
 
dartier said:
I don't have dinos, but I stop in now and then to see how the fight is going. Today I was reading a thread here and on another forum about micro bubbling, basically making lots of very fine bubbles at night when your lights are off as a means of cleaning the tank of organics. Some users had reported that it was effective for them against dinos. That is when I thought of you guys :)

The technique comes from Elegant Corals. All it takes is a wooden air stone, air pump and a timer. For dinos one user mentioned he also dosed bacteria in addition to the micro bubbling. No promises, but if you have tried everything else ...

Dennis
Click to expand...

I tried this back when I had Dinos. I was really hoping this would work since the concept seemed promising. At the time one of my local reef club members had a thread about Nano bubbling. This reefer was talking directly with one of the Elegant Corals reps. Nano bubbling did absolutely nothing for my Dinos from a visual stand point.

After I spoke my peace on how bubbling simply did not work for Dinos, It was then stated by the Elegant coral rep that made his way to the forum that Nano bubbling alone does not get rid of Dinos. "Tease are not magic bubbles" is what he said. It was then revealed I had to purchase a few products from Elegant Corals in conjunction with the Nano bubbling in order for it to work :hmm3:(I did not).

In short the idea was out completion by bacteria and algae and such summed up by the rep as "Darwinism". Same idea we try by the dirty method, phyto, pods, bacteria and such. I'm not saying Nano bubbling in conjunction with the products they are selling won't work, I hope It does work and hope to hear from some fellow reefers on some success stories here if indeed it does. They have a detailed list of day by day steps to do in conjunction with the bubbling I saw back then.
I lost all interest in it since it was pitched to me as a simple home solution that you did not need to throw money at that people were not willing to try. Then I was told I needed to buy some products...
 
Next step for me is mulching them via a kalk/sodium hydroxide paste delivered by large syringe then siphoned out. May try this in a few days if the elevated PH does not do anything.

Going to get medieval on their little butts.
 
So far so good, nothing appears stressed, and both of my fighting conchs came out of the sand bed to assist (I hope)-wonder if the lowered CO2 levels have something to do with this.

I hit with Kalk slurry last night...got my Ph up to about 8.5, this morning I hit it again good and my ph is 8.85. To lower some of the water level in the sump from the slurry I vacuumed a portion of the sand bed. I got a photo of one of the red worms that are running around the sand bed. I don't know if they have anything to do with the Amphidinium, but they were observed by another member during his outbreak.

Got to step out of the house for a bit, so I have a calc drip running, it's interesting that ph drops pretty quick after adding the slurry. The article in reef keeping says die off is pretty good at 8.6 to 8.8 and slower from 8.4-8.5, so I think I am going to try to keep it at 8.4+ with occasionally steps above 8.6 every few days.

Surprisingly the water is clear.

War photos...

4E2DEB0C-14F4-496B-B1FA-6551EB5CCBCF_zpspujpamjf.jpg


1F0156C3-3432-459C-9F94-EAC37ED5E447_zpsp9yxm7ia.jpg
 
There is an interesting thread in another forum where people are throwing all types of stuff at different types of dinos-from metro to household bleach.

Two members on that thread have what look to be Amphidinium populations on the sandbed. Their fix..vacumm the bed, reduce lighting to 4-6 hours, bottle of dr tim's, introduce pods and plankton. Repeat every few days as long as there are visible populations on the sand.

This seems like a pretty non-invasive way to do things. Going to try this when the goods arrive prior to using meds or caustic solutions.
 
The fact my dinos have stayed at almost undetectable levels for weeks is insignificant compared to the positive side effects that followed their departure.
I'm not going into any details here on Reef Central, but I find it very likely that harboring a dino bloom in your home will affect your mental health.

I've felt this positive side effect on my vacations away from home, but as you know vacations are relaxing and nice so even though I suspected the dinos I could not come forward with this earlier. It took two weeks, after I got the dinos under control, for me to be convinced my mental capability was improving noticeably in several areas so now is the time to come forward with this.

Some of the effects of the Ostreopsis dinoflagellates neuro-toxins on humans is well known and to name a few like breathing problems, eye irritation and death one can see dinos are well capable to cause harm. It should not come as a surprise that they can cause several other illnesses that have not been well documented or researched yet and the brain is all about neurons so why should it be excluded? I know about mold in homes and how it effects those that are exposed to it long term and I see many similarities between these two.

How the dinos get from the tank into the human body is anyones guess, but I can think of a few ways like into your lungs with mist from the surface and skimmer, dried out filter socks and evaporated seawater out of the tank. If you are doing micro bubbles this is amplified exponentially. Then there is entry through the mouth and the eyes with smearing from fingers, skin and clothes.

The effect could creep in so slowly it is not noticed and we are not yet publicly aware of that dinoflagellates can diminish our brains processes so we just don't have a clue when it settles in.

This is probably the most important discovery I've ever made and I think it has to be heard, discussed and proven so please spread these words.
 
I read through some of this thread but man is it long.

Looking for recommendations for my scenario. I have a 30 gallon. Dinos are pretty minimal but enough to keep attaching to my zoas and preventing them to open. What approach should I take and how drastic?

Thanks!
 
So, about a week into this, done a few days of the high pH thing, also did a wc. I will also note a couple observations.

1) I put in a magnetic frag rack to keep some small frags away from the bulldozer snails. I noticed this rack, which is up high to get a lot of light and no access from CUC...well, dino loves loves loves it. I would assume that this is because there is nothing walking on it, disrupting it's growth or molesting it in any way.

Since dino is in our systems just not all at 'ugly' levels. Could a dino 'outbreak' in a tank be because there is not enough natural movement of water and creatures to keep it from settling in a spot and 'getting ugly'? Stirring it up might help push it into the filter socks and skimmer, where it can be exported and the tank be kept looking decent.


2. Since my conchs are now off strike and back at work, the sandbed looks wonderful. This observation also kinda supports what I see on the frag rack above. I do think they eat the dino, but with a microscope and dissecting one, I will not know. Might try it at one point. I did order some FL and MEX cerith snails.

My tank has been fish free since July. There are some inverts in there that I target feed about once a week. I have been keeping fish free b/c of QT new fishes and getting a good fallow period prior (>4 months) to introducing fish. I had a minimal CUC - 9 snails, 2 conchs, couple shrimp. I think this practice has accelerated the problem quite a bit-too little going on results in a habitat where the dino can overpopulate and not be harassed.

One thing is bugging me though. After introducing GFO a few weeks back I had a strong die-off of GHA and my pH range dropped. With this I started seeing the dino. This goes in the too clean category and kinda follows the 'I made habitat for them' thought. So, I ordered a ball of cheato and some shaving brush macro. The cheato is going in the sump and the shaving brush is pretty enough to go in the DT. I also dumped a bag of pods in the tank. A little GHA is not bad, but when we start taking stuff to the extreme with ultra low PO4 then we can expect the lowest common denominator life forms to move in.

Anyway, just some thoughts and observations. I will chime back in after I double up on CUC and get the plants in the tank.
 
Well, a few things I have done have visually eliminated the substrate buildup of what I thought to be Amphidinium.

1) Took GFO offline, was probably using too much too fast, and this brought my PO4 down big time, which probably allowed the Amphidinium to move into place because they were not competing with the upper algae types. Since taking GFO offline I am getting more green stuff on the rocks and my PO4 today was .27. I was running almost 1/4 c + and changing regularly every few days, did get the PO4 down under .07, but with it appeared the Amphidinium.

2) Changed carbon, running Seachem Purigen.

3) Added a bag of Pods. Added some Dr. Tims. Added some Phyto. Added some macro in the fuge.

4) Used Kalk over a few random days to bring pH up to 8.6-8.8 during lit period. Did this for 4 days with a break in between.

I doubt it's gone, but the environment has changed and is holding it back from being ugly.

One odd thing, I did add a frag rack, and that is pretty high in the tank and it is getting a dusting of a different brown bubbling dino. I think this stuff like to go to an environment that it does not have to compete in.
 
Many of your tests will end up in the gray zone rather than to have an actual result.
Do post your findings and especially if they are useful for the community.
 
I've been doing a series of tests on marine snow, debris, detritus and have to agree on what scientists say about it's part in the natural dinoflagellate blooms.

Even though I've seen dinos sitting on bare rocks the most common places they settle in is where there is organic debris. So this adds to the other parameters we have discussed frequently.

Here is an awesome photo that shows what dinos are doing when they are free swimming.
This has to be the same stuff that binds the dinos in mats.

https://youtu.be/4WB-NNS84Eg?t=2963
 
DNA said:
I've been doing a series of tests on marine snow, debris, detritus and have to agree on what scientists say about it's part in the natural dinoflagellate blooms.

Even though I've seen dinos sitting on bare rocks the most common places they settle in is where there is organic debris. So this adds to the other parameters we have discussed frequently.

Here is an awesome photo that shows what dinos are doing when they are free swimming.
This has to be the same stuff that binds the dinos in mats.

https://youtu.be/4WB-NNS84Eg?t=2963
Click to expand...

I will check it out. On a slow connection tonight...but will get to it.

It's interesting how Jason has taken his tank in and out of bloom a few times. For me, this just shows how one of us with dino/cyano/gha, can take or change one variable to the extreme thinking it's good for the tank, and something else quickly falls into it's place in the ecosystem.

I think a large part of my Amphidinium bloom was the use of GFO over the previous month. I was beating down a .5+ppm and I think I graciously overdid it too quickly and it was replaced by the bloom. I did manage to kill back all the GHA pretty quick.

Anyway, I added some GFO back in the reactor, to see if I can repeat the same thing...ha.
 
man no wonder my mental stability and my cognitive functions have deteriorated since my osteo exploded. and continue on after gotten rig of them with dosing of Vibrant. I think the dino toxin will linger on and our liver or kidney isn't able to metabolize it. Wondering if anyone has examine the half life of of this substance.
 
So my tank is pretty much covered in dinos. I've had reefs for 12 years, and never had them. My current tank is a 120, but the bulk of the rock I've had for 9 years. It moved from a 40 to a 65 to a 60 and now to my 120. I've added dry base along the way. Moved into this 120 when we moved houses and the tank was beautiful for about two months until these nasties invaded. Since then my snails have died and my coral health has gone down the tubes.

I suspected they were dinos, but today my wife who is a teacher borrowed some microscopes from the science teacher at her school. I managed to maneuver my iphone to get some photos of these nasty things. Here is the best one. Does anyone know what species I'm dealing with here?

IMG_0849.jpg



Here is a link to get the original image if that helps

https://postimg.org/image/5zs7cw9np/
 
trmiv: At least they are are not Ostis and they move so fast it looks like the videos are sped up.
What ever you have is toxic so take precautions.

african gray: I don't think anyone has even made this connection between dinos and mental health, but it has been done with mold and the symptoms can vary wildly on members of the same household.
 
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