Disaster can blindside you...

Sk8r

Staff member
RC Mod
Did me. Main pump just quietly cut out. It's an Iwaki---they can decouple the impeller core to protect themselves, while continuing to run. But not pumping. So sounds the same, but water's not moving. We think the power did a soft-glitch and stalled the pump.

Lost the tank. We've been working outside on a project and collapsing exhausted in the evening after supper, and just didn't realize what was going on.

One survivor, who also survived our 8-day winter power-out with snowstorm with no generator. That's one tough fish. Also at nearly 5", and a domino-type damsel, a dascyllus, not the fish you can slip new roommates in on without her taking exception---think largest-possible maroon clown: same disposition. So I'm going to have to catch her and hold her in the sump during re-colonizing the main tank, and she is not going to be happy in a 10x10" space---plenty of oxygenation and flow through, but not a whole lot of swimming space. It's the only place to put her while I let other fishes establish territory. Going to move some rock around, too, to remove her landmarks. I think she is going to just have the big tank to herself until I can get time and focus to deal with this. But heck-darn-it-all. I probably would have lost her too except the heater also glitched out, and the tank hit 72 degrees (cold water holds more oxygen than warm)...Corals can take this sort of thing better than fishes. I've used a combo of Prime and Polyfilter to try to handle the ammonia and consequent chemistry---no way to extract the demised ones, naturally well under the rockwork. I have to trust the cleanup crew.
 
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Wow, I'm so very sorry to hear this! I do hope you can make the best of it all and get things back to normal as much as possible.
 
Oh man. Sorry to hear. It is amazing how fragile these systems can be and how reliant they are on our electrics/mechanics working properly.
 
Thank you all. I mention it, because there's always a series of unfortunate events that causes these things, not usually a single cause, but y'know, the sneaky sort of pump-glitch (pump is completely fine, thank goodness!) sort of leaves you beating yourself up for not figuring it faster. But sometimes, well, you just have to figure what you can and decide how to get past it. I'm hoping I can hold the big gal long enough in that small sump area to deal with new fishes, but if I can't I'll talk to the lfs about taking her---placing a near 5" damsel is not easy, placing a near-5" anything is not easy, but she's showy gold and white, and most people think she's a marine angel. I think she'll make it, one way or the other. I'm just going to wait til summer projects and the kitchen remodel is done before trying to take on any new fish.
 
One piece of advice: if you have a pump that decouples the impeller to protect it from burning or locking up---if you've never seen this happen, put a 'pump running but nothing moving' in your 'can-happen' databank. The only clue was what looked like a minor and inconsequential over-fill from a new topoff unit...ie, with no water moving the sump was in a pump-off condition. Due to the fact I'm still adjusting the topoff---I didn't twig to it.
 
Your unfortunate mishap got me to thinking about redundancy in larger setups and since I'm still learning my new 2016 Apex and what all it can do, I started thinking in terms of how one could use the Apex to alert us to this condition and even divert the disaster. This is in no way intended to say "you should have done this", it's simply me thinking out loud through what happened to you. And all instances of "you" is meant in the plural form...

Monitoring Situation
The easiest way to monitor if your pump is actually pumping would be with the Neptune Systems Flow Monitoring Kit (FMK). The Apex would be setup with an alarm that gets emailed/texted to you should the flow from the pump stop or greatly reduce.

Diverting the disaster
This is where things can get costly in terms of money and space. If you were to have a backup return pump plumbed into your system, you could program the Apex to turn on the outlet that your backup pump is plug into, thus restoring prop water flow to the system. Now, I know nothing about pumps that decouple the impeller, so maybe this would not work on one of them.

While this solution is not very cost friendly and would require extra room, it could save a larger tank from this type of disaster. I'm personally just getting my first SW system underway (only a 60g Cube) so I don't have money/space/need for anything like this now, but the wife and I have already started talking about a larger setup to allow us to have more of the fish types we really like. I think I'll figure all of this into that build when the time comes.
 
Is this protective function something that a restart corrects it or is it a dead pump?

My return pump is an Iwaki 100 and my sump is in the basement and with head pressure the flow is 634. I have a possible backup with a Mag 12 but not sure it can handle the head pressure.
 
Thank you all. I mention it, because there's always a series of unfortunate events that causes these things, not usually a single cause, but y'know, the sneaky sort of pump-glitch (pump is completely fine, thank goodness!) sort of leaves you beating yourself up for not figuring it faster. But sometimes, well, you just have to figure what you can and decide how to get past it. I'm hoping I can hold the big gal long enough in that small sump area to deal with new fishes, but if I can't I'll talk to the lfs about taking her---placing a near 5" damsel is not easy, placing a near-5" anything is not easy, but she's showy gold and white, and most people think she's a marine angel. I think she'll make it, one way or the other. I'm just going to wait til summer projects and the kitchen remodel is done before trying to take on any new fish.

Just a suggestion because you have a basement sump and may have the room for it. A 29 gallon (petco should have the dollar a gallon sale right now) drilled with a small return pump and cheap powerhead (if the pump is small) should not cost too much to set up. (odds are like many of us you probably have a random pump and a spare power head) If you or someone local to you can drill it you could get it set up on the cheap and keep the fish plumbed into the system until you get everything settled again. Still not an ideal space but better than a sump compartment.
 
One piece of advice: if you have a pump that decouples the impeller to protect it from burning or locking up---if you've never seen this happen, put a 'pump running but nothing moving' in your 'can-happen' databank. The only clue was what looked like a minor and inconsequential over-fill from a new topoff unit...ie, with no water moving the sump was in a pump-off condition. Due to the fact I'm still adjusting the topoff---I didn't twig to it.

FWIW, panworld pumps can do this as well. Recently added flow sensors, so got an alert .... but still.
 
When my return shuts off - for feeding - there is a noticeable drop of about 1/2 inch in the DT. I don't have a check valve in the line so the sump depth also noticeably increase - about 3-4 inches.
 
As these 'protective' pumps get older, and this one has been running steadily for 10 years,---they can get crankier about a quick restart. It took unplugging and plugging it in twice before it caught up the impeller core and ran like it was still new...They're great pumps.
A controller with that option would be a good idea with ANY sort of pump if you can swing it...
Yesterday was the pits!
 
I actually have a piece of scotch tape on the front of the tank which marks my water level of the DT. It just gives me a quick look at the water level as I pass by the tank. It really doesn't take away the look of the tank because it's transparent tape. Just a thought.
 
I use the same. I'm working with a new topoff unit and knew the level was high but attributed it to a sensor adjustment. Perfect storm....
 
Did me. Main pump just quietly cut out. It's an Iwaki---they can decouple the impeller core to protect themselves, while continuing to run. But not pumping. So sounds the same, but water's not moving. We think the power did a soft-glitch and stalled the pump.

Lost the tank. We've been working outside on a project and collapsing exhausted in the evening after supper, and just didn't realize what was going on.

One survivor, who also survived our 8-day winter power-out with snowstorm with no generator. That's one tough fish. Also at nearly 5", and a domino-type damsel, a dascyllus, not the fish you can slip new roommates in on without her taking exception---think largest-possible maroon clown: same disposition. So I'm going to have to catch her and hold her in the sump during re-colonizing the main tank, and she is not going to be happy in a 10x10" space---plenty of oxygenation and flow through, but not a whole lot of swimming space. It's the only place to put her while I let other fishes establish territory. Going to move some rock around, too, to remove her landmarks. I think she is going to just have the big tank to herself until I can get time and focus to deal with this. But heck-darn-it-all. I probably would have lost her too except the heater also glitched out, and the tank hit 72 degrees (cold water holds more oxygen than warm)...Corals can take this sort of thing better than fishes. I've used a combo of Prime and Polyfilter to try to handle the ammonia and consequent chemistry---no way to extract the demised ones, naturally well under the rockwork. I have to trust the cleanup crew.

First, my condolences on the loss, we all know it's never a good feeling.

I just have to ask- and I mean no harm in asking, I'm asking of pure ignorance-

Your return pump essentially stopped mumping, and in turn your livestock died? Are you saying the pump had not been turning over water for days, hours or what? I'm just confused by what it was exactly that was so detrimental.
 
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