Disgusting LFS and Ich

[rjjr1963]

I have a 40 breeder reef tank that has been set up about a year. I have two clowns, a wrasse and a goby. These guys have all been in there about a year and I've just been adding coral along the way.

I bought some frags at this **** hole LFS and within a couple days I found an acropora eating crab munching on some of my coral. It must have hitchhike in on one of the frags. If that wasn't bad enough tonight I'm looking at my wrasse and he has a pretty severe outbreak of ich, white dots all over.

The wrasse is acting as normal. I fed him very well tonight and he has a voracious appetite. I know about all the treatment methods but I was wondering if there is something I can do for him to help fight this thing that is safe in a reef tank.

The way I see it the tank is infected and will have to go fallow for some time. I'm concerned about the other fish getting ich but I'm not sure what to do about them. I'm tempted to leave everyone where they are and hope they can withstand the attack.

Any advice is appreciated.

 

[AlSimmons]

Time?

 

[Dr. Reef]

if you have identified ich positively then its in your tank and its not going away as long as there are fish hosting it.i would take all fish out and qt them then treat them with few well known and discussed and tried methods mentioned on this website.
leaving things as is may not fix anything.

 

[tkeracer619]

It's a good idea to qt anything wet.

How long ago have you added the frags? Are you 1000% it is crypto?

Are you sure the crab wasn't symbiotic? There is such a thing as good acro crabs.

 

[Betaktical]

Disgusting LFS and Ich

I am facing same thing. Wrasse is the only who has ich. He go to a point to where he had it pretty moderately and I thought he wasn't going to make it. A month later still ich free and I know it's still in the tank. Added a yellow watchman and it never touched him. Wrasses can be fragile. if you can't qt, you don't have that many fish in the tank really affect a budget so if you want leave him no harm no foul. It might just cause more stress to qt


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[rjjr1963]

It's a good idea to qt anything wet.

How long ago have you added the frags? Are you 1000% it is crypto?

Are you sure the crab wasn't symbiotic? There is such a thing as good acro crabs.

I added the frags about a week ago and I'm pretty sure it's crypto.

Yes I am sure he was a nasty Hairy Blue Eyed Crab that I caught munching on my acropora a number of times before I could catch him and he left a number of branches bare

I dip all my corals but apparently that isn't enough. How long should I quarantine them.

 

[rjjr1963]

I am facing same thing. Wrasse is the only who has ich. He go to a point to where he had it pretty moderately and I thought he wasn't going to make it. A month later still ich free and I know it's still in the tank. Added a yellow watchman and it never touched him. Wrasses can be fragile. if you can't qt, you don't have that many fish in the tank really affect a budget so if you want leave him no harm no foul. It might just cause more stress to qt


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I'm wondering what I need to do to turn the clock back about a week with a nice clean tank. I can tear down the tank clean and restart it but now that my fish have ich I'm not sure how to completely eliminate it from them.

 

[Betaktical]

I'm wondering what I need to do to turn the clock back about a week with a nice clean tank. I can tear down the tank clean and restart it but now that my fish have ich I'm not sure how to completely eliminate it from them.

2 different ways. I have chosen to let mine fight it as I don't have room for qt at the moment. 16 more days left!! Lol or if you have an available proper qt setup, quarantine. Up to you if you want to qt or not


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[Grimreaperz]

There are many ways to rid fish of ICH...this is why I do TTM to all new arrivals....you can do TTM with a wrasse it my not do to well...you could copper treat but again with a wrasse not recommended....I would say TTM is the safer out of those 2 options. If you have 2 5g buckets
2 heaters (most expensive)
and a bunch of air line and stones (this is cheap at any pet store)
Read the TTM article and try that...the theory is you are ridding the tank of the eggs the adults drop so no new parasites can hatch...and eventually the parasite infecting the fish will die from natural life cycle. It takes 12 days and some effort but is the quickest certain way to rid any fish of ICH. Could also try formalin dips and a list of other chemical treatments...but TTM (tank transfer method) may be the best way.

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[AlSimmons]

QT aside, I would just ride it out... It's going to cost you money no matter what, but a happy healthy environment does have some healing properties to it. FWIW I've been in this hobby for a long time and I've never QT anything, yet everything seems to work out for some reason. Luck? I don't think so at this point.

The link below might help. No "shotgun buys."

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/ft/index.php

 

[pisanoal]

There are many ways to rid fish of ICH...this is why I do TTM to all new arrivals....you can do TTM with a wrasse it my not do to well...you could copper treat but again with a wrasse not recommended....I would say TTM is the safer out of those 2 options. If you have 2 5g buckets
2 heaters (most expensive)
and a bunch of air line and stones (this is cheap at any pet store)
Read the TTM article and try that...the theory is you are ridding the tank of the eggs the adults drop so no new parasites can hatch...and eventually the parasite infecting the fish will die from natural life cycle. It takes 12 days and some effort but is the quickest certain way to rid any fish of ICH. Could also try formalin dips and a list of other chemical treatments...but TTM (tank transfer method) may be the best way.

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Not sure why you think a wrasse will not do well in TTM or copper? Some wrasses might be copper sensitive, but as long as you are careful to go slow with concentration increases, it will be fine. And TTM is considered very safe for just about any fish.

 

[Grimreaperz]

Not sure why you think a wrasse will not do well in TTM or copper? Some wrasses might be copper sensitive, but as long as you are careful to go slow with concentration increases, it will be fine. And TTM is considered very safe for just about any fish.

Yes I just know wrasses are fragile fish....and it may not react or do as well as say a clownfish would....and given the fact it is already infected and stressed...this could be to much for the fish...but as I stated is probably the best option...I have seen several threads regarding wrasses and copper....and not to do it...due to how fragile the fish is...that is why I recommended TTM...just warning that it does cause stress and the wrasse may not fair well if it is already stressed from infection.....not sure what your post has to do with the OPs issue.....

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[pisanoal]

Easy there... It has as much relevance as does yours. The op has a wrasse with ich. You discussed points of ich treatment methods as did others as did I... Certain wrasses can be fragile, others are extremely hardy. Most people accept that certain species are sensitive to copper and that the two ways to handle that are to take a few extra days to get to treatment level and be very cautious not to exceed recommended dosages, or to do TTM. To warn that TTM could cause issues with the wrasse is counterproductive to the OP as it's widely considered, the least stressful method of eliminating ich as long as proper protocol is followed (which it should be wether it's a wrasse or a damsel). If I had a sensitive species of wrasse such as a leopard wrasse, it would be what I would use instead of copper. And for what it's worth, most people mean cupramine now when they speak of Copper treatment which has less sensitivity issues, even though people still use the same knowledge base of sensitive fish.

OP. What kind of wrasse do you have?

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[anthonys51]

how can you blame the lfs for ich and hitchhiker. are you serious. all stores have ich, these are wild caught fish and corals for the most part. You also said you dipped, what did you dip with water? plus dont you look at your frags and corals closely before putting into tank, how can you not notice a crab on a tiny frag. no store is immune to hitchhikers, diseases, parasites, none . You are an adult, you are responsible for what goes into your own tank

take this as a learning experience and realize you didn't do all you can or should of done to stop this invasion, or you can put all the blame on the lfs and be doomed to fail again

and before you say i been buying fish and corals for years and this never happened to me before, just because you got away with something for years doesnt make it a good idea. i been smoking cigarettes for 40 years and i am healthy as a horse, so they must be good for you.

 

[ericarenee]

There really is no other option then this

1. TTM For the ich and Q.T ALL FISH For 72 days.. and everything you buy from now on and learning..
2. skip the TTM and do hypo salinity with elevated heat. (what i would do ) You gotta go fowlr anyway.. by time the tank is safe so will the fish be...

Leaving it alone is really NOT A OPTION...

 

[anthonys51]

There really is no other option then this

1. TTM For the ich and Q.T ALL FISH For 72 days.. and everything you buy from now on and learning..
2. skip the TTM and do hypo salinity with elevated heat. (what i would do ) You gotta go fowlr anyway.. by time the tank is safe so will the fish be...

Leaving it alone is really NOT A OPTION...

Not saying he should leave alone. Don't know enough about his tank or water parameters to make that decision. But I had my tank up for 3 years never qt a single fish and never lost a fish to ich. So it can be done when I Added a nee fish I have had tiny outbreaks of ich Ny wrasses get it every time. But the fish fought though it. A few spots of ich I think some fish if fat healthy will fight though it. Plus after 9 months in tank without introducing new fish studies show ich will die So it is possible to do nothing and have fish survive ich. But I would step in if I saw the ich spots getting more and more


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[ericarenee]

Not saying he should leave alone. Don't know enough about his tank or water parameters to make that decision. But I had my tank up for 3 years never qt a single fish and never lost a fish to ich. So it can be done when I Added a nee fish I have had tiny outbreaks of ich Ny wrasses get it every time. But the fish fought though it. A few spots of ich I think some fish if fat healthy will fight though it. Plus after 9 months in tank without introducing new fish studies show ich will die So it is possible to do nothing and have fish survive ich. But I would step in if I saw the ich spots getting more and more


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I have read quite a few people who say they have had ich on a few fish with a few spots and the fish fight it off. This i agree can happen. I also agree that for some reason sometimes it can just go away.
My thinking is he said white spots all over that makes me think his tank is not mature or stable enough to keep the fish stress and illness free to over come the parasite. Fish in the ocean do get ich and fight it off. But i think that is mostly because of the vast open waters.

I also think ich is sometimes misread for other issues at times as well.
for me i would rather be safe now then sorry later..

So i somewhat agree it can Happen ...

 

[anthonys51]

I have read quite a few people who say they have had ich on a few fish with a few spots and the fish fight it off. This i agree can happen. I also agree that for some reason sometimes it can just go away.
My thinking is he said white spots all over that makes me think his tank is not mature or stable enough to keep the fish stress and illness free to over come the parasite. Fish in the ocean do get ich and fight it off. But i think that is mostly because of the vast open waters.

I also think ich is sometimes misread for other issues at times as well.
for me i would rather be safe now then sorry later..

So i somewhat agree it can Happen ...

yes that is great advice. you normally respond with great advice

 

[rjjr1963]

Easy there... It has as much relevance as does yours. The op has a wrasse with ich. You discussed points of ich treatment methods as did others as did I... Certain wrasses can be fragile, others are extremely hardy. Most people accept that certain species are sensitive to copper and that the two ways to handle that are to take a few extra days to get to treatment level and be very cautious not to exceed recommended dosages, or to do TTM. To warn that TTM could cause issues with the wrasse is counterproductive to the OP as it's widely considered, the least stressful method of eliminating ich as long as proper protocol is followed (which it should be wether it's a wrasse or a damsel). If I had a sensitive species of wrasse such as a leopard wrasse, it would be what I would use instead of copper. And for what it's worth, most people mean cupramine now when they speak of Copper treatment which has less sensitivity issues, even though people still use the same knowledge base of sensitive fish.

OP. What kind of wrasse do you have?

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It's a McCosker's Flasher Wrasse

 

[rjjr1963]

how can you blame the lfs for ich and hitchhiker. are you serious. all stores have ich, these are wild caught fish and corals for the most part.

Because I had neither before I bought their products.

You also said you dipped, what did you dip with water?

Yes, water and Seachem Reef Dip.

plus dont you look at your frags and corals closely before putting into tank, how can you not notice a crab on a tiny frag

.

I don't believe he came in on a tiny frag. I bought a larger plate coral with a rocky underside and I believe he was hiding in there.

no store is immune to hitchhikers, diseases, parasites, none . You are an adult, you are responsible for what goes into your own tank

Absolutely but I do expect a retail frag tank to be free of something as nasty as an acropora eating crab. I've been buying coral for almost a year now and have not had a problem until I went to this store. From now on all coral gets QT.

and before you say i been buying fish and corals for years and this never happened to me before, just because you got away with something for years doesnt make it a good idea.

Only about a year at this point.